Toronto has scored 11PPGs since Marner injury

[Orfieus]

Marner has been injured for 6 games now and Toronto power play has taken off. I have always said Marner should not be on the PP1, having 5 shooting threats >>> 4 shooting threats + 1 passer

So without Marner on the top PP unit and Keefe forced to ice 5 scoring threats this is what happened,

Gm1: Minny - 2 PPGs (Spezza, Matthews)
Gm2: Winnipeg - 2 PPGs (Bunting, Matthews)
Gm3: Columbus - 2 PPGs (Nylander, JT)
Gm4: Tampa - 2 PPGs (Kase, Nylander)
Gm5: Chicago - 2 PPGs (JT, Matthews)
Gm6: Edmonton - 1 PPG (Matthews)

I'm fairly positive all 11 goals were scored on the 1st PP unit. It really shows just how much better the power play is when you ice 5 scoring threats, it forces the defense to respect each shooter and open lanes. When Marner is on the ice it allows the PK unit to shrink the box and allows them to give up the Marner shot and focus on the passing lanes

Please Keefe look at the stats, look at how dominate Toronto is without Marner on the 1st PP unit.

Keep Marner off of PP1!!!

Click to read more...

 

[tom leafers]

The PP was way to predictable with Marner on it because you knew 99% of the time he was passing or the 1% he would unleash his muffin shot.

id support this- put him on pp2 and pk so he still gets his ice time

 

[Aashir]

I’d say if the pp is still hot you keep them together and give him the pp2

once they inevitably falter he slots back in for Kase

 

[ponder]

I think Marner is a great player, but also think PP1 is better without him. He’s obviously an unreal puck handler and playmaker, but he’s also puck dominant (an issue on a stacked PP where you’d like to see the puck move around more), a bit wild/risky (turns it over a lot and then we waste 10-30 seconds regaining the zone), and has a poor shot. Better to have a PP1 full of guys who have great shots, who all keep possession beautifully, that’s unpredictable with the attack coming from anywhere.

When we’re fully healthy I’d like to see:

PP1: Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Spezza, Sandin
PP2: Marner, Kerfoot, Bunting, Kase, Rielly

PP2 can be more of a wild/chaotic, take chances, scrambling PP. While PP1 is just methodically breaking teams down with elite finishers.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner is one of the best PP players in the league since he entered it.

You're incorrectly attributing a PP hot streak caused by converting at a wildly unsustainable rate to a lack of Marner, when there's really nothing to support that.

 

[ACC1224]

I think it’s more a coincidence than anything but I’m sure the Coaches will know best.
I’d be surprised if he doesn’t return to the top unit. I’ll also be surprised if they continue at the pace it’s currently at without him.

Anyone remember what their rank was before he went down?

 

[Zybalto]

It's hard to say really.

The PP was a mess in October but over the next month (Nov. 1st to Marners injury), the Leafs were one of the hotter PPs in the league boasting the 5th highest goals/60 and 2nd highest xGF, and that was with Marner on it.

It could be just a continuation of the revamped PP settling into dominance or the real deal but 6 games is way too small a sample size, especially with the "getting a good bounce/goalie giving up a soft one" aspect of many of the goals scored. It would actually be a blessing if we could rock two super units but the fact that larger sample sizes show the PP is significantly better with Marner on it, even when incorporating the last few games, means that a wait and see approach still needs to be done, and we are going to have some time till he gets back to take a look at it.

I'm sure happy we have been getting those PP goals though as the team might be on a nasty losing streak without them.

 

[Auston Marlander]

Holy recency bias batman!!!!!!

 

[Stephen]

I’m sure Marner can be on the PP1 and it can hum along like a machine as it has been lately, and he can pile on the points. The only lesson I’m taking away is it shouldn’t be run “through” him, which is to say don’t set it up like he’s going to QB from the side wall and everyone is standing around waiting for him to Gretzky it.

