Trade and Free Agency Discussion Thread - Don't Expect More Augmenting
- Thread starter BertCorbeau
- Start date
- Status
So with the Soup deal in and @ChuckWoods point about wanting to keep 200k cap space for more flexible recalls, and assuming the roster is down to Engvall/Barabanov/Vesey/Robertson (or Anderson, but we don't know his price point), that leaves for Dermott
Robertson = 1.21
Barabanov =1.11
Engvall = .96
And the off board option- Engvall Traded
Robertson= 1.39
Barabanov= 1.29
So unless another roster move is coming or we're going to block Engvall from making the team it's hard to see Dermott getting more than 1.1.
Which is unfortunate because a 2 year deal (like Larsson at 1.2 ish) could be huge for the team next year.
Robertson = 1.21
Barabanov =1.11
Engvall = .96
And the off board option- Engvall Traded
Robertson= 1.39
Barabanov= 1.29
So unless another roster move is coming or we're going to block Engvall from making the team it's hard to see Dermott getting more than 1.1.
Which is unfortunate because a 2 year deal (like Larsson at 1.2 ish) could be huge for the team next year.
Rielly4
Registered User
- Dec 12, 2012
- 3,671
- 660
Theres always the option of sending down lehtonen but i know no one likes that kind of thought...Havent even seen him play yet. His numbers do look great though...Not sure he will be even close to as effective as Dermott on the 3rd pair.
He was a healthy scratch in a couple playoff games.... only thing blocking Engvall from playing next year is himself. If he played with heart and determination every shift, the leafs would find a way to put him on the team.
Agent: 5-6 serious contenders for unrestricted free agent Mike Hoffman - TSN.ca
According to his agent, Robert Hooper, 13 teams have expressed interest in free agent Mike Hoffman this month, including five or six who are considered serious contenders to sign the 30-year-old winger.
Hoffman sits No. 1 among TSN's top remaining free agents and led all remaining unsigned players in goals and points last season.
“I think teams are a little paralyzed at this point in time by the flat cap,” Hooper told Adam Vingan of The Athletic Monday. “I think some of the teams that would love to add Mike Hoffman to their roster have had difficulty moving pieces around in order to make room for a guy like Mike. The feedback on him has been very positive. It’s just a matter of making it fit."
“I think it’s just a situation where until we know when the puck’s being dropped, there’s no pressure on either side to really do anything.”
Hooper confirmed that Hoffman, who had 29 goals and 59 points in 69 games with the Florida Panthers last season, is open to a one-year deal, as TSN Senior Hockey Reporter Frank Seravalli reported last week.
"One player who has held firm on his value and his belief is Mike Hoffman," Seravalli explained on Insider Trading. "Who is somewhere probably between $5.5 million and $6.5 million on a one-year deal. A guy who averages 27 goals a season. He can be had on that one-year deal. The teams that are most interested at this point are the Boston Bruins, the Columbus Blue Jackets and also the Nashville Predators. But other teams like the Habs, like the Canucks could be in the mix if they’re able to move pieces."
Hoffman was traded to the Panthers from the Ottawa Senators prior to the 2018-19 and posted a career-high 36 goals and 70 points in his first season with the club.
He is coming off a four-year, $20.75 million contract.
According to his agent, Robert Hooper, 13 teams have expressed interest in free agent Mike Hoffman this month, including five or six who are considered serious contenders to sign the 30-year-old winger.
Hoffman sits No. 1 among TSN's top remaining free agents and led all remaining unsigned players in goals and points last season.
“I think teams are a little paralyzed at this point in time by the flat cap,” Hooper told Adam Vingan of The Athletic Monday. “I think some of the teams that would love to add Mike Hoffman to their roster have had difficulty moving pieces around in order to make room for a guy like Mike. The feedback on him has been very positive. It’s just a matter of making it fit."
“I think it’s just a situation where until we know when the puck’s being dropped, there’s no pressure on either side to really do anything.”
Hooper confirmed that Hoffman, who had 29 goals and 59 points in 69 games with the Florida Panthers last season, is open to a one-year deal, as TSN Senior Hockey Reporter Frank Seravalli reported last week.
