GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART III

[WTFMAN99]

Sandin has produced 9 points in 26 GP with less TOI than Chychrun while Chychrun only has 7 pts in 26GP

Sandin is producing at a 28 point pace and Chychrun paced for approx 34 points at the same age, although that was his 4th season.

Our left side of defense is just fine, no need to blow the bank for something we really don't need. If Chychrun was a right shot, you definitely make a big offer but burning some big trade chips in 1 shot isn't a smart idea.

 

[Kurtz]

Chychrun seems to be really overrated on these boards based on one possibly outlier season.

Btw, he's -29 in 26 games this season. I know +/- is a dodgy stat, but that's a remarkable result.

 

[horner]

Why not have both on the top pair?

PP1
Nylander Marner Matthews
Reilly Chychryn

PP2
Bunting Tavares Kase
Liljegren Sandin

Sandin will be included in any trade for Chychryn.

 

[horner]

Chychrun seems to be really overrated on these boards based on one possibly outlier season.

Btw, he's -29 in 26 games this season. I know +/- is a dodgy stat, but that's a remarkable result.

I agree
Career numbers
316 48 80 128 -55 201

He has had one great season
2020-21
56 18 23 41 -6 42

They aren't the type of numbers that I want to give up alot for.

Sandin will be going the other way.

Question
Is he much better than Sandin ?

 

[WTFMAN99]

I agree
Career numbers
316 48 80 128 -55 201

He has had one great season
2020-21
56 18 23 41 -6 42

They aren't the type of numbers that I want to give up alot for.

Sandin will be going the other way.

Question
Is he much better than Sandin ?

I think by the time Sandin is 23...the gap will be not so wide and definitely not worthy of the additional futures people want to send out with Sandin.

I would pay a lot for a quality top 4 RHD under control at a decent age but as it stands, Chychrun isn't the ideal fit.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't mind Holl as a #6-#7
Its #4 I have an issue with

Agreed if they don't need the cap space. He makes too much for that role.

 

[LeafChief]

Chychrun has gotten so overrated on this board it's incredible. He isn't Makar.

 

[justashadowof]

The Leafs need a Muzzin type for playoff hockey. Muzzin is showing signs of breaking down. I don't want to lean too heavily on the player if it's at all possible.

I'm not sure about this Chychrun player. Why in the world would Arizona be shopping a 23 year old under contract for a reasonable amount of money until 2025? Why have they soured on him? Is it because he's oft-injured? Surely this is normally the type of player you keep around during a rebuild.

 

[Legion34]

The Leafs need a Muzzin type for playoff hockey. Muzzin is showing signs of breaking down. I don't want to lean too heavily on the player if it's at all possible.

I'm not sure about this Chychrun player. Why in the world would Arizona be shopping a 23 year old under contract for a reasonable amount of money until 2025? Why have they soured on him? Is it because he's oft-injured? Surely this is normally the type of player you keep around during a rebuild.

There are rumours he has asked out.

 

[Cor]

Chychrun should command a Muzzin type return IMO. He’s not on the level Muzzin was when we acquired him, but he is younger and has the potential to get there.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Chychrun should command a Muzzin type return IMO. He’s not on the level Muzzin was when we acquired him, but he is younger and has the potential to get there.

I think he’s worth more than Muzzin since he’s on a longer contract.

 

[TMLAM34]

I’d be very hesitant to give up Sandin.

 

[ToneDog]

I’d be very hesitant to give up Sandin.

Will be interesting to see how Sandy and Lily do in the playoffs. Kyper said he'd put on a bib for Christmas dinner if he were going up against them as a 3rd pair. No doubt whoever we play will challenge them.

 

[Cor]

I think he’s worth more than Muzzin since he’s on a longer contract.

Sure, that adds value. But Muzzin was still the much better player at time of trade.

I still would only give up maybe marginally more than we gave up for Muzzin, but not much.

Chychrun isn’t an established product yet. He’s struggled with health, and consistency this year, and is once again having a poor year. (Even when you look relative to the team)

 

[SprDaVE]

I’d be very hesitant to give up Sandin.

It's not happening for someone like Chychrun and in the Leafs situation.

 

[mydnyte]

Chychrun seems to be really overrated on these boards based on one possibly outlier season.

Btw, he's -29 in 26 games this season. I know +/- is a dodgy stat, but that's a remarkable result.

+/- is actually a reasonable stat for d-men ...not as much for forwards. the majority of goals scored typically are the result of a defensive mistake of some sort.
some are minor (stick in the wrong spot), others blatant (not covering your man) ...but, most mistakes are preventable.

 

[zeke]

Plus minus is garbage.

On a bad team, a bad plus minus just means you're one of the best players on the team playing the biggest minutes against the top competition.

