Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[ITM]

Well, his job in Nashville is going to be a lot easier than in a tandem arrangement here. But I don’t mind Lankinen generally as a stop gap.

I think it would have been easier here as well. Certainly good enough to patch past last regular season's statistical dip (Jack's slump) and maintain our upper conference position.

Of all the goalies that changed teams this summer, is Murray the best playoff goalie under 30?

I'd think so. He's the most decorated and for the majority of his Penguins stint he was excellent. Question is which Murray will we get...when he's healthy?

 

[ITM]

Murray and Samsonov are better than Lankinen. Lankinen is the equivalent to Mrazek.

We don't know what Murray and Samsonov will be. I hope they're the best option in hindsight. I hope at the end of the season (to whatever team end, win or lose) that we have the fortunate problem of having to choose which one to move forward with.

As for Lankinen being the equivalent of Mrazek...Well, Lankinen is: Cheaper; Healthier; Younger. All things being equal, Lankinen, purely on those qualifications is the better choice to me. However, I think Lankinen's underrated and wasn't able to display his finished form.

I say on a decent club (ie Nashville, Toronto, etc...) Lankinen sees his way to good backup numbers. I think he translates to a consistent .910 - .915 save percentage and a somewhere between 2.60-2.90 GAA.

That's my faith prediction. And I think Charlie Lindgren surprises this season in Washington.

At any rate, we'll see.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I think it would have been easier here as well. Certainly good enough to patch past last regular season's statistical dip (Jack's slump) and maintain our upper conference position.


I'd think so. He's the most decorated and for the majority of his Penguins stint he was excellent. Question is which Murray will we get...when he's healthy?

Has he ever had a bad playoff?

We don't know what Murray and Samsonov will be. I hope they're the best option in hindsight. I hope at the end of the season (to whatever team end, win or lose) that we have the fortunate problem of having to choose which one to move forward with.

As for Lankinen being the equivalent of Mrazek...Well, Lankinen is: Cheaper; Healthier; Younger. All things being equal, Lankinen, purely on those qualifications is the better choice to me. However, I think Lankinen's underrated and wasn't able to display his finished form.

I say on a decent club (ie Nashville, Toronto, etc...) Lankinen sees his way to good backup numbers. I think he translates to a consistent .910 - .915 save percentage and a somewhere between 2.60-2.90 GAA.

That's my faith prediction. And I think Charlie Lindgren surprises this season in Washington.

At any rate, we'll see.

I've seen Lankinen enough (watched him and had him in fantasy) to say you aren't missing much with him.

Samsonov is the jewel of the goalies right now if he can fix between his ears.

 

[deprw]

Calculated gamble seems accurate to me and it definitely has the potential to pay off big. Amazing that the majority is acting as if we lost this gamble before Murray's even played a game.

If this was the guy Dubas wanted it was right that he acquired him. It falls on him anyway, so he chose his goalie. I'd rather let him pick a guy that he trusts rather than deeming him too expensive and going after player that basicly takes same cap number on longer term. Does it really matter. Worst case would have been going on budget options and then hearing mid-season rumors that we wanted Murray and he plays well elsewhere.

If Murray fails it most likely means that Dubas regime fails and it might mean end of his tenure.

I can't say that any option on paper was surely better. We can evaluate it mid season. If we get Kuemper and he sucks we would be furious that we're paying him for four more years and Dubas is gone. It isn't that far fetched scenario with Kuempers history.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I’m hoping one of these shows like All or Nothing or The Leaf has footage of management discussing whether or not they should acquire Murray. I doubt everyone was on board and I bet there were some heated debates.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

The quietness of his style in that video reminds me of Ed Belfour. It was a weird edit: never smothers the puck, never catches the puck, never comes out to play the puck, never leaves the crease at all.

Ed Belfour was the second best puck handaling goalie of his generation lol. he did all of the things you named at a franchise goalie level..

 

[Dekes For Days]

Of course we do - when they brought back Campbell, it was still Fred who was starting more games.

In the period of time that both were on the team, Campbell started 28 games and Andersen started 33. And then Andersen was let go and Campbell was made starter.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

This is an excellent take.

I would also like to point out that the 25% retention moved Murray from the 5th highest goalie cap hit to where the Leafs are paying him the 22nd highest cap hit in the league. So the retention itself was a form of risk mitigation along with the 2 draft picks.

Of course we all wanted more, but with the reports of a second suitor now, it was a take it or move on scenario.

It's a calculated gamble that could go either way. But if he played up to last year's form after returning from being waived (minus the last game), it's a solid risk to take.

Another thing that I considered when taking a step back is that we are basing the Leafs on getting hosed on this deal based on what an alleged Murray to Buffalo swap would be, but we do not necessarily know what the full deal would have been.

All we know is that Murray nixed a deal there and that it would have included swapping BUF and OTT's first round picks on top of OTT retaining salary (which I believe was confirmed would have only been 25% as well).



That does not mean that BUF was not adding more into that deal. They may have been including 41st and 74th overall in there as well (or maybe swapping 28 and 39), which if you add in what we got for taking on Murray, is probably what it takes to move from 16 to 7.

We ultimately do not know, but we also do not know if the deal was just a straight swap of those two picks like everyone thought it was.

