Toronto FC: Toronto FC/Canada Soccer Discussion (2022 Edition) - Italy Edition

[robertmac43]

This is kind of cool for Mavinga;

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I hate say this, but we have too many Canadians on this team to be true contenders. Petrasso and Osorio are starters. Nelson, Schaffelburg, and Akinola are bench players. The others don’t have the quality to even be on the bench.

 

[Pink Mist]

I hate say this, but we have too many Canadians on this team to be true contenders. Petrasso and Osorio are starters. Nelson, Schaffelburg, and Akinola are bench players. The others don’t have the quality to even be on the bench.

Whats wrong with Canadians? Canada is the best team in CONCACAF

 

[robertmac43]

Love Toronto sports teams because there is always something to complain about....

Osorio is a great MLS standard player, Shcaffelberg was amazing last year for MLS standards and likely gets a look from European teams if he can string together another good year, Akinola had interest from big European teams before his injuries, and a lot of the others have been pro for a short period of time. Having Canadians is not an issue lol.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Whats wrong with Canadians? Canada is the best team in CONCACAF

Nothing wrong with Canadians. Something wrong with starting 5 Canadians in your first match and sometimes having 5 Canadians on the field at the same time at some point in other matches. Canada is a top team in CONCACAF, but only Osorio from TFC has been invited for this weekends match. We lost a quality Canadian in Laryea. The others are not even close.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Love Toronto sports teams because there is always something to complain about....

Osorio is a great MLS standard player, Shcaffelberg was amazing last year for MLS standards and likely gets a look from European teams if he can string together another good year, Akinola had interest from big European teams before his injuries, and a lot of the others have been pro for a short period of time. Having Canadians is not an issue lol.

So basically you agree with me. I have no problems with Osorio, Petrasso, Shaffelburg, and Akinola being on the field at some point in matches. They are good MLS players. Others like Nelson, Marshall-Rutty, Thompson, Okello, Achara, and Priso do not have the quality to be on the field on a contending team, nevermind as starters. If they are, the team isn't good enough to be a top ten team. If you're satisfied with being in the bottom third of the table, then by all means, start players from the academy.

 

[robertmac43]

Nothing wrong with Canadians. Something wrong with starting 5 Canadians in your first match and sometimes having 5 Canadians on the field at the same time at some point in other matches. Canada is a top team in CONCACAF, but only Osorio from TFC has been invited for this weekends match. We lost a quality Canadian in Laryea. The others are not even close.

Shaff was dynamite last year, arguably the best player on the team at times. Akinola is one of the best striker prospects in the league, some Dutch & Belgium teams looked into him as well as Prem and Championship teams.

Say what you will about Nelson, Perruzza, Okello, etc. They are raw prospects, going to need some time to grow into the pro-level. JMR is an exception, the kid is amazing technically and just needs to grow physically.

 

[robertmac43]

So basically you agree with me. I have no problems with Osorio, Petrasso, Shaffelburg, and Akinola being on the field at some point in matches. They are good MLS players. Others like Nelson, Marshall-Rutty, Thompson, Okello, Achara, and Priso do not have the quality to be on the field on a contending team, nevermind as starters. If they are, the team isn't good enough to be a top ten team. If you're satisfied with being in the bottom third of the table, then by all means, start players from the academy.

I do disagree with the first line. I think those players are and can be impact players in an MLS starting lineup. Oso clearly is that Shaff was last year, Akinola has been in the past.

For the younger Canadians, I think they are more than good enough to be pieces on a good MLS team. Look at some of the other MLS squads and the youth that get into big games. JMR, Priso, Nelson are close to and better than a lot of prospects across the league.

At the end of the day, this team will be as good as the big money investment players allow them to be. If Insigne is the star we think he will be and the other DP's step up to the plate, we should be well set up to be a good playoff team this season.

I don't think they contend this year because of all the new faces and the fact that Insigne is coming late, but they will over the next couple of seasons.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

You lost me at Shaffelburg was an impact player last year. You are really overselling the impact of Akinola as well. He was ok in a few games and only played at all because Altidore was injured. He did deserve to be a substitute.

