GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART III

[LeafChief]

Yes, I am well aware that Chychrun is a LHD, but I'm not sure you are aware that he played the right side in junior and is actually more effective offensively playing on the right. Not to mention, a player of his caliber should adjust fairly easily, especially considering he's played the right before.

People need to get the idea of having a LHD-RHD for every pair out of their heads. Brodie is a perfect example of a LHD who plays the right and excels at it. Chychrun is a younger, faster, bigger, more skilled Brodie, and if added to our top 4 would probably give us a top 3 defense in the league, while having a top 3 offense and a top goalie.

Tampa for example has Hedman, McDonough and Sergechev in their top 4, all LHD, and I'm pretty sure they're not having any issues.

What position has Chychrun played at the NHL level?

I like Chychrun a lot and he would be an incredible addition but I'm not sure we should be spending assets on a player that plays a position of strength unless they are going to liquidate Muzzin for assets as well. Would make more sense to acquire a RD to replace Holl.

I'm well aware of what Chychrun did at the junior level. I watched a ton of his games with the Jr. Canadiens.

The thought process when the Leafs acquired Muzzin was that one of Muzzin or Rielly would move to the right. How did that work out?

People need to get the idea that a player can just switch to a different side of the ice and be as successful as on their dominant side.

 

[Kiwi]

Chychrun is young and cheap and signed to a long time. He's shown some great flashes as an exciting number one and he's only a year older than Liljegren, so a lot of things line up in terms of what the Leafs would want.

However, having been in win now mode for a couple of years and lost some organizational fat over the past few years, I'm not sold on the Leafs having the pieces to really get it done. Robertson and Amirov have missed a ton of time with injuries so they probably aren't must have assets from Arizona's POV. Having Rielly, Sandin, Chychryn, Dermott, Muzzin seems like too many LHD playing LHD. Liljegren is the more positionally scarce player. But I'm sure we'd all prefer to keep Sandin over Liljegren.

Not not sure on that

Sandin is a gifted puck mover who's probably going to put up points during his career but Liljegren is right handed, better defensively, has better mobility an may end up being a guy you trust on the ice in a one goal game in the last minute which also has extreme value for a team

Both have also looked ok on the 2nd pair over a very limited sample size as well this season

Trading either at this age will be a mistake imo
You get good homegrown defensive units by keeping your talented young defenseman rather than trading them

 

[Avilaj07]

What position has Chychrun played at the NHL level?

I like Chychrun a lot and he would be an incredible addition but I'm not sure we should be spending assets on a player that plays a position of strength unless they are going to liquidate Muzzin for assets as well. Would make more sense to acquire a RD to replace Holl.

I'm well aware of what Chychrun did at the junior level. I watched a ton of his games with the Jr. Canadiens.

The thought process when the Leafs acquired Muzzin was that one of Muzzin or Rielly would move to the right. How did that work out?

People need to get the idea that a player can just switch to a different side of the ice and be as successful as on their dominant side.

While I agree on the fact that moving Muzzin would be ideal if we got Chychrun, Chychrun has played on the right before.

When we acquired Muzzin, he never played on the right and Rielly was never successful in the right, both of which are opposite to Chychrun who has played on the right and was very successful. Not to mention, you're not asking a 30 year old Muzzin who isn't exactly the greatest skater or mobile to shift your asking a 24 year old great skater who is familiar with the side. Big difference I think

 

[Stephen]

Not not sure on that

Sandin is a gifted puck mover who's probably going to put up points during his career but Liljegren is right handed, better defensively, has better mobility an may end up being a guy you trust on the ice in a one goal game in the last minute which also has extreme value for a team

Both have also looked ok on the 2nd pair over a very limited sample size as well this season

Trading either at this age will be a mistake imo
You get good homegrown defensive units by keeping your talented young defenseman rather than trading them

I totally get why we'd want to keep Liljegren and Sandin and grow them and I'm not advocating dangling them.

