Toronto has scored 11PPGs since Marner injury

[Racer88]

Thank God for the 2nd PP unit……..or are they actually the first unit now

 

[Racer88]

please remove marner from PP1

Take him off the PP completely.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Take him off the PP completely.

Getting big coaches son vibes from the insistence of Marner being the focal point of PP1

 

[wingman75]

The last PP looked like it did while Marner was injured. Very quick puck movement resulting in quality scoring chances from Matthews and Reilly.

It can be dangerous with Marner on the PP1 but not every setup or play has to be run through him.

With Matthews and Nylander on the wings both being able to onetime or snipe, they just have to move the puck quickly to allow one of them to be open

You just hit the nail on the head. Marner has awesome vision and play making ability, but making quick plays is not his modus operandi. And for me, a PP has to have quick and accurate puck movement in order to take advantage of the extra man. When Marner was not there, the puck was moving quicker... Two options exist. Marner needs to make the quicker plays or, move him off that PP unit.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

Put him on PP7

 

[Antropovsky]

The guy simply isn't producing. 33 percent of his goals this year are empty net... only 8 of his assist are primary. 26 games 6 goals 21 points, 66 point pace. Getting nearly $200,000 per point (when you include the 2 million in endorsements he gets here). Over 13% of our cap space he's taking up.

Can't score a pp goal in 90 games? Can't score a postseason goal in 18 games despite all those minutes? If he went to the dirty areas one would bounce off him by now or he'd have willed one in.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

The numbers are damning for sure. But we should keep in mind that the Leafs are only just getting back into a groove after being off for 17 days. The PP was hot when he was out injured don't get me wrong, but 6 games is a small sample size. I wanna see how they perform over this road trip, that will be 6 games without Marner and 6 games with Marner since early December. If they 1st unit is still O-fer afterwards I think Keefe should seriously consider moving Mitch off of there, his feelings be damned.

 

[ACC1224]

The numbers are damning for sure. But we should keep in mind that the Leafs are only just getting back into a groove after being off for 17 days. The PP was hot when he was out injured don't get me wrong, but 6 games is a small sample size. I wanna see how they perform over this road trip, that will be 6 games without Marner and 6 games with Marner since early December. If they 1st unit is still O-fer afterwards I think Keefe should seriously consider moving Mitch off of there, his feelings be damned.

His feelings have nothing to do with it.

 

[zeke]

PP1 actually tried some different stuff in this one. Guys moving around all over the place. Created some interesting looks.

More of that please.

 

[ACC1224]

Any reports of them working on the PP in practice?

Nice to see some different looks last night

 

[Gary Nylund]

The guy simply isn't producing. 33 percent of his goals this year are empty net... only 8 of his assist are primary. 26 games 6 goals 21 points, 66 point pace. Getting nearly $200,000 per point (when you include the 2 million in endorsements he gets here). Over 13% of our cap space he's taking up.

Can't score a pp goal in 90 games? Can't score a postseason goal in 18 games despite all those minutes? If he went to the dirty areas one would bounce off him by now or he'd have willed one in.

I have to say, at this point I'm more worried about Marner then I've ever been. There have been so many excuses made for him and some of them have some merit, not saying they don't but overall ... at some point, the 11 million dollar player has to produce. I remember thinking in the summer that one argument (one of many) for trading him is that his value might never be higher then it was at that point, 1st team all-star, under contract for several more prime years and so on. Sure hope it doesn't turn out that that indeed was the point at which his value peaked but as of today, I sure wouldn't want to bet against it.

 

[francis246]

I have to say, at this point I'm more worried about Marner then I've ever been. There have been so many excuses made for him and some of them have some merit, not saying they don't but overall ... at some point, the 11 million dollar player has to produce. I remember thinking in the summer that one argument (one of many) for trading him is that his value might never be higher then it was at that point, 1st team all-star, under contract for several more prime years and so on. Sure hope it doesn't turn out that that indeed was the point at which his value peaked but as of today, I sure wouldn't want to bet against it.

this is such an overreaction. This is legitimately his first year of not being a quality producer in the regular season. (Playoff's he's left more to be desired for sure). But this being concerned for him is nonsense. Lot of high salary guys have scoring slumps (for example MacKinnon has 3 goals this year, still well over a PPG, but that's less than Marner) and people are quite literally forgetting the guy hasn't played in well over a month. He's been injured. I get his salary is high and he deserves all the criticism for not producing, but it's such a double standard with fans on here. Matthews started slow as hell off injury, but Marner isn't afforded the same. My thing is, I don't get why people have such a hard on for blaming Marner for EVERYTHING. When Matthews and some of the other high paid guys should be equally to blame. Matthews doesn't score it's Marner's fault LOL, PP doesn't score it's Marner's fault.