I still think the Leafs could have at least got a little bit more retention out of the deal or maybe a 2nd instead of a 3rd, but I think even I was probably selling Dorion a bit short on that one. He would have to be pretty stupid not to see that the goalie market was a little bit thin and that Murray, while needing a fair bit of retention and some kind of noticeable sweetener, is not a completely useless asset.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Murray's situation in Ott is really crazy, they misdiagnosed a shoulder injury and he might not have trusted the staff there and then they fired the goalie coach? maybe some stabilty and asurance will help him find his game. Don't like the cap hit but don't mind the potential in him with his playoff experience. Hopefully Sanford can get him up to speed! I'm actually more optimistic with these two guys than the last two

Fired the goalie coach and then Murray played better with the new coach.

 

[Racer88]

Fired the goalie coach and then Murray played better with the new coach.

Injury is the wildcard with Murray

 

[Tak7]

In the period of time that both were on the team, Campbell started 28 games and Andersen started 33. And then Andersen was let go and Campbell was made starter.

Andersen's injuries.

He was the starter despite Campbell playing well, until he got hurt.

 

[DarkKnight]

It's definitely a peculiar circularity we're inflicting upon ourselves. Repeatedly.

Don't mind the Samsonov gamble. Would have preferred him with Lindgren (the irony) or Lankinen. But asset acquisition relies so much on timing. And there's a string of moves where the identification of right order is just so peculiar.

As usual, hoping for the best.

Me too. I’m just noting we are “gambling” with both. Spin the wheel, you have two markers, but that’s generally not a recipe for success.

 

[deprw]

Me too. I’m just noting we are “gambling” with both. Spin the wheel, you have two markers, but that’s generally not a recipe for success.

Is there a team that acquired goalie this summer and isn't spinning the wheel?

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Is there a team that acquired goalie this summer and isn't spinning the wheel?

Leave it to Dubas to sign a goalie his team no longer wanted and have to trade down to get rid of him, to then follow that up again by bringing in another goalie whose team doesn't want him and has an even higher cap hit. Wtf is next. Bobrovsky I guess

 

[ToneDog]

Leave it to Dubas to sign a goalie his team no longer wanted and have to trade down to get rid of him, to then follow that up again by bringing in another goalie whose team doesn't want him and has an even higher cap hit. Wtf is next. Bobrovsky I guess

Interesting angle. Yuck. Look at it from the angle that it is only a two year deal and he is a 2 time SC winner. Ahh, much better.

 

[deprw]

Leave it to Dubas to sign a goalie his team no longer wanted and have to trade down to get rid of him, to then follow that up again by bringing in another goalie whose team doesn't want him and has an even higher cap hit. Wtf is next. Bobrovsky I guess

Interesting take and true. That same applies also to Campbell, Kuemper, Georgiev, Husso and all the other goalies. Talbot excluded but actually they didn't want him to be their starter since they signed MAF, so there it goes.

It's a gamble you take and I'm not sure that I like our pair more than Detroits, but I actually like it bit more than Colorados and in the end either of these three teams can end up being the Boston of the last season.

 

[DarkKnight]

Leave it to Dubas to sign a goalie his team no longer wanted and have to trade down to get rid of him, to then follow that up again by bringing in another goalie whose team doesn't want him and has an even higher cap hit. Wtf is next. Bobrovsky I guess

Ottawa fans still can’t believe it.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Ottawa fans still can’t believe it.

They also don't believe that Toronto has a better team than they do. One even claimed that this was because they have won as many playoff series as the Leafs have.

 

[Stephen]

Leave it to Dubas to sign a goalie his team no longer wanted and have to trade down to get rid of him, to then follow that up again by bringing in another goalie whose team doesn't want him and has an even higher cap hit. Wtf is next. Bobrovsky I guess

This feels like a Moneyball inspired David Justice to Scott Hatterberg play.

 

[BackPassChampions]

Great podcast. It's intriguing to hear Murray's fallout with the coaching staff and his injury last season was caused by Ottawa's medical staff. Also gives a more in-depth breakdown of Murray's/Samsonov's technique changes and reinforces why I was so excited to finally be able to replace Steve Briere with someone like Curtis Sanford.

Definitely have a listen if you haven't already.

 

[LeafEgo]

Not sure if it was panic. Dubas said they identified and really wanted Murray.

When a bottom feeder pays you to take their salary retained backup, after all the other available goalies are secured by other teams, a healthy amount of skepticism is warranted.

 

[saltming]

When a bottom feeder pays you to take their salary retained backup, after all the other available goalies are secured by other teams, a healthy amount of skepticism is warranted.

How were all other available goalies secured by other teams?
Campbell and Kuemper were still available. IIRC most of the UFA goalies were still available when the trigger was pulled.
Then there is also other trades available.
If this move was done close to October, then I would say it was a scramble but it was done as soon as the market opened

 

[Petrus]

Great podcast. It's intriguing to hear Murray's fallout with the coaching staff and his injury last season was caused by Ottawa's medical staff. Also gives a more in-depth breakdown of Murray's/Samsonov's technique changes and reinforces why I was so excited to finally be able to replace Steve Briere with someone like Curtis Sanford.

Definitely have a listen if you haven't already.

Thanks for Sharing this! I am feeling Feeling very optimistic about our Tandem!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Thanks for Sharing this! I am feeling Feeling very optimistic about our Tandem!

Me too, feeling a LOT better about our goaltending situation then I was a couple of weeks ago for sure. Still a big question mark, but I also feel like it's not such a long shot that this works out very well for us.

 

[justashadowof]

Mrazek as the 2022-23 starter would have been an optics disaster. As would have bravely entering the 2022-23 season using raw goaltending. Make no mistake, both of our goalies were discards after the 2021-22 season. One may have chronic injury issues. Both look and act like NHL starters. I would not have lowballed Campbell and signed 2 bargain (experienced) backups but this is hardly the worst outcome considering the summer market for goalies.