Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Al14]

Ottawa gave us a goalie and 2 draft picks for nothing other than the mysterious "future considerations".

Your interpretation of this as us getting "literally" nothing is hard to understand to put it mildly.


Term is the issue. If Campbell would have been willing to sign for 2 years at that price, he'd probably still be here.

Ottawa gave us nothing to take their SALARY DUMP! Dubas should have got more from Ottawa to help them out like he did. A first round pick should have been the price IMHO.

If it were the other way around, you know damned well Dubas would have been coughing up a first round pick. It cost him moving from a 1st round pick to a second round pick to get rid of Mrazek. It took a 1st round pick to get rid of 1 year of Marleau!

 

[wingman75]

The difference isn't just the money, it's the term. I love Soup and I really wish him the best, but that is a VERY risky deal for Edmonton and one I think they will regret.

Very good. As I replied to @Gary Nylund, term it is then. Thx

Good guy, enjoyed watching him. But with every other player in the league, if they are not on the Leafs, they can fall flat on their face for all I care lol.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ottawa gave us nothing to take their SALARY DUMP! Dubas should have got more from Ottawa to help them out like he did. A first round pick should have been the price IMHO.

If it were the other way around, you know damned well Dubas would have been coughing up a first round pick. It cost him moving from a 1st round pick to a second round pick to get rid of Mrazek. It took a 1st round pick to get rid of 1 year of Marleau!

If you think Dubas should have gotten more, that's an opinion that isn't entirely unreasonable. It's definitely an improvement on your original "literally nothing" comment which was absurd.

I definitely don't "damn well" agree with your opinion on what would have happened if it was the other way around. Dubas has made some good trades, some bad but I mostly like the trades he has made. That's just my opinion of course, you obviously disagree and that's fine but just taking for granted that he'd do poorly in some imaginary scenario just sounds like a hater hating.

You seem angry. I can understand that but still, it's just hockey dude, there are more important things life so I suggest you chill out a bit.

Very good. As I replied to @Gary Nylund, term it is then. Thx

Good guy, enjoyed watching him. But with every other player in the league, if they are not on the Leafs, they can fall flat on their face for all I care lol.

Hell yeah! I mean Kadri was my favourite player here for years and when he went, I wished him well but even with him, it wasn't long before I stopped caring about how he did.

GLG!!

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

The more this deal simmers, the more I like it.

Some guys (e.g. Binnington) just seem to be able to put it all together come playoff time. I’m wondering if Matt Murray does the same. During the regular season he just needs to put together average performances.

 

[Racer88]

Scare the core away? I'm pretty sure the core is well aware that their contracts are the reason the leafs have to get creative to get a #1 goalie.

I’m not sure if I can agree with that. I think the core four are carrying a sense of entitlement as far as their contracts go and probably don’t give a dam how their contracts affect the construction of the rest of the team. They will be lined up at the pay window trying to grind who ever is the GM at the time their contracts come due

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’m not sure if I can agree with that. I think the core four are carrying a sense of entitlement as far as their contracts go and probably don’t give a dam how their contracts affect the construction of the rest of the team. They will be lined up at the pay window trying to grind who ever is the GM at the time their contracts come due

Both things can be true, and probably are.

1-The core four understand that if they get every dollar they can, it will be harder to ice a cup winner.
2-The core four want to get every dollar they can anyway.

I can't begrudge them for getting all they can, it is a business after all. Once they sign though, they better be playing as hard as they can for us.

 

[Marmoset]

Both things can be true, and probably are.

1-The core four understand that if they get every dollar they can, it will be harder to ice a cup winner.
2-The core four want to get every dollar they can anyway.

I can't begrudge them for getting all they can, it is a business after all. Once they sign though, they better be playing as hard as they can for us.

I don't think you should blame the player for asking for the money, Every player asks for the money, You can blame management for giving it to them.

Reading several posts preceding with people liking the deal - even if you like the idea of Murray, I still don't see how to justify the dollars they are paying him. We didn't just get him for "nothing". Remember that the dollars spent on Murray are dollars not available for someone else.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't think you should blame the player for asking for the money, Every player asks for the money, You can blame management for giving it to them.

I don't blame them, I thought would be clear by me saying "I can't begrudge them for getting all they can, it is a business after all".

Reading several posts preceding with people liking the deal - even if you like the idea of Murray, I still don't see how to justify the dollars they are paying him. We didn't just get him for "nothing". Remember that the dollars spent on Murray are dollars not available for someone else.

Sure, cap space is spent on every player. The post I was responding to that started this however, stated that we got "literally nothing" in the trade. That's completely ridiculous and that's what I was responding to.

 

[Racer88]

Both things can be true, and probably are.

1-The core four understand that if they get every dollar they can, it will be harder to ice a cup winner.
2-The core four want to get every dollar they can anyway.

I can't begrudge them for getting all they can, it is a business after all. Once they sign though, they better be playing as hard as they can for us.

Yup and that’s the catch 22 of it

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

So you care to tell us how Dubas was not fleeced for Murray and Murray is a better option than Husso or Georgiev and that Leaf fans would not be happier with one of those two? Oh yeah let's not forget that some of the same posters are shitting on Soup now.