At the end of the day, if you want to be a contending team, players like Priso, Okello, Marshall-Rutty, Thompson, Achara,and Nelson should not be starters, and most should not be substitutes. If you’re satisfied with finishing second from the bottom again, then keep starting a few of those five every game. But if you think they will ever be a part of a championship team, you’re mistaken.

Once again, I have no problem with Osorio, Akinola, and Petrasso starting. Nelson and Marshall-Rutty off the bench. That’s a good representation for the patriots. The rest are barely MLS quality.

 

[robertmac43]

You lost me at Shaffelburg was an impact player last year. You are really overselling the impact of Akinola as well. He was ok in a few games and only played at all because Altidore was injured. He did deserve to be a substitute.

At the end of the day, if you want to be a contending team, players like Priso, Okello, Marshall-Rutty, Thompson, Achara,and Nelson should not be starters, and most should not be substitutes. If you’re satisfied with finishing second from the bottom again, then keep starting a few of those five every game. But if you think they will ever be a part of a championship team, you’re mistaken.

Once again, I have no problem with Osorio, Akinola, and Petrasso starting. Nelson and Marshall-Rutty off the bench. That’s a good representation for the patriots. The rest are barely MLS quality.

Shaff had 6 goal contributions in 11 starts.... His non-penalty xG + xA was higher than Buchanan, Russel, Shinyashiki, and others who are top of the position. This was as a young professional playing on a team that had immense trouble finding the back of the net. Watching the games last year I always thought Shaff should have finished with more assists had we an MLS caliber striker all year.

I don't disagree with the second paragraph. As I said in my last post though, this team is not aiming to contend this season. Contention will be in the coming years and having some cheap home-grown talent that can grow into those starting positions is going to be an asset. All the players listed have shown some solid promise, the question becomes can they do it consistently at the MLS level? I think JMR, Priso, Petrasso will for sure do it. I have some reservations about Achara and Nelson at this point, but they could still offer some solid depth.

Akinola is a weird one. He has been really good in the past, got injured, and was then sought after by big MLS teams and teams from abroad. He is on big money for a non-DP so he will really need to step it up the season.

 

[Mathew]

I rather us play the Canadian kids and help them develop, I like with way the team is going, the last 2 to 3 years we where shit but never gave the Canadian kids a chance, even before we won MLS cup or had does 3 good years, I rather us use Canadian kids then have us roster full of Americans it is a joke, I like the direction this team is going and I hope it stays this way for the future.

 

[fancy lad]

Utlimately i am really dissapointed with the way the roster was put together given the some of the big players they brought in like Salcedo and obviously Insigne. I've got nothing against a youth movement, but having 4,5 academy players on the pitch at the same time is playing with fire and just a bad direction. It screams of unpreparedness. Surely they could have brought in more experienced MLS players at lower salaries? Even recently they lost Auro without a backup plan. unless the backup plan is just to stick an academy player in there.

Just watching some of the games this season and you can see the young players are not ready to be fulltime contributors. They show good technical ability and skill sometimes, but their decision making leaves A LOT to be desired.

I was pretty enthusiastic about the insigne signing, but they better get their shit in order in filling out the roster way better than they have so far. And none of this waiting around till the summer transfer window. They need players now.

 

[Joufreau]

Utlimately i am really dissapointed with the way the roster was put together given the some of the big players they brought in like Salcedo and obviously Insigne. I've got nothing against a youth movement, but having 4,5 academy players on the pitch at the same time is playing with fire and just a bad direction. It screams of unpreparedness. Surely they could have brought in more experienced MLS players at lower salaries? Even recently they lost Auro without a backup plan. unless the backup plan is just to stick an academy player in there.

Just watching some of the games this season and you can see the young players are not ready to be fulltime contributors. They show good technical ability and skill sometimes, but their decision making leaves A LOT to be desired.

I was pretty enthusiastic about the insigne signing, but they better get their shit in order in filling out the roster way better than they have so far. And none of this waiting around till the summer transfer window. They need players now.

This reads like someone who hasn't watched much TFC. This is the thing, the roster is not done being put together. Did you think that TFC would assemble a contending roster right out of training camp? Giving the academy grads an opportunity to play important minutes is essential to their development and that of the team. If anything, they've looked pretty good for the most part. Some decision making errors have happened with the young kids sure, but that is part of the learning and development. Let the kids play and see what we've got in them.