One thing I do agree with you on, is if they wanted to trade him. They should have done it last summer. Probably would have been best for both the player and team at that point.

 

[Gary Nylund]

this is such an overreaction. This is legitimately his first year of not being a quality producer in the regular season. (Playoff's he's left more to be desired for sure). But this being concerned for him is nonsense. Lot of high salary guys have scoring slumps (for example MacKinnon has 3 goals this year, still well over a PPG, but that's less than Marner) and people are quite literally forgetting the guy hasn't played in well over a month. He's been injured. I get his salary is high and he deserves all the criticism for not producing, but it's such a double standard with fans on here. Matthews started slow as hell off injury, but Marner isn't afforded the same. My thing is, I don't get why people have such a hard on for blaming Marner for EVERYTHING. When Matthews and some of the other high paid guys should be equally to blame. Matthews doesn't score it's Marner's fault LOL, PP doesn't score it's Marner's fault.

One thing I do agree with you on, is if they wanted to trade him. They should have done it last summer. Probably would have been best for both the player and team at that point.

I don't blame Marner for everything. This seems to be a common reaction anytime someone dares to criticize him - why do people always blame him for everything. Sorry but it's complete BS, you're better than this. I don't even know what "everything" means in this case, the team is rolling along pretty nicely, the big picture is quite pleasing to the eye.

I don't hold Marner responsible for anything other than his own play, he hasn't played well this season and is massively underperforming his contract. He's below PPG pace for the first time in several years, in fact he's way below that pace. Last season he was among the league leaders in scoring and a 1st team all-star, compared to that, this season he basically sucks. 26 games this season, that's a long slump. Add in the last playoffs and we're talking about a 33 game slump and the PPG is even worse. I'm curious - how long would the slump have to last for you to be concerned?

 

[ShaneFalco]

I have to say, at this point I'm more worried about Marner then I've ever been. There have been so many excuses made for him and some of them have some merit, not saying they don't but overall ... at some point, the 11 million dollar player has to produce. I remember thinking in the summer that one argument (one of many) for trading him is that his value might never be higher then it was at that point, 1st team all-star, under contract for several more prime years and so on. Sure hope it doesn't turn out that that indeed was the point at which his value peaked but as of today, I sure wouldn't want to bet against it.

The moment the contract was signed, I think most knew he'd never live up to it. Personally I think he's overpaid by about $3 mill, but we could argue about that all day, and really it's irrelevant at this point
There's no questioning his skill and talent, but the question becomes, for this team, is the 11 mill better spent elsewhere? Especially when 16 seems to be a tad fragile, and unlike AM, feels the heat and pressure. He doesn't deal with it well and comes across in the media as entitled and stand-offish

The other issue is with the coach and GM. Why keep putting him out there on the first PP? Why not move him to PP2 and maybe he gets some confidence back and pots a few. The refusal to do this opens up a lot of questions. Dubas has made promises to players before.

 

[francis246]

I don't blame Marner for everything. This seems to be a common reaction anytime someone dares to criticize him - why do people always blame him for everything. Sorry but it's complete BS, you're better than this. I don't even know what "everything" means in this case, the team is rolling along pretty nicely, the big picture is quite pleasing to the eye.

I don't hold Marner responsible for anything other than his own play, he hasn't played well this season and is massively underperforming his contract. He's below PPG pace for the first time in several years, in fact he's way below that pace. Last season he was among the league leaders in scoring and a 1st team all-star, compared to that, this season he basically sucks. 26 games this season, that's a long slump. Add in the last playoffs and we're talking about a 33 game slump and the PPG is even worse. I'm curious - how long would the slump have to last for you to be concerned?

I'm not really a fan that worries or cares to that point, so I couldn't tell you. He's a good player, so I give him the same benefit of doubt that I afford to Matthews, that I afford to Nylander, Tavares, Rielly. To me I just need and expect him to come alive in the playoffs and I expect that for all our guys. Like I said the criticism is fair and just. He hasn't produced. But he is still coming back from a significant injury, he isn't going to be amazing right away. Just like Matthews wasn't either earlier on in the season. Right when he got injured he was playing very well which is probably why he was so pissed at muzzin in that moment. But if I had to answer that question directly, I'm not really concerned.