"One player who has held firm on his value and his belief is Mike Hoffman," Seravalli explained on Insider Trading. "Who is somewhere probably between $5.5 million and $6.5 million on a one-year deal. A guy who averages 27 goals a season. He can be had on that one-year deal. The teams that are most interested at this point are the Boston Bruins, the Columbus Blue Jackets and also the Nashville Predators. But other teams like the Habs, like the Canucks could be in the mix if they’re able to move pieces."
Hoffman was traded to the Panthers from the Ottawa Senators prior to the 2018-19 and posted a career-high 36 goals and 70 points in his first season with the club.
He is coming off a four-year, $20.75 million contract.
Marincin/Rosen beating out Lehtonen does open up another 200k, but if we don't budget for Lehtonen then we bar him from winning the spot.
Similar, point it's about contract logistics. If Dermott contract doesn't account for him in the budget he can't win the spot
- Sep 8, 2004
- 15,425
- 2,099
I have a feeling he's going to be paired with Rielly or Muzzin depending on who has the better chemistry between him and Brodie with Rielly.
Lehtonen will be in the top 4, not bottom pairing.
Lehtonen proving himself to actually be the top 4 quality NHL defenseman so many are saying he is/will be would solve a lot of problems for us ... For 1 year anyway
justashadowof
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2020
- 4,025
- 4,230
I'm predicting 1 year under $2M aav with a rebuilding team. Mike Hoffman's rep is tainted. Florida has a ton of cap space, why haven't they signed him by now?
BTW I appreciate the posted article samples.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
justashadowof
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2020
- 4,025
- 4,230
Lehtonen being able to play the right side at the NHL level would solve a lot of problems as well. First I'd like to see if he can play at the NHL level.
justashadowof
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2020
- 4,025
- 4,230
Ask former Ottawa Senators' players like Karlsson, Turris and Hammond how things went with Hoffman as a teammate.
Mickey Marner
Registered User
Lehtonen didn't sign here to play with the Marlies for 70k. Jokerit is a better team and probably pays more. He's on the team. Engvall in the minors clears the more (1.075) cap space than Lehtonen (0.925) or Vesey (0.900) would anyhow, even when you account for his (0.175) hit that stays on the cap. I think he's back in the minors.
I agree with the first point, so you need to assume we are going to carry a 21 man roster with the spare being a defenseman (Lehtonen or Bogosian depending on your preference).
If Engvall is on the team that only leaves approximately 1.2 million (slightly less actually) for Dermott and we're completely capped out.
Demote Engvall and replace him with Barabanov and you gain about $100,000 in space, replace him with Robertson and you get about $100,000 more, replace him with a league minimum guy (Agostino/Malgin/Anderson - I assume will be) and you get another $100,000 more.
So basically the 4th line will be these based on what Dermott signs for.
Dermott 1.5
Thornton - Spezza - (Agostino/Malgin/Anderson)
Dermott 1.4
Thornton - Spezzza - Robertson (or one of the above)
Dermott 1.3
Thornton - Spezza - Barabanov (or one of the above)
Dermott 1.2
Thornton - Spezza - Engvall (or one of the above)
Ideally you have an actual competition for the spot and not just the best of the guys we can afford.
Mickey Marner
Registered User
I'm happy that there will be internal competition for spots. Having guys like Ceci and Zaitsev walk onto the team and get first pair duties went as terribly as you would expect.
Carltons Cup
Let's Do This..
- Feb 22, 2018
- 2,909
- 4,700
Exactly this.
These are good free wallets and it would set a bad precedent if we sign him then bury him in the minors. No one else would want to sign here. His own worst enemy would be himself.
TML Dynasty
Registered User
- May 2, 2016
- 1,551
- 902
I only want to keep Engvall for his PK ability. Hyman, Mikheyev.....and who else? Boyd or Anderson......I dont know enough about
Mickey Marner
Registered User
Vesey or Kerfoot perhaps. A PK'ing center was the one thing we didn't get that I wanted.
Engvall should be traded if he's not on the club, and I agree he likely isn't. It's unfortunate but that 175k that bleeds into our cap situation from him not even playing with Leafs isn't acceptable. That's how tight we are
- Sep 8, 2004
- 15,425
- 2,099
do you really think Dermott is worth double what Mete got??? Dermott should get 1 million MAX based on what he has done so far, but, could get less (compared to Mete, and i love that deal as a comparable).