Everyone needs to get over Auro leaving. He didn't want to be here. IMO, Auro was never that good. I used to cringe every time he would get near the ball. The kids we have brought in (Petrasso, Chung, JMR, Shaff) are all already better than Auro.

Did we not just win our last game? Let's enjoy the ride.

 

[robertmac43]

I was pretty enthusiastic about the insigne signing, but they better get their shit in order in filling out the roster way better than they have so far. And none of this waiting around till the summer transfer window. They need players now.

It's a project even with Insigne coming in this year. It was always going to be that way. The youth are going to grow into some of those spots and I'm sure the addition of a player of Insigne's caliber will also be a plus for possible signings in the future.

As for Auro, he was solid going forward but was terrible at defending. I don't think they lost a player that was going to be a huge contributor to the team's future success. He's good but easily replaceable.

 

[robertmac43]

Did we not just win our last game? Let's enjoy the ride.

4 points through 4 games with a major DP not even in the country. A new manager and mix of new faces on the team.... It's honestly a solid start for this club! Enjoying it so far!

 

[fancy lad]

This reads like someone who hasn't watched much TFC. This is the thing, the roster is not done being put together. Did you think that TFC would assemble a contending roster right out of training camp? Giving the academy grads an opportunity to play important minutes is essential to their development and that of the team.

What are you talking about? Because i don't think 40% of the first team should be players fresh out of the academy (or similar lower tier soccer) means i haven't watched much TFC?

Name me a successful team that relies on so many inexperienced players.

I'm all for developing good young talent, but not by trial by fire. That's not a good environment. You imply that i excepted the team to contend out of camp, but I'll say this: i don't think the plan is to "rebuild" and let the kids figure things out. you don't bring in a player like Insigne for massive money to a team like that. The team needs a more balanced roster for sure. That's all i am saying

 

[Joufreau]

What are you talking about? Because i don't think 40% of the first team should be players fresh out of the academy (or similar lower tier soccer) means i haven't watched much TFC?

Name me a successful team that relies on so many inexperienced players.

I'm all for developing good young talent, but not by trial by fire. That's not a good environment. You imply that i excepted the team to contend out of camp, but I'll say this: i don't think the plan is to "rebuild" and let the kids figure things out. you don't bring in a player like Insigne for massive money to a team like that. The team needs a more balanced roster for sure. That's all i am saying

How else do you see if the academy players are ready other than letting them play games? By your logic we sign a bunch of experienced players on "low salaries" as stop gap options, our academy grads ride the pine and are completely untested by the time we are ready to be contenders. We have a young team for sure but we also have a good mix of experienced veterans to help ease the transition so I'd say it's actually a really good environment to bring these kids into.

If you don't think this team is rebuilding this year then my comment about you not watching much TFC was spot on. Luckily this isn't the NHL and we don't need to rebuild through the draft over a number of years.

I'd actually argue that the Insigne signing is all the more reason to play the kids now. See what you have in them, move on from the ones you don't see having a future here and keep building the team around the rest.

 

[robertmac43]

Lol yeah, this is a big rebuilding year. The club said last year they were going to go with more youth and here we are using more youth. Don't know what else you expected from that.

Name me a successful team that relies on so many inexperienced players.

There have been many successful young teams. Off the top of my head Red Bulls, FC Dallas, and LAFC come to mind in recent years. LAFC actually has a similar trajectory to us. Vela = Insigne, then they had a couple of strong older players in the mix with some homegrown players to fill out the roster. The Philadelphia Union has had a nice balance in recent seasons with lots of youth, the Chicago Fire current has some solid HG's with a big DP signing in Shaqiri.

What are you talking about? Because i don't think 40% of the first team should be players fresh out of the academy (or similar lower tier soccer) means i haven't watched much TFC?

I really don't think it's 40% when you actually look at it. By the summer the lineup could look something like this. Well-balanced team with options throughout each position.


