I am curious as to what is the possibility that Toronto gets an OHL team back? What arena would work, and would people go to watch?
Toronto OHL team
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Naz
Registered User
I wish it would but personality I don't think Toronto could support anetwork OHL team anymore. To bad
I can't remember who said it, but it holds true. "Toronto is not a hockey city, Toronto is a Leafs city."
bobber
Registered User
PrioritySelection
Hi. I watch hockey.
Taking the initial question at face value, a suitable arena would be a problem alone.
The Mattamy Centre (what was the Maple Leaf Gardens) seats just under 2,800 for ice hockey and lacks ammenities that are now fairly common-place in the OHL today. Parking would also be a major issue if you're trying to appeal to any of the Toronto 'suburb' crowd as it would be highly improbable a team there would draw heavily from downtown.
Ditto the Air Canada Centre and I can't see MLSE having any interest to enter the OHL in that facility with the Leafs, Raptors, and slew of concert dates.
Really, the Ricoh Coliseum would probably be the most plausible location that would work for an OHL team and it would likely have to be in conjunction with MLSE to have any shot at working there. While the AHL Marlies have picked up their attendance and seem to be making a bit of traction in the market, it's been a very long time developing and the state of that team would be incredibly volatile if MLSE weren't subsidizing it to benefit from other interests (eg. close proximity for call-ups, better oversight on development, etc.)
So the long and short of it is, no, the OHL won't be happening in Toronto anytime soon. This notion, as you can see from the posts above is basically a consensus.
That's not to say the OHL won't return to Toronto at some point in the future, and if you look at the league's past, I would say it's highly likely it will at some point. Whether that's in 10, 15, 20+ years will remain to be seen.
The Mattamy Centre (what was the Maple Leaf Gardens) seats just under 2,800 for ice hockey and lacks ammenities that are now fairly common-place in the OHL today. Parking would also be a major issue if you're trying to appeal to any of the Toronto 'suburb' crowd as it would be highly improbable a team there would draw heavily from downtown.
Ditto the Air Canada Centre and I can't see MLSE having any interest to enter the OHL in that facility with the Leafs, Raptors, and slew of concert dates.
Really, the Ricoh Coliseum would probably be the most plausible location that would work for an OHL team and it would likely have to be in conjunction with MLSE to have any shot at working there. While the AHL Marlies have picked up their attendance and seem to be making a bit of traction in the market, it's been a very long time developing and the state of that team would be incredibly volatile if MLSE weren't subsidizing it to benefit from other interests (eg. close proximity for call-ups, better oversight on development, etc.)
So the long and short of it is, no, the OHL won't be happening in Toronto anytime soon. This notion, as you can see from the posts above is basically a consensus.
That's not to say the OHL won't return to Toronto at some point in the future, and if you look at the league's past, I would say it's highly likely it will at some point. Whether that's in 10, 15, 20+ years will remain to be seen.
bobber
Registered User
Ditto with what other posters have said, another GTA/Toronto based team wouldn't work. It's taken 3 years for the Steelheads to build any kind of momentum at the box office. I imagine there was a number of reasons why St. Mike's moved to Missy in the first place (arena, attendance, etc...).
Toronto is a Leafs town.
Just thinking of parking for a game downtown is giving me a headache.
Toronto is a Leafs town.
Just thinking of parking for a game downtown is giving me a headache.
PrioritySelection
Hi. I watch hockey.
As much as the St. Michael's College School Arena is a hockey 'cathedral' it's not even close to being OHL calibre, that's for certain.
If the Marlies continue to establish themselves it wouldn't shock me if one day MLSE feels like an OHL team could be an asset they'd like to add to their portfolio. That's by far the most logical way to see the OHL returning to Toronto, and I don't think that's particularly close to happening.
Down the road, I could see a 'York Region' team possibly gain some traction. Unfortunately Newmarket, Aurora, Bradford etc. have all just invested in high-end recreational facilities so the appetetite to build a $60mm+ arena probably isn't all that high. There are also territory issues as I believe Barrie's rights go further south than you might think.
Hammer9001
Registered User
I can't see it happening, there are far too many Torontonians that prioritize watching the Leafs at home or at a bar (because lord knows they can't afford an actual ticket) then actually coming out and watching live hockey. Heck, the Marlies who are directly tied to the Leafs struggled pre 2013-14 because the team both stunk and the no one treated their development seriously. It's only been recently since they'd have a competent team that they've been drawing, and with all the call ups, that might not stay that way.
You'd also have to deal with the proximity to Mississauga, who are struggling in their own right (even after Brampton left) and Oshawa who I am sure feels Ajax and Pickering as part of their region. I just don't see it happening.
You'd also have to deal with the proximity to Mississauga, who are struggling in their own right (even after Brampton left) and Oshawa who I am sure feels Ajax and Pickering as part of their region. I just don't see it happening.
PrioritySelection
Hi. I watch hockey.
The success of an OHL team in Toronto would really come down to MLSE. At this point, I doubt there's a whole lot of desire to add another team to the portfolio in hockey but that's not to say it will never be the case.
If that does in fact happen, don't underestimate the ability to leverage their other brands (principally the Leafs) to sell season tickets to a hypothetical OHL team as part of a bundle. This was once the case with Raptors tickets that has since changed with the Raptors' rapid ascension as a prominent brand in the market.