I think that has to do with I'm a sports fan in general and with other teams I follow and cheer for I've never seen such a polarizing player like Marner, and I just think NHL fans in general have sticks up their bums about the cap. It pretty much ruins the fan experience in my opinion and it's hard to not be so critical of players and how they perform on the ice and special teams. It's why the NHL stinks compared to the other major sports, but I love hockey so I still watch.

 

[ToneDog]

The moment the contract was signed, I think most knew he'd never live up to it. Personally I think he's overpaid by about $3 mill, but we could argue about that all day, and really it's irrelevant at this point
There's no questioning his skill and talent, but the question becomes, for this team, is the 11 mill better spent elsewhere? Especially when 16 seems to be a tad fragile, and unlike AM, feels the heat and pressure. He doesn't deal with it well and comes across in the media as entitled and stand-offish

The other issue is with the coach and GM. Why keep putting him out there on the first PP? Why not move him to PP2 and maybe he gets some confidence back and pots a few. The refusal to do this opens up a lot of questions. Dubas has made promises to players before.

If he does not turn his season around and does not produce in the playoffs, Leafs may have to sweeten to move him if they decide this core cannot get it done. Should have moved him this past summer coming off a huge season but can't do that when you bet you job on the core.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner dominates, finishes 4th in league scoring with top tier defensive play, 1st team all-star: "Regular season doesn't matter. I couldn't care less what he does in the regular season. It's completely meaningless. Practice time essentially."

Marner struggles to produce at his normal rate through less than 1/3 of a regular season, while dealing with injuries and Covid stoppages and the lowest 5v5 OISH% of his career, and while still providing top-tier defensive play and chance generation, as the team continues to win: "OMG PANIC!!!!! I'M SO CONCERNED!!! GARBAGE PLAYER!!! OVERPAID!!! REMOVE HIM FROM EVERYTHING!!! WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY TO TRADE HIM AWAY!!!!"

 

[ToneDog]

Marner dominates, finishes 4th in league scoring with top tier defensive play, 1st team all-star: "Regular season doesn't matter. I couldn't care less what he does in the regular season. It's completely meaningless. Practice time essentially."

Marner struggles to produce at his normal rate through less than 1/3 of a regular season, while dealing with injuries and Covid stoppages and the lowest 5v5 OISH% of his career, and while still providing top-tier defensive play and chance generation, as the team continues to win: "OMG PANIC!!!!! I'M SO CONCERNED!!! GARBAGE PLAYER!!! OVERPAID!!! REMOVE HIM FROM EVERYTHING!!! WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY TO TRADE HIM AWAY!!!!"

You are right about the regular season and I was thinking that about the vet Muzzin turning it up at playoff time. Hoping Mitch can do the same or he will most likely be done as a Leaf.

 

[francis246]

You are right about the regular season and I was thinking that about the vet Muzzin turning it up at playoff time. Hoping Mitch can do the same or he will most likely be done as a Leaf.

he was mocking that sentiment lol..

 

[Gary Nylund]

The moment the contract was signed, I think most knew he'd never live up to it. Personally I think he's overpaid by about $3 mill, but we could argue about that all day, and really it's irrelevant at this point
There's no questioning his skill and talent, but the question becomes, for this team, is the 11 mill better spent elsewhere? Especially when 16 seems to be a tad fragile, and unlike AM, feels the heat and pressure. He doesn't deal with it well and comes across in the media as entitled and stand-offish

The other issue is with the coach and GM. Why keep putting him out there on the first PP? Why not move him to PP2 and maybe he gets some confidence back and pots a few. The refusal to do this opens up a lot of questions. Dubas has made promises to players before.

The moment it was signed, I thought is was possible (albeit unlikely) that he lives up to it but living up to it was a best case scenario. A fair contract of course is one where it's possible the player underperforms or outperforms it, unfortunately outperforming the contract was impossible. I expected a deal around 9 million, not sure I will ever forget the surreal feeling of shock when the deal was made public.

I'm not really a fan that worries or cares to that point, so I couldn't tell you. He's a good player, so I give him the same benefit of doubt that I afford to Matthews, that I afford to Nylander, Tavares, Rielly. To me I just need and expect him to come alive in the playoffs and I expect that for all our guys. Like I said the criticism is fair and just. He hasn't produced. But he is still coming back from a significant injury, he isn't going to be amazing right away. Just like Matthews wasn't either earlier on in the season. Right when he got injured he was playing very well which is probably why he was so pissed at muzzin in that moment. But if I had to answer that question directly, I'm not really concerned.