Insigne (30)- Jiminez (28)

Petrasso (21) - Oso (29) - Bradley (34)- Poz (30) - Shaff (22)

Salcedo (28) - Mavinga (30) - O'neil (28)

If we get in a Criscito type player there is another older guy to step into the lineup and push one of O'Neil/ Mavinga to the bench as a rotation guy.

Subs:

Akinola (22)
JMR (17)
Nelson (19)
Priso (19)
Achara (24)
Okello (21)
MacNaughton (27)
Chung (23)

 

[fancy lad]

How else do you see if the academy players are ready other than letting them play games? By your logic we sign a bunch of experienced players on "low salaries" as stop gap options, our academy grads ride the pine and are completely untested by the time we are ready to be contenders. We have a young team for sure but we also have a good mix of experienced veterans to help ease the transition so I'd say it's actually a really good environment to bring these kids into.

If you don't think this team is rebuilding this year then my comment about you not watching much TFC was spot on. Luckily this isn't the NHL and we don't need to rebuild through the draft over a number of years.

I'd actually argue that the Insigne signing is all the more reason to play the kids now. See what you have in them, move on from the ones you don't see having a future here and keep building the team around the rest.

terrible take.
You must not watch soccer or pretty much any sports if you think a team brings in a mega superstar (which Insigne would be in the MLS) in a rebuilding year. Nor would he want to be here if he was on a team which will be a bottom dweller. Obviously they courted him with the idea that he will be part of a winning team.

Said team lacks depth right now. period.

 

[Joufreau]

terrible take.
You must not watch soccer or pretty much any sports if you think a team brings in a mega superstar (which Insigne would be in the MLS) in a rebuilding year. Nor would he want to be here if he was on a team which will be a bottom dweller. Obviously they courted him with the idea that he will be part of a winning team.

Said team lacks depth right now. period.

I don't know what to tell you. Open your eyes and look at what is happening. There is a clear youth movement at TFC and Insigne is coming this summer.

Clearly those two things can coexist, because they already are.

 

[fancy lad]

Clearly those two things can coexist, because they already are.

It's not an ideal scenario.
management was also intent on bringing in more signings now (not later in the season) but that fell through. That says that they're not content with the team depth right now either.

 

[Joufreau]

It's not an ideal scenario.
management was also intent on bringing in more signings now (not later in the season) but that fell through. That says that they're not content with the team depth right now either.

No one is questioning the lack of depth. It's been a well documented point of discussion since the preseason.

You first need to build the foundation of the team, then fill out the roster with depth.

 

[robertmac43]

terrible take.
You must not watch soccer or pretty much any sports if you think a team brings in a mega superstar (which Insigne would be in the MLS) in a rebuilding year. Nor would he want to be here if he was on a team which will be a bottom dweller. Obviously they courted him with the idea that he will be part of a winning team.

Said team lacks depth right now. period.

The language before the Insigne signing was that the club was going to be rebuilding with Bradley in charge. Post Insigne signing it changed to retooling. Obviously, he speeds up the process, but he does not send us right into contender territory.

By a lot of accounts, Insigne was sold on an exciting project with heavy investment from the club. With that being said this was never going to be the year of contention. They will take steps in the right direction this year and then aim to content again in 2023,24, and 25.

Said team lacks depth right now. period.

No... you said:

because i don't think 40% of the first team should be players fresh out of the academy

Which I have shown it isn't....

From a depth perspective, they would obviously want to get better but the club really is not that far off. Insigne + another player will really round them out in the summer.

 

[trellaine201]

One point and we are in Qatar? at least my colleague told me.

 

[Bjindaho]

One point and we are in Qatar? at least my colleague told me.

Mathematically, it is 2. 1 point and Panama could tie us in the standings (we WILL win goal differential unless they make up 13 goals, but mathematically, GD doesn't resolve until all games are played).

Realistically, this is a weird spot to be in. As much as winning one could allow for us to dress younger guys, there is actually significance to us to win as many as possible (namely, improving our world ranking to avoid being in a pool at the World Cup with 2 giants). Therefore, we should play Costa Rica to win (and clinch it), dress a lighter lineup against Jamaica (which we could still win with) then bring back the big boys against Panama (even if it is a meaningless game for qualifying itself)