 

[francis246]

I agree
Career numbers
316 48 80 128 -55 201

He has had one great season
2020-21
56 18 23 41 -6 42

They aren't the type of numbers that I want to give up alot for.

Sandin will be going the other way.

Question
Is he much better than Sandin ?

I think he is much better than Sandin at this point in time, I dpn't think Chychrun is overrated. He's on a terrible team and for a couple of years was playing behind OEL. I think people are overrating what he'd actually get in a trade though. It's probably realistically going to cost any team (not just the leafs) way less than what people on HF Boards are suggesting. No one realistically goes for that.

The question isn't even about is he much better than Sandin, it's which player or player(s) gives us the best chance to win a cup immediately. Adding Chychrun or a player similar to him does that. We don't need a right handed defenseman per say. We need ANY defenseman who can play the right side and be good at it. Brodie is not a RHD and he's excellent at it. Many defenseman in the NHL are skilled at playing both sides.

I think we probably have one of the best forward groups in the NHL, we have options in the AHL to call up as well. I'd like to see us focus assets if we really have to to upgrade the defense.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Are we seriously saying no to a 23 year old d-man capable of 25 minutes? He won't need to be that high here either due to Rielly/Brodie pairing.

The only con on Jakob is the injury risk. Otherwise you don't say no to him as your no.2 LHD behind Rielly. He'd rack up points on our team. I'd put his floor at consistent 40 points, and probably sneak in a couple 60s. Lots of years left for him.

Let me just direct people to the Coyotes roster. Please tell me how many points Sandin has playing on this team @ 17 minutes a night (This doesn't mean I want Sandin going the other way, I just see his name used a lot above):

Arizona Coyotes Stats | 2021-2022

 

[Ashdown2]

Plus minus is garbage.

On a bad team, a bad plus minus just means you're one of the best players on the team playing the biggest minutes against the top competition.

yep ........ its a joke stat ..

sandin would be -60 on that team

 

[hockeynorth]

Rielly-Brodie
Chychrun-Liljegren
Sandin-Muzzin

is a much better blueline that we currently have

 

[TMLAM34]

Rielly-Brodie
Chychrun-Liljegren
Sandin-Muzzin

is a much better blueline that we currently have

Muzzin on the right side was horrible. He’s also having a not so stellar season to begin with on his strong side, moving him to the right would be a bad idea. If anything Chychrun would move to the right as he actually has experience playing there in the past.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think he is much better than Sandin at this point in time, I dpn't think Chychrun is overrated. He's on a terrible team and for a couple of years was playing behind OEL. I think people are overrating what he'd actually get in a trade though. It's probably realistically going to cost any team (not just the leafs) way less than what people on HF Boards are suggesting. No one realistically goes for that.

The question isn't even about is he much better than Sandin, it's which player or player(s) gives us the best chance to win a cup immediately. Adding Chychrun or a player similar to him does that. We don't need a right handed defenseman per say. We need ANY defenseman who can play the right side and be good at it. Brodie is not a RHD and he's excellent at it. Many defenseman in the NHL are skilled at playing both sides.

I think we probably have one of the best forward groups in the NHL, we have options in the AHL to call up as well. I'd like to see us focus assets if we really have to to upgrade the defense.

On the flip side, many defensemen and even forwards struggle playing their off-side. Muzzin and Rielly struggled badly as a pairing because neither could play the right as well as they did on their natural side. Brodie has had many many many years of playing RD as a leftie.

I don't really count Junior as a reason to say Chychrun can play his off-side just like Marner isn't a center at the NHL level just because he played it in Junior.

It's most certainly something to keep in mind and not just tossing it to the side as an after thought.

I think we all like Chychrun as a player around here but the cost to acquire is far too high for his efficiency, which isn't even that impressive, and also his handedness. Let's not forget that his cap hit isn't overly easy to fit either. We're entering Seth Jones levels of assets to acquire and that's ... not good.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Rielly-Brodie
Chychrun-Liljegren
Sandin-Muzzin

is a much better blueline that we currently have

Also one that would put the leafs in a tricky spot cap wise with big raise to Campbell coming up this summer then Matthews/Nylander not too long after that.

 

[Fogelhund]

Chychrun is a very good Cored top four, maybe top pairing D, at 23. He's got size, skating and can play physical. He's got a great shot, can man the PP, and the PK.

Now, having said all, some people have overrated him, based on last years points totals. He was used very heavily offensively last year, and with Ghost on the team now, it's much more balanced. Ghost is getting the prime offensive opportunities now, as he's more talented offensively. Similarly, Rielly would be ahead of Chychrun here.

Chychrun played RD in Junior, and is capable of playing either side... so that's not a problem.

To me, if he's available, it just comes down to cost. He's worth more than Muzzin cost.. but I don't think it's elite D cost either. If Arizona wants such a package... too bad, we aren't paying that. Arizona fans think he's worth the world.