I think that has to do with I'm a sports fan in general and with other teams I follow and cheer for I've never seen such a polarizing player like Marner, and I just think NHL fans in general have sticks up their bums about the cap. It pretty much ruins the fan experience in my opinion and it's hard to not be so critical of players and how they perform on the ice and special teams. It's why the NHL stinks compared to the other major sports, but I love hockey so I still watch.

Oh yeah, come alive in the playoffs is all I ask for. I don't care if he puts up 60 or 120 points in the regular season, the playoffs are what matters most. I'm concerned about his performance not because his point totals probably won't be impressive this season, but because he's been playing poorly for some time now and he needs to turn it around before the playoffs start because I don't think he can just flip a switch when the games start. Plenty of time left still so let's hope he can do it but the longer his sub par play continues, the more reason there will be for concern. Don't think, just play the game!

Marner's poor play certainly hasn't ruined my experience, teams playing great. There's always some part of the team that's less than ideal, this season so far it's Marner. Hopefully by the end of the season it will be a less important piece of the puzzle that's not clicking, we really need Marner playing his best if we want to go deep.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Marner dominates, finishes 4th in league scoring with top tier defensive play, 1st team all-star: "Regular season doesn't matter. I couldn't care less what he does in the regular season. It's completely meaningless. Practice time essentially."

Marner struggles to produce at his normal rate through less than 1/3 of a regular season, while dealing with injuries and Covid stoppages and the lowest 5v5 OISH% of his career, and while still providing top-tier defensive play and chance generation, as the team continues to win: "OMG PANIC!!!!! I'M SO CONCERNED!!! GARBAGE PLAYER!!! OVERPAID!!! REMOVE HIM FROM EVERYTHING!!! WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY TO TRADE HIM AWAY!!!!"

Just because people aren't happy when Marner lives up to his contract in the regular season only to struggle in the playoffs doesn't mean people are going to be happy when he doesn't live up to his contract in the regular season

 

[Dekes For Days]

Just because people aren't happy when Marner lives up to his contract in the regular season only to struggle in the playoffs doesn't mean people are going to be happy when he doesn't live up to his contract in the regular season

If somebody is going to claim that the regular season is pointless and meaningless when Marner excels in it, but then completely 180 and put a bunch of importance on a small sample of regular season production results when he struggles to produce at his normal rate, that's a problem.

 

[supermann_98]

I could care less about Marner scoring 90+ points in the regular season if he goes gangbusters in the playoffs. Saying that though he's on a 0.81 ppg pace which over a full 82 game season is 66 points ... not nearly acceptable based on his contract but whatever, if he performs when it counts I'm good.

If he doesn't perform and we're out in the 1st round again I don't expect him back next year, and if Dubas doesn't have the cojones to trade him after going (all-in) on this guy last off season, well he has to go too

 

[ToneDog]

I could care less about Marner scoring 90+ points in the regular season if he goes gangbusters in the playoffs. Saying that though he's on a 0.81 ppg pace which over a full 82 game season is 66 points ... not nearly acceptable based on his contract but whatever, if he performs when it counts I'm good.

If he doesn't perform and we're out in the 1st round again I don't expect him back next year, and if Dubas doesn't have the cojones to trade him after going (all-in) on this guy last off season, well he has to go too

Dubas deserves credit for the success of the team but he did bet his job on the core and if the core fails to win a round again, it will be interesting to see whether he gets to keep his job and continue to bet his job on the core or asked to move Marner or is fired altogether.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Dubas deserves credit for the success of the team but he did bet his job on the core and if the core fails to win a round again, it will be interesting to see whether he gets to keep his job and continue to bet his job on the core or asked to move Marner or is fired altogether.

Dubas deserves the credit but he also deserves the blame when we keep getting dusted in the playoffs. That's just life, the buck stops with the GM. It's sad that we're speculating on what happens if we lose in the 1st round again at a time when the team is playing better than ever but considering that losing in the 1st round has kind of become our trademark, it's also understandable. Dubas has done a great job IMO, he's made a few mistakes but overall I like what he's done and don't want to lose him as the GM. On the other hand, there's only so many times you can keep losing in the 1st round and keep your job, sure hope Dubas wins a round before he breaks that record.