 

[Varcus]

Maybe just Maybe Matthews is on a heater and JT and Nylander are pretty good players. Marner is a good player and part of the core but he isn't the only piece

 

[zeke]

This is why I was so excited about Mitch moving to the bumper spot in preseason.

Because almost no team has two triple threat entry/pass/shot weapons like Auston and Willy to play on both sides of the PP. IMO that has to be the foundation of the PP. Both make super quick decisions - if the shot is open they take it, if it's not they move the puck quickly and dangerously.

Mitch has to figure out how to make the middle work for him - on the perimeter he overhandles the puck and is given plenty of space to fo so because they don't fear the shot.

Mitch could be dynamite in the middle if he accepted the role.

 

[Stephen]

This is why I was so excited about Mitch moving to the bumper spot in preseason.

Because almost no team has two triple threat entry/pass/shot weapons like Auston and Willy to play on both sides of the PP. IMO that has to be the foundation of the PP. Both make super quick decisions - if the shot is open they take it, if it's not they move the puck quickly and dangerously.

Mitch has to figure out how to make the middle work for him - on the perimeter he overhandles the puck and is given plenty of space to fo so because they don't fear the shot.

Mitch could be dynamite in the middle if he accepted the role.

Or maybe you just let him run some reps on PP2 in clean up time doing whatever he wants and have him play a little more free than running routes and getting too static in positions and assigned roles. Let him get his feel back and then mix it up.

I don’t see a reason to shoe horn Mitch into something that’s working but you want to build him up so he’s firing on all cylinders later in the season and Toronto has many looks to throw at an opponent.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

assuming Marner ends up with a reduced role, there's no reason the powerplay can't be as good when he gets back. I'd still give up the elite powerplay in exchange for Marner's impact at 5v5 and on the penalty kill

 

[TMLeafer]

Could just be the fact that they score on the pps pretty quickly, but I'm seeing fewer drop backs on the entry. That's usually Marner and Spezza's move so both guys missing changes that. They're getting thr puck to thr net and banging them in, need to keep that up. They'll be welcomed additions back on thr PP but its great that the team kept it going in their absence.

 

[Orfieus]

Holy recency bias batman!!!!!!

What the hell are you talking about?

Toronto PP STRUGGLED this season. I'd agree over the last 2wks before Marner injury they were scoring a few PP goals but I wouldn't say they were dominate

Toronto PP was TERRIBLE last season that dragged on into the playoffs

It was terrible in the shortened season

And frankly the only thing I remember the season before that was Toronto PK was at like 50% against Boston in the playoffs

 

[Caroline Says ll]

Or a solution would be keep Marner on PP1 but if him coming down the sidewall doesn't work for the first attempt, shift Nylander there and Marner to the bumper and keep shifting it until it works. The real danger is just leaving everyone in the same spot when it is not working as was the case last season.

Marner's passing is an attribute to the PP - keeping him passing in the same spot is the flaw.

 

[Zybalto]

From some work I put in last weekend:

Looking at Marner and the PP:

Since the start of the 2019 season:

PP with Marner (and leaguewide rank out of the 114 forwards with 300+ PP minutes):
Shot/60: 62.4 (28th out of 114, 2nd on the team)
Expected Goals/60: 8.23 (23rd out of 114, 2nd on the team)
Goals/60: 9.23 (26th out of 114, 3rd on the team)

PP without Marner:
Shot/60: 50.79
Expected Goals/60: 6.51
Goals/60: 7.35


Just this season (and leaguewide rank out of the 135 forwards with 50+ PP minutes):

PP with Marner:
Shot/60: 77.88 (1st out of 135, 1st on the team)
Expected Goals/60: 10.13 (5th out of 135, 1st on the team)
Goals/60: 9.94 (31st out of 135, 4th on the team)

PP without Marner:
Shot/60: 56.88
Expected Goals/60: 7.56
Goals/60: 12.77

The Leafs have certainly gotten some nice bounces on the PP in Marner's absence while Marner is still saddled somewhat with the low shooting% of the first few weeks.

Really strong PP overall numbers from Marner this year though.