So the new(ish) Leaf report is Mirtle and Siegal talking about Joe Thornton. I recommend it to anyone who has a commute or free time to listen to. Very good episode. Here are the highlights.
- Mirtle says Lebrun knows Thornton very well and Lebrun says Thornton is going to play forever, whether it be in the NHL or over in Switzerland with Davos. He's of a similar vein of Jagr, where they keep themselves in insane shape and have a passion for the game. Point being, is this may not just be a 1 and done for Thornton and the Leafs. That if things go well, he could come back next year.
- Mirtle doesn't think Thornton is coming in with an ego or anything. He knows he'll spend some games on the fourth line, and even some games not in the lineup. Both Mirtle and Siegal seem to agree he will be somewhere in the top 9 to start.
- Mirtle and Siegal both think Thornton could be a big addition to the powerplay. Siegal seems to think that they might do two balanced PP's again, versus one stacked one. Mirtle seems to think that makes sense. They seem to think Thornton-Matthews-Tavares-TBD-Rielly on one, and then Marner-Nylander-TBD-TBD-TBD on the other.
- Mirtle says the Leafs are rounding out their roster much like Dallas did last season, and hoping for similar success. Mirtle says the Leafs have the top end talent, and unfortunately Leaf fans have seen past GM's (Burke/Nonis) try and add the Simmonds/Bogosian types without that high end talent to support them.
- Mirtle also points out, that the Leafs are getting their supporting cast to come in on the cheap. Thornton and Spezza taking 700K each. Bogosian coming for 1M. Simmonds turning down less from elsewhere (MTL) to come here. Says previously, the Leafs had to overpay for it. (Clarkson, Martin).
- Mirtle says he's not sure how anyone can dislike this signing, unless they are trying to be contrarian, or have a dislike for the Leafs team, or for the General Manager, or Thornton himself. Mirtle says the worst case scenario is Thornton plays horribly, and Dubas either loans him back to Davos, or they mutually terminate the agreement, or Dubas/Keefe have to have the discussion that Thornton isn't going to be a regular anymore.
- Mirtle says he doesn't think Andersen is getting traded. He thinks other teams were coming at the Leafs asking if he was available. Mirtle says after the playoffs, the Leafs thought about "a lot of things" and that was one of the things they thought of and it didn't happen for one reason or another. (Wonders if it's because Lehner didn't get to free agency, or maybe they liked Kuemper, but didn't like Arizona's asking price).
- Mirtle says he doesn't think they will add a top 4 D at all. Dubas has said this is the group they will go in with, and it makes sense. Siegal says he thinks it's a medium-sized risk that they are trusting Andersen again. Siegal says when you look at things practically, what could you have done? Mirtle says he doesn't think Corey Crawford was doing backflips to go to New Jersey, so maybe you could've signed him. Siegal says he'd be more comfortable with Crawford than Andersen, but Crawford is also mid-30's. Mirtle points out that Crawford's numbers and analytics are really solid, and he wasn't the problem in Chicago.
- Mirtle says if Andersen struggles again, they could look for a mid-season replacement from a team that has fallen out of the playoffs.
- Mirtle says internally, the Leafs think Jack Campbell can be something, and can challenge Freddy. They've also added Dell. So the Leafs have options. Siegal says that maybe it's as simple as if Campbell plays well and Freddy doesn't, Campbell plays more. Mirtle says the intention to start is to be a tandem and see how they play rather than just anointing Freddy.
- Mirtle and Siegal agree that the Leafs 7 D will be who they go into the season with. Dermott or Holl won't be moved.
- Mirtle says Lebrun knows Thornton very well and Lebrun says Thornton is going to play forever, whether it be in the NHL or over in Switzerland with Davos. He's of a similar vein of Jagr, where they keep themselves in insane shape and have a passion for the game. Point being, is this may not just be a 1 and done for Thornton and the Leafs. That if things go well, he could come back next year.
- Mirtle doesn't think Thornton is coming in with an ego or anything. He knows he'll spend some games on the fourth line, and even some games not in the lineup. Both Mirtle and Siegal seem to agree he will be somewhere in the top 9 to start.