But from a homegrown vs trade, age and upside point of view all I'm saying is Chychrun is a 1998 birthday, Liljegren is a 1999 birthday and Sandin is a 2000 birthday, so it's one of those unique situations where if we were to package our futures up, we'd actually be getting back a player virtually the same age.

 

[horner]

Chychrun is young and cheap and signed to a long time. He's shown some great flashes as an exciting number one and he's only a year older than Liljegren, so a lot of things line up in terms of what the Leafs would want.

However, having been in win now mode for a couple of years and lost some organizational fat over the past few years, I'm not sold on the Leafs having the pieces to really get it done. Robertson and Amirov have missed a ton of time with injuries so they probably aren't must have assets from Arizona's POV. Having Rielly, Sandin, Chychryn, Dermott, Muzzin seems like too many LHD playing LHD. Liljegren is the more positionally scarce player. But I'm sure we'd all prefer to keep Sandin over Liljegren.

Is he Good defensively ?

 

[TheShape]

I'd rather keep both Sandin and Liljegren, I'd say the pair are closer to being top 4 d-men sooner than some realize. But if you're forcing me to choose, I'd keep Liljegren. Fills a positional need on the right and all around I think he's the more sound of the two. Could hold his own on the PP also.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Chychrun has some intrigue on different fronts:

- he could become that big, physical top pairing d-man that we've longed for
- he could be a massive upgrade on the right side if he can transition back over

But for me, I think his 'floor' could be a replacement for Muzzin as Jake continues to age and decline on the left side on the second pair.

There could be other long term RHD options in Sandin too.

But a core D of Rielly, Chychrun, Sandin, and Liljegren as Brodie/Muzzin get older could be really strong for a lot of years.

 

[thusk]

While I agree on the fact that moving Muzzin would be ideal if we got Chychrun, Chychrun has played on the right before.

When we acquired Muzzin, he never played on the right and Rielly was never successful in the right, both of which are opposite to Chychrun who has played on the right and was very successful. Not to mention, you're not asking a 30 year old Muzzin who isn't exactly the greatest skater or mobile to shift your asking a 24 year old great skater who is familiar with the side. Big difference I think

I don't know where the leafs should to be better all around by trading his best d defensive side of the puck against, who playing against best opponent player and on every critical defensive situation vs an offensive dmen with some kind of struggle defensive side and who didn't prove he can play against top line but will give you.

Did you learn of the past? We will never win anything by thinking only by offensive and speed. Muzzin is not fast but hes hard to play against and he can shut down every player when hes playing at his best

 

[Stephen]

Is he Good defensively ?

Seems reputable defensively from what I piece together, but hard to say since he's played on a pretty anonymous losing team and it's easiest to focus on the flashy things like offense, transition and big hits that make it to a highlight reel. Aside from not having watched a lot of him, it's hard to get a read on whether he would be one of those defensemen who are developed on poor teams and comes with bad habits.

 

[LeafChief]

While I agree on the fact that moving Muzzin would be ideal if we got Chychrun, Chychrun has played on the right before.

When we acquired Muzzin, he never played on the right and Rielly was never successful in the right, both of which are opposite to Chychrun who has played on the right and was very successful. Not to mention, you're not asking a 30 year old Muzzin who isn't exactly the greatest skater or mobile to shift your asking a 24 year old great skater who is familiar with the side. Big difference I think

Like I said, I really like Chychrun. I'm just not sure the cost makes a lot of sense for the Leafs right now.

 

[Stephen]

Chychrun has some intrigue on different fronts:

- he could become that big, physical top pairing d-man that we've longed for
- he could be a massive upgrade on the right side if he can transition back over

But for me, I think his 'floor' could be a replacement for Muzzin as Jake continues to age and decline on the left side on the second pair.

There could be other long term RHD options in Sandin too.

But a core D of Rielly, Chychrun, Sandin, and Liljegren as Brodie/Muzzin get older could be really strong for a lot of years.

Yeah, basically you think of him as a younger, cheaper Muzzin with more offense and a lot of upside.

 

[hockeywiz542]

NHL Rumour Roundup: Is it almost time for the Oilers to make a move? - Sportsnet.ca

WHAT WILL BE THE FIRST BIG TRADE OF 2022?