 

[Zybalto]

It does look like the PP coaching overhaul many of us wanted in the offseason has had positive results too.

 

[ACC1224]

Anyone remember what their rank was before he went down?

 

[Auston Marlander]

What the hell are you talking about?

Toronto PP STRUGGLED this season. I'd agree over the last 2wks before Marner injury they were scoring a few PP goals but I wouldn't say they were dominate

Toronto PP was TERRIBLE last season that dragged on into the playoffs

It was terrible in the shortened season

And frankly the only thing I remember the season before that was Toronto PK was at like 50% against Boston in the playoffs

In Marners career the PP is better with him on it, see below.

This season had a VERY rough start, but after they got over the hump it was moving well.

From some work I put in last weekend:

Looking at Marner and the PP:

Since the start of the 2019 season:

PP with Marner (and leaguewide rank out of the 114 forwards with 300+ PP minutes):
Shot/60: 62.4 (28th out of 114, 2nd on the team)
Expected Goals/60: 8.23 (23rd out of 114, 2nd on the team)
Goals/60: 9.23 (26th out of 114, 3rd on the team)

PP without Marner:
Shot/60: 50.79
Expected Goals/60: 6.51
Goals/60: 7.35


Just this season (and leaguewide rank out of the 135 forwards with 50+ PP minutes):

PP with Marner:
Shot/60: 77.88 (1st out of 135, 1st on the team)
Expected Goals/60: 10.13 (5th out of 135, 1st on the team)
Goals/60: 9.94 (31st out of 135, 4th on the team)

PP without Marner:
Shot/60: 56.88
Expected Goals/60: 7.56
Goals/60: 12.77

The Leafs have certainly gotten some nice bounces on the PP in Marner's absence while Marner is still saddled somewhat with the low shooting% of the first few weeks.

Really strong PP overall numbers from Marner this year though.

 

[zeke]

Or maybe you just let him run some reps on PP2 in clean up time doing whatever he wants and have him play a little more free than running routes and getting too static in positions and assigned roles. Let him get his feel back and then mix it up.

I don’t see a reason to shoe horn Mitch into something that’s working but you want to build him up so he’s firing on all cylinders later in the season and Toronto has many looks to throw at an opponent.

The 2nd unit gets very little toi and especially in important situations like the playoffs the top unit should get all the time imo.

Mitch should be able to make our top unit even deadlier - as long as he's willing to take a less dominant role.

 

[Notsince67]

I think it’s more a coincidence than anything but I’m sure the Coaches will know best.
I’d be surprised if he doesn’t return to the top unit. I’ll also be surprised if they continue at the pace it’s currently at without him.

Anyone remember what their rank was before he went down?

8th.
Really think that a 26.02 gf/60 rate since then might be a bit lucky though.
Oilers were 10.88 last year as a comparison.

Since Marners injury, PP% is 52.4%
Best historical PP% of all time 1977-1978 Canadians 31.9%

 

[ACC1224]

8th.
Really think that a 26.02 gf/60 rate since then might be a bit lucky though.
Oilers were 10.88 last year as a comparison.

Since Marners injury, PP% is 52.4%
Best historical PP% of all time 1977-1978 Canadians 31.9%

Thanks, I didn't think it was that bad before he got hurt.

 

[Notsince67]

Thanks, I didn't think it was that bad before he got hurt.

I'm ranking based on GF/60. PP % might be different but I dont have the numbers on hand.

edit...found them it is the same but the variability between the top teams is pretty small

Team	PP%
Edmonton Oilers	35.9
St. Louis Blues	30.8
Anaheim Ducks	27.1
Dallas Stars	26.3
Calgary Flames	26.2
Boston Bruins	25.8
Nashville Predators	24.6
Toronto Maple Leafs	23.4
New York Rangers	21.3
Colorado Avalanche	21.3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Zybalto]

I'm ranking based on GF/60. PP % might be different but I dont have the numbers on hand.

Saw a preview saying they were 25.7% and 5th in the league prior to the Jackets game (only 2 games with out Marner) so your numbers are probably close.