- Mirtle and Siegal both think Thornton could be a big addition to the powerplay. Siegal seems to think that they might do two balanced PP's again, versus one stacked one. Mirtle seems to think that makes sense. They seem to think Thornton-Matthews-Tavares-TBD-Rielly on one, and then Marner-Nylander-TBD-TBD-TBD on the other.
- Mirtle says the Leafs are rounding out their roster much like Dallas did last season, and hoping for similar success. Mirtle says the Leafs have the top end talent, and unfortunately Leaf fans have seen past GM's (Burke/Nonis) try and add the Simmonds/Bogosian types without that high end talent to support them.
- Mirtle also points out, that the Leafs are getting their supporting cast to come in on the cheap. Thornton and Spezza taking 700K each. Bogosian coming for 1M. Simmonds turning down less from elsewhere (MTL) to come here. Says previously, the Leafs had to overpay for it. (Clarkson, Martin).
- Mirtle says he's not sure how anyone can dislike this signing, unless they are trying to be contrarian, or have a dislike for the Leafs team, or for the General Manager, or Thornton himself. Mirtle says the worst case scenario is Thornton plays horribly, and Dubas either loans him back to Davos, or they mutually terminate the agreement, or Dubas/Keefe have to have the discussion that Thornton isn't going to be a regular anymore.
- Mirtle says he doesn't think Andersen is getting traded. He thinks other teams were coming at the Leafs asking if he was available. Mirtle says after the playoffs, the Leafs thought about "a lot of things" and that was one of the things they thought of and it didn't happen for one reason or another. (Wonders if it's because Lehner didn't get to free agency, or maybe they liked Kuemper, but didn't like Arizona's asking price).
- Mirtle says he doesn't think they will add a top 4 D at all. Dubas has said this is the group they will go in with, and it makes sense. Siegal says he thinks it's a medium-sized risk that they are trusting Andersen again. Siegal says when you look at things practically, what could you have done? Mirtle says he doesn't think Corey Crawford was doing backflips to go to New Jersey, so maybe you could've signed him. Siegal says he'd be more comfortable with Crawford than Andersen, but Crawford is also mid-30's. Mirtle points out that Crawford's numbers and analytics are really solid, and he wasn't the problem in Chicago.
- Mirtle says if Andersen struggles again, they could look for a mid-season replacement from a team that has fallen out of the playoffs.
- Mirtle says internally, the Leafs think Jack Campbell can be something, and can challenge Freddy. They've also added Dell. So the Leafs have options. Siegal says that maybe it's as simple as if Campbell plays well and Freddy doesn't, Campbell plays more. Mirtle says the intention to start is to be a tandem and see how they play rather than just anointing Freddy.
- Mirtle and Siegal agree that the Leafs 7 D will be who they go into the season with. Dermott or Holl won't be moved.
Fogelhund
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2007
- 24,481
- 29,650
Anderson is a good PK guy, averaged almost 2 minutes per game, when he did play with NJ, with good success. Boyd I can't see being more than depth callup, or more likely a solid addition to the Marlies.
Vesey has played on the PK, for both Buffalo and NYR.
Marner played PK well for us.
So, Kerfoot, Marner, Engvall, Hyman, Mikheyev, Anderson and Vesey can PK.
Edited to add Kerfoot thanks to @Sypher04
Last edited:
I suspect they sign Dermott for 1 year at $1.25 million and worry about this problem next year. Anderson will get signed for whatever the max amount we can sign him for and still burry him on the Marlies.
I think we roll with 12 forwards and 7 defenseman. Given how top heavy we are, they should expect to play.
Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Mikheyev-Tavares-Nylander
Vessey-Kerfoot-Simmonds
Spezza-Thorton-Barbanov
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Lehtonen-Dermott-Bogosian (I think they just rotate through the 3 of them until someone takes Holl's spot. My money is on Lehtonen)
This doesn't leave much, if any cap space but it is compliant which is all that matters.
Kerfoot also proved in the playoffs he can be an effective PKer
If Anderson wants the best crack at an NHL job this year, he'd be wise to take as close to league minimum as possible. He should be more concerned with establishing his career at this point than another 100-200k or so. That's easy for me to say though I guess lol
- Status