While the second-to-last Canadiens contemplate changes big and small, the last overall Coyotes are definitely in tank mode and could sell any and all assets. Phil Kessel is the most obvious, a rental player with a Stanley Cup past.

But there's also Jakob Chychrun, a highly valuable 23-year-old defenceman with another three years remaining on his contract (and a very manageable $4.6 million cap hit). Usually, these are the types of players a rebuilding team would want to keep, but the Coyotes could get a haul for Chychrun and may see an opportunity to lean into the full rebuild even more with a trade here.

And this may be one we don't have to wait until the deadline to see play out.

"I think that's probably the first big deal of 2022 is Chychrun," Friedman said.

However, while the idea of trading a young, top-four, left-shot defenceman with term may seem to align exactly with Edmonton's needs -- the kind of situation that may be worth swinging for -- Friedman also added that he "heard it's not going to be" the Oilers.

Stay tuned. We'll see where this goes, as they say...

 

[Kiwi]

I totally get why we'd want to keep Liljegren and Sandin and grow them and I'm not advocating dangling them.

But from a homegrown vs trade, age and upside point of view all I'm saying is Chychrun is a 1998 birthday, Liljegren is a 1999 birthday and Sandin is a 2000 birthday, so it's one of those unique situations where if we were to package our futures up, we'd actually be getting back a player virtually the same age.

Our two guys have contractual plusses as well though

Chychrun is cheap for another 3-4 years but our two guys haven't even gotten RFA deals yet which means we could get bridges plus or cheap 7-8 year deals

I like Chychrun but I think he's a Muzzin replacement rather than a Holl replacement and I cringe when I start thinking of the cost of acquisition

 

[Menzinger]

Another tissue with an offensive guy like Chychrun is that he's likely not getting on that 1st pp unit. Especially now that Rielly is here long term.

Certainly makes me less hesitant to want to pay a king's ransom to get him

 

[Menzinger]

Not not sure on that

Sandin is a gifted puck mover who's probably going to put up points during his career but Liljegren is right handed, better defensively, has better mobility an may end up being a guy you trust on the ice in a one goal game in the last minute which also has extreme value for a team

Both have also looked ok on the 2nd pair over a very limited sample size as well this season

Trading either at this age will be a mistake imo
You get good homegrown defensive units by keeping your talented young defenseman rather than trading them

Those two young D are likely the closest thing the team has to an "untouchable" piece outside of the big 3 (especially Sandin, at least from managements POV).

 

[Stephen]

Our two guys have contractual plusses as well though

Chychrun is cheap for another 3-4 years but our two guys haven't even gotten RFA deals yet which means we could get bridges plus or cheap 7-8 year deals

I like Chychrun but I think he's a Muzzin replacement rather than a Holl replacement and I cringe when I start thinking of the cost of acquisition

Sandin and Liljegren will also be exiting their ELC's at the end of this season so that eats into the contractual advantage somewhat but yes, they likely won't be breaking the bank on a bridge deal or a long term extension. All things considered though, 3.5 more years of Chychrun at his cap hit of $4.6 million is pretty darn good and I don't think we'd lose him as a UFA if we didn't want to.

 

[Kiwi]

Those two young D are likely the closest thing the team has to an "untouchable" piece outside of the big 3 (especially Sandin, at least from managements POV).

This team couldn't defend for **** over most of the 40 years I've followed them so I'd be surprised if they consider moving two of our best defensive prospects for 20 odd years as well

They are damn near untouchable for me

 

[Kiwi]

Sandin and Liljegren will also be exiting their ELC's at the end of this season so that eats into the contractual advantage somewhat but yes, they likely won't be breaking the bank on a bridge deal or a long term extension. All things considered though, 3.5 more years of Chychrun at his cap hit of $4.6 million is pretty darn good and I don't think we'd lose him as a UFA if we didn't want to.

