GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART II

[Twine Tickler]

This might not be a very popular option out there but if Vancouver was willing to retain 50% of Tyler Myers contract I’d be pretty interested in that. He has 2 years remaining on his current deal and even with his game slowing down these past two years he’s still a way more effective and better defencemen than Justin Holl.

Rielly - Brodie
Sandin - Myers
Muzzin - Liljegren

Tyler Myers is the worst defenseman on Vancouver. By a mile. I wouldn't want him on the Leafs at league minimum TBH

 

[4thline]

the leafs have been one of the best defenses int he league the past 2 years and you guys want to add absolute crap like Myers and Braun....into our top 4???

I don't even know what to say anymore.

I mean, i at least see some kind of argument with Chiarot - he was able to hack it decently when paired with Weber in a top matchup role last year - but Myers and Braun are bad depth dmen on atrocious defenses.

What part of 19:46 per game at 37% ozone starts and matchup competition screams "depth dman" to you?

 

[zeke]

What part of 19:46 per game at 37% ozone starts and matchup competition screams "depth dman" to you?

Quite literally it means he's the #5 dman on his awful defensive team, with a bit of a minutes boost from Ellis' injury.

 

[4thline]

Quite literally it means he's the #5 dman on his awful defensive team, with a bit of a minutes boost from Ellis' injury.

You're better than this man. A 5 isn't a "depth dman". With Ellis out He's their matchup guy. He's playing the toughest defensive minutes on the team. Not doing well in them, but he's carrying the load. He'd be a perfect Sandin partner, and an even better 7 that could ably play on any pair as needed.

Swallow your pride sometimes and admit that you're not an expert on every player in the league.

 

[zeke]

You're better than this man. A 5 isn't a "depth dman".

I'm sorry but a #5 dman is absolutely a depth dman. I'm not sure why you think otherwise.

You want to take a bottom pair dman from one of the worst teams in the league and plug him into our top-4, when our defense has been one of the best defenses in hockey the past couple years. Doesn't that sound a little nuts to you?

 

[BlueForever75]

If there is any way for the Leafs to acquire Chariot or Edmundson from Montreal I would be all over it. 2 dmen that would fit nicely in the top 4 along with Reilly, Brodie and Muzzin. I dont see these 2 teams dealing anytime soon but those type of D types would do the Leafs some good.

Another set of targets would be Mayfield (NYI), Braun (PHI), Dunn (SEA), Larsson (SEA), Edler (LA), Stralman (ARI)

 

[Mickey Marner]

Tyler Myers is a hard no. I wouldn't mind buying low on Philippe Myers though. He could be the next Burns or Byfuglien if he manages to get his shit together.

 

[Maplebeasts]

The blueline is already crowded. Why do we need to trade for a D when the 7 we have now seem to be doing the job just fine?

 

[4thline]

I'm sorry but a #5 dman is absolutely a depth dman. I'm not sure why you think otherwise.

You want to take a bottom pair dman from one of the worst teams in the league and plug him into our top-4, when our defense has been one of the best defenses in hockey the past couple years.

20 minutes a night in matchup minutes is neither a 5 nor a depth dman. Raw TOI doesn't tell the whole story about a defensive D on a d-corps overloaded with guys that need offensive minutes to succeed.

It's also funny that he's not doing that badly in it. His WoWy XGA is actually equal to / better than Holl's.

 

[4thline]

The blueline is already crowded. Why do we need to trade for a D when the 7 we have now seem to be doing the job just fine?

I'd only go after Braun if it was to
extract extra value out of Holl because of the extra year
get Braun retained to open up some cap space
give Liljegren a bigger role next to Muzz

His steadiness would make him a better partner for Sandin than Holl IMO, while being cheaper and able to slot up if needed.

 

[ACC1224]

The blueline is already crowded. Why do we need to trade for a D when the 7 we have now seem to be doing the job just fine?

Most will agree that Holl needs to be upgraded.

 

[jaric1862]

Our biggest need right now is a #4. Holl is a #4 ONLY when playing with Muzzin. When Muzin went down in the past, its glaringly obvious that the defence, outside of Rielly-Brodie, can't cut it.