The Marlies probably still benefit a bit from spin-off business via Leafs corporate partners and season tickets, but that's not to say an OHL team capitalize on a similar arrangement. With the Marlies now averaging over 6,000 fans a game, they are actually in the top third of the league.
If an OHL team could even average, say, 3,500 or 4,000 fans a game playing out of Ricoh, that would also put them well above the league median. If MLSE is the one pulling the strings, that could very well be feasible. Could the Marlies and an OHL team co-exist? Well, that would be another convuluted question.
At the very least, I wouldn't completely rule out this notion from happening at some point down the road, even if it may take 10+ years to come closer to fruition.
If that does in fact happen, don't underestimate the ability to leverage their other brands (principally the Leafs) to sell season tickets to a hypothetical OHL team as part of a bundle. This was once the case with Raptors tickets that has since changed with the Raptors' rapid ascension as a prominent brand in the market.
The Marlies probably still benefit a bit from spin-off business via Leafs corporate partners and season tickets, but that's not to say an OHL team capitalize on a similar arrangement. With the Marlies now averaging over 6,000 fans a game, they are actually in the top third of the league.
If an OHL team could even average, say, 3,500 or 4,000 fans a game playing out of Ricoh, that would also put them well above the league median. If MLSE is the one pulling the strings, that could very well be feasible. Could the Marlies and an OHL team co-exist? Well, that would be another convuluted question.
At the very least, I wouldn't completely rule out this notion from happening at some point down the road, even if it may take 10+ years to come closer to fruition.
Your not going to see another team in Toronto as for MLSE while I do think they might be interested in a Ohl team i could see them looking at another city maybe they look at Bellville.
Many will be watching the Marlies next year as many think attendance will drop a big chunck.
themightyquinn
Registered User
Agree completely. The GTA has already been divided up with Oshawa in the East, Mississauga to the West and to a lesser extent Barrie to the North.
Toronto itself is being served by the NHL and AHL. Toronto does have Ricoh so there is a building ready to go but from what I've seen the AHL and OHL have somewhat comparable ticket prices. I've seen $12 Marlies tickets which is cheaper than the cheapest Oshawa Generals ticket this year.
twinsdad
Registered User
My son, for whatever reason, is a Leafs fans. He has often asked me if we could ever see a game in Toronto. But, apparently, Leafs home tickets are made of gold. But I did get him tickets to the Winter Classic in Ann Arbor in 2014. There were several Torontonians there for the same reason. Great memories with that game. However, he gets upset with the "Losers since 1967" reference.
Honestly, being an American, you can get some great prices on Leafs tickets on Stubhub.
Sadly, all prices on their site are USD, even for Canadians.
Thanks everyone, these are some great insights! I agree that the most logical ownership would be MLSE expanding into the OHL realm- World Juniors are a venture that they already have got into too.
I would add that there are some many other sports teams plus festivals etc. in the city that the market is already hyper-competitive.
I would add that there are some many other sports teams plus festivals etc. in the city that the market is already hyper-competitive.
stormfanone
Registered User
I think MLSE is interested in controlling arenas so if something came in the scene I could see them wanting to get a team in there to control that. That said, I'm not sure why they never secured Copps/FOC in Hamilton. Great spot for concerts outside of Toronto.
knowescape
Made you look
There is an untapped market to the north of Toronto (you know, beyond Steeles Ave. where the dragons and sea monsters appear on the map). York Region has a huge population base to build a facility and support an OHL team. They have been touted as a possible "second Toronto NHL destination" but I don't see that happening any time in the future. York prides itself on being "not Toronto" and Barrie is a good hike up the 400 to actually qualify as York's team.
I don't know a lot about how the York region would see Barrie, I would guess that many of them probably wouldn't venture up to Barrie to watch the Colts, especially if one lives closer to Steeles. Could be on to something about putting a OHL team in that region though.
That is what we heard about both Brampton and Mississauga all games will be sold out your going into a untapped area both did not work as planned.
knowescape
Made you look
There are different dynamics in those municipalities and I don't believe Mississauga was marketed properly until recently, I mean the Majors were a Toronto team based in Mississauga right? Their attendance has been growing steadily since the introduction of the Steelheads brand and will continue as the team gains success. The demographics of Brampton and the proximity to Mississauga only served to split the fan base further.
The tri-cities of Markham, Richmond Hill and Vaughan have a tremendous population base and if a team were established that celebrated the "we are not Toronto" ie. "not blue and white" mentality, with a solid brand - OHL hockey would thrive.
PrioritySelection
Hi. I watch hockey.
I brought up York Region earlier - albeit I was pointing the arrow a little more north. It's definitely an intriguing market and one of the quickest growing population bases in all of Canada so it would only be logical for the OHL to conduct the due dilligence to see if there's viability there in the event of a relocation.
That said, the biggest issue with York Region is where do you build an arena where it could be marketed - and more importantly, embraced - as a regional team. If Vaughan decides to build a rink, are people from Markham really going to go to games? I don't know the answer to that, but I think it's murky at best.
Richmond Hill seems logical as the centre-point and perhaps there you could build something around the 404 where you may attract fans from Aurora and Newmarket as well to supplement a fan-base. Of course you'll also have a lot of issues with the civic council's bickering about how much support the region might be willing to give and why that's being deferred from another community, but it's definitely an interesting scenario to ponder.
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