I'm the first one to admit Chychrun is on a sweetheart of a deal but I'm starting to wonder if teams aren't doing UFA wrong

Getting a Brodie for 4 years and 5M looks like much smarter business than giving defenseman 8M+ because of an age discrepancy of a couple of years

If I'm resigning anybody long term in UFA they better be Tavares or Reilly level talents

 

[Stephen]

I'm the first one to admit Chychrun is on a sweetheart of a deal but I'm starting to wonder if teams aren't doing UFA wrong

Getting a Brodie for 4 years and 5M looks like much smarter business than giving defenseman 8M+ because of an age discrepancy of a couple of years

If I'm resigning anybody long term in UFA they better be Tavares or Reilly level talents

There are certainly benefits to going against the grain from what the market typically does. I think the biggest takeaway is don't overpay for guys like JVR or Zach Hyman and expect them to do more for you than their previous team while on a bigger salary.

Chychrun is a unique asset. We'd probably be moving a few big futures pieces for him but he is a very young building block himself, so it's just a question of what the delta is between let's say Sandin as an example, and the additional picks and prospects.

I like the idea of a big splash but with the team playing so well, staying on course might be the less sexy but smarter play. Dubas' bet has been on this core anyway.

 

[Kiwi]

There are certainly benefits to going against the grain from what the market typically does. I think the biggest takeaway is don't overpay for guys like JVR or Zach Hyman and expect them to do more for you than their previous team while on a bigger salary.

Chychrun is a unique asset. We'd probably be moving a few big futures pieces for him but he is a very young building block himself, so it's just a question of what the delta is between let's say Sandin as an example, and the additional picks and prospects.

I like the idea of a big splash but with the team playing so well, staying on course might be the less sexy but smarter play. Dubas' bet has been on this core anyway.

Our issue is with our cap allocation we can only invest long term in so many guys I'd describe as building blocks

We did that with Rielly, you could do that with Chychrun but I don't think we could afford both

Ideally you would keep Rielly until you give Chychrun his new deal them move Rielly but that's way easier said than done

It's bloody cut throat though

 

[Americanadian]

Muzzin has a few good landing spots if the leafs go after Chychrun. NYR could use a top 4 LHD vet and have futures to give up - would love to see the Leafs get Schneider after passing him over. STL could use Muzzin but they don’t have cap space or assets they’d want to move on from. VGK also make sense but don’t have cape space.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Another tissue with an offensive guy like Chychrun is that he's likely not getting on that 1st pp unit. Especially now that Rielly is here long term.

Certainly makes me less hesitant to want to pay a king's ransom to get him

Why not have both on the top pair?

PP1
Nylander Marner Matthews
Reilly Chychryn

PP2
Bunting Tavares Kase
Liljegren Sandin

 

[Legion34]

Muzzin has a few good landing spots if the leafs go after Chychrun. NYR could use a top 4 LHD vet and have futures to give up - would love to see the Leafs get Schneider after passing him over. STL could use Muzzin but they don’t have cap space or assets they’d want to move on from. VGK also make sense but don’t have cape space.

I think he would go back to LA. Wouldn’t get much for him. But muzz holds all the cards. Doughty would love to have him back. It would be free cap space.

heck say we did.
Sandin. Knies. 1st for chych

then traded muzz for LA second.

we would drip down like 15 spots and get a muzz replacement for 1 million less.


I personally think we just get gio though.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think he would go back to LA. Wouldn’t get much for him. But muzz holds all the cards. Doughty would love to have him back. It would be free cap space.

heck say we did.
Sandin. Knies. 1st for chych

then traded muzz for LA second.

we would drip down like 15 spots and get a muzz replacement for 1 million less.


I personally think we just get gio though.

Wtf? No.

This isn't prime age Pronger or anything man.

 

[Legion34]

Wtf? No.

This isn't prime age Pronger or anything man.

sandin is 2 years younger and has like 20 career points. As a 3rd pair d.

knies is a 2nd rounder who is playing well. He has Arizona roots.

how good do you think these players are?

I like sandin but I don’t think he is a star. He is gobbling up 3rd pair minutes. We saw Dermott do that too. Making the jump to top pair is massive.