 

[zeke]

20 minutes a night in matchup minutes is neither a 5 nor a depth dman. Raw TOI doesn't tell the whole story about a defensive D on a d-corps overloaded with guys that need offensive minutes to succeed.

It's also funny that he's not doing that badly in it. His WoWy XGA is actually equal to / better than Holl's.

I didn't bring up raw TOI, you did. In fact his TOI is boosted by being on the top PK unit, though the PK is terrible so that's no feather in his cap.

Braun has been a bottom pair dman every year he's been with the Flyers - even though their defense has been terrible over that time. His TOI is slightly higher this year thanks to the Ellis injury, but then again the Flyers are worse than ever this year, so that doesn't make him look good either.

Last time he was in a top-4, in SJ, his numbers were atrocious. And that's when he was 30, not 35 like he is now. He's an older, slower version of Bogosian.

I don't get how Leafs fans just refuse to believe our defense is good no matter what happens on the ice, and that bottom pair dmen from bad defensive teams would be upgrades to our Top-4.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I think a scoring winger should be a top priority.

Things are good right now but I don't think it will carry over into the playoffs. They need a quality piece that can put the puck in the net and can push through the physicality of playoff hockey.

Obviously, the perfect option is someone like JT Miller but even a lesser piece will do as long as it's the right type of player.

Other than that a depth defenseman is good too for bolstering the defense.

 

[Kurtz]

The blueline is already crowded. Why do we need to trade for a D when the 7 we have now seem to be doing the job just fine?

It's for the playoffs. Because:

1. Can't trust Dermott in a playoff situation (as we saw last year).
2. Need someone better than Holl as the right-side half of our shutdown pairing.
3. Can't have a pair of rookies as our 3rd d-pairing in the playoffs.

So ideally, we'd want to ship out Dermott and maybe Holl and bring in a good, solid, reliable guy to put next to Muzzin (like Chiarot), and then another RHD vet to put next to Sandin (Bogosian type. Maybe a Braun. Hell, maybe Holl can handle that).

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Most will agree that Holl needs to be upgraded.

Definitely. I'd use Holl to upgrade on Holl. Hopefully they explore what Holl + 2nd can get closer to deadline. Holl is still a NHL level d-man so should garner interest on teams who don't have to get through the Atlantic to get to the conference finals.

Ideally not use Holl and instead move him to 3rd pairing where he will be better due to QoC drop, however this doesn't work because it means Liljegren has to sit, that's a huge no from me.

 

[4thline]

I didn't bring up raw TOI, you did. In fact his TOI is boosted by being on the top PK unit, though the PK is terrible so that's no feather in his cap.

Braun has been a bottom pair dman every year he's been with the Flyers - even though their defense has been terrible over that time. His TOI is slightly higher this year thanks to the Ellis injury, but then again the Flyers are worse than ever this year, so that doesn't make him look good either.

Last time he was in a top-4, in SJ, his numbers were atrocious. And that's when he was 30, not 35 like he is now. He's an older, slower version of Bogosian.

I don't get how Leafs fans just refuse to believe our defense is good no matter what happens on the ice, and that bottom pair dmen from bad defensive teams would be upgrades to our Top-4.

I don't get why you can't accept that our D being good doesn't mean that every single player is irreplaceable, and feel the need to believe other teams players can't be useful and need to be misrepresented.

It's simple fact that Justin Braun is playing a top 4 role this season (albeit due to the Ellis injury), and hard, matchup minutes at that.
It's also simple fact that his xGA/60 is within .05 of Justin Holl's despite playing on such a terrible defensive team, while playing those matchup minutes.

 

[123offtheglass]

Quite literally it means he's the #5 dman on his awful defensive team, with a bit of a minutes boost from Ellis' injury.

Minutes boost is definitely true, Flyers brutal defensive play is more systematic than quality of players though (& Ellis' injury). I'd go as far as to say he's been one of the few bright spots for them.

If we're purely looking at numbers he's done well considering his usage on a team that's been lit up.

If the team can manage to stay on LTIR the rest of the season, cap won't be an issue; but likely something is going to have to give once that stops. Holl & Dermott's names have already been rumored. Scenario of bringing in Braun would be under the assumption they move Holl for assets/futures.

Big picture, defence & defensive play isn't a weakness, doesn't mean they shouldn't make it more a strength though.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I don't get why you can't accept that our D being good doesn't means that every single player is player is irreplaceable and other teams players can't be useful and need to be misrepresented.

It's simple fact that Justin Braun is playing a top 4 role this season (albeit due to the Ellis injury), and hard, matchup minutes at that.
It's also simple fact that his xGA/60 is within .05 of Justin Holl's despite playing on such a terrible defensive team, while playing those matchup minutes.

playing a top 4 role out of necessity on a terrible defensive team doesn't count as him being a top 4 caliber defenseman. looking at just xGA doesn't tell you if he's actually getting good defensive results, or if he's just a low event defenseman who's still getting buried

 

[zeke]

I don't get why you can't accept that our D being good doesn't mean that every single player is irreplaceable, and feel the need to believe other teams players can't be useful and need to be misrepresented.

It's simple fact that Justin Braun is playing a top 4 role this season (albeit due to the Ellis injury), and hard, matchup minutes at that.
It's also simple fact that his xGA/60 is within .05 of Justin Holl's despite playing on such a terrible defensive team, while playing those matchup minutes.

Braun is a 35yr old that's been a bottom pair dman on a bad defense corps for years now.

How in the world is this a guy you want in our Top 4?

 

[LeafSteel]

Definitely. I'd use Holl to upgrade on Holl. Hopefully they explore what Holl + 2nd can get closer to deadline. Holl is still a NHL level d-man so should garner interest on teams who don't have to get through the Atlantic to get to the conference finals.

Ideally not use Holl and instead move him to 3rd pairing where he will be better due to QoC drop, however this doesn't work because it means Liljegren has to sit, that's a huge no from me.

Wut the Holl are you talking about??????

 

[4thline]

playing a top 4 role out of necessity on a terrible defensive team doesn't count as him being a top 4 caliber defenseman. looking at just xGA doesn't tell you if he's actually getting good defensive results, or if he's just a low event defenseman who's still getting buried

By definition a low xGA does tell you that he's getting good defensive results, the thing a defensive dman is most able to impact. Incorporating the offensive side takes way too much into account, things that aren't necessarily transitive between teams. Is it a transition problem or O-zone execution problem? If it's transition, how much is system driven? or C support driven? (or yes, bad puck moving RD driven)

Also, it's not really a terrible defensive team with that pair on the ice. 2 of your 3 pairs having Risto and Nick Seeler on them very quickly create a poor defensive team

 

[4thline]

Braun is a 35yr old that's been a bottom pair dman on a bad defense corps for years now.

How in the world is this a guy you want in our Top 4?

I agree with many of your base opinions, but I get why many posters give you a hard time.

Don't like the generalizations? Go granular with stats and context
Don't like the granular stats and context? Generalize your opinion and present it as fact.

Never admit error, never consider outside opinion. Zeke knows all. Every Leaf is perfect for their role. Anyone that disagrees about anything (no matter how small) is not enlightened and can't accept how good the Leafs are.

Also, if you were reading the thread, you'd see that I don't want Braun for the top 4. I want Lilly in the top 4 and Braun as a better partner for Sandin.

And really, "want" is a strong word. I think it would be a viable and defensible move. Really Braun was just low hanging fruit to push back against the Zeke knows all, Leafs good, non-leafs bad condescension.

 

[GBLeaf]

I really think Leafs need to acquire a hard man who will put himself about come play-offs. Bogo isn't a big miss during regular season, but I definitely think someone of his ilk is a must for the play-offs if we want to contend.

 

[Amadeus]

I really think Leafs need to acquire a hard man who will put himself about come play-offs. Bogo isn't a big miss during regular season, but I definitely think someone of his ilk is a must for the play-offs if we want to contend.

Ben Chariot is solid.