I figure enough people have tried to explain their opinion on that to you, which you have summarily dismissed as it does not fit your handful of ongoing narratives. I don't feel like wasting my time, yours or anyone else's here.

I don't even particularly like the move, but its not as horrific as some (you) are making it out to be.

 

[Zybalto]

I figure enough people have tried to explain their opinion on that to you, which you have summarily dismissed as it does not fit your handful of ongoing narratives. I don't feel like wasting my time, yours or anyone else's here.

I don't even particularly like the move, but its not as horrific as some (you) are making it out to be.

All the losing has really jaded some fans is all.

Andersen crumbled for 3 injury riddled years before posting an .895 his last season (with the other two main Leafs goalies up near .920) before he signed with the Canes and no one was giving them much trouble at all for taking the gamble on him staying healthy, one the Canes ultimately lost last year and no one even mentions that.

Lets see how Murray plays....

 

[AuraSphere]

How can any Leaf fan justify Dubas's move here. I'm ok with getting Murray - but the trade value is what is baffling

General manager Pierre Dorion first attempted a deal with the Buffalo Sabres, having arranged to send Murray and the seventh overall pick in the 2022 NHL Entry Draft to the Sabres in exchange for the sixteenth overall pick.[31] However, the Sabres had been included on Murray's no-trade list as part of his contract, and he declined to waive it

THIS WAS AT 50% RETENTION.

How is all we got 3rd round pick + 25%? Makes no sense.

 

[Zybalto]

How can any Leaf fan justify Dubas's move here. I'm ok with getting Murray - but the trade value is what is baffling

General manager Pierre Dorion first attempted a deal with the Buffalo Sabres, having arranged to send Murray and the seventh overall pick in the 2022 NHL Entry Draft to the Sabres in exchange for the sixteenth overall pick.[31] However, the Sabres had been included on Murray's no-trade list as part of his contract, and he declined to waive it

THIS WAS AT 50% RETENTION.

How is all we got 3rd round pick + 25%? Makes no sense.

No idea if this is true and no idea that it was more than an initial pitch if true.

....it sure gets a lot of clicks though doesnt it?

 

[stealth1]

After seeing what Comrie got in Buffalo I would went that route instead.

For those analytics junkies.

 

[AuraSphere]

No idea if this is true and no idea that it was more than an initial pitch if true.

....it sure gets a lot of clicks though doesnt it?

It's true. It was made public - not sure what more proof you need. This isn't eklund breaking the news, it was the NHL. It's the same sense of Dadonov vetoing his trade in the seeason. Hell it's on his wikipedia page.

 

[keonsbitterness]

How can any Leaf fan justify Dubas's move here. I'm ok with getting Murray - but the trade value is what is baffling

General manager Pierre Dorion first attempted a deal with the Buffalo Sabres, having arranged to send Murray and the seventh overall pick in the 2022 NHL Entry Draft to the Sabres in exchange for the sixteenth overall pick.[31] However, the Sabres had been included on Murray's no-trade list as part of his contract, and he declined to waive it

THIS WAS AT 50% RETENTION.

How is all we got 3rd round pick + 25%? Makes no sense.

Buffalo was also 25%. Ottawa would not do 50% with any team.

 

[ToneDog]

I figure enough people have tried to explain their opinion on that to you, which you have summarily dismissed as it does not fit your handful of ongoing narratives. I don't feel like wasting my time, yours or anyone else's here.

I don't even particularly like the move, but its not as horrific as some (you) are making it out to be.

Horrific is strong. Like I said, the experts (Ferraro was the last one I heard) are pretty much in agreement. In fact Ferraro questioned his game whereas I have not. My beef is with the cap hit and sweetener, given the Sens desperation to get rid of that contract. If Murray shits the bed the trade will be even worse. If he plays in the playoffs, the trade will not be so bad. Like I also said, time to move on and see how the kid performs.

 

[Zybalto]

It's true. It was made public - not sure what more proof you need. This isn't eklund breaking the news, it was the NHL. It's the same sense of Dadonov vetoing his trade in the seeason. Hell it's on his wikipedia page.

If the NHL officially put it out and all the details confirmed its all good then.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Horrific is strong. Like I said, the experts (Ferraro was the last one I heard) are pretty much in agreement. In fact Ferraro questioned his game whereas I have not. My beef is with the cap hit and sweetener, given the Sens desperation to get rid of that contract. If Murray shits the bed the trade will be even worse. If he plays in the playoffs, the trade will not be so bad. Like I also said, time to move on and see how the kid performs.

Fair - this is a very reasonable take.

I feel as if some of the other posts I've seen from you are a little more emotionally driven and a little more swayed to the 'horrific' side but that's neither here nor there.

I think for a lot of posters - both positive petes and negative neds - they start with reasonably arrived at takes and then for whatever reason they get more and more unreasonable as time passes especially when there are no games to be played. I guess that's why we're all fans though.

I agree....I'm going to wait until we see a few actual games before proclaiming this as a disaster or a success....most likely it will fall somewhere in between. I do wish they had gotten Ottawa to retain more but as someone who is not in the room for discussions and negotiations, perhaps there was a good reason.

But perhaps not.

 

[Gary Nylund]

How can any Leaf fan justify Dubas's move here. I'm ok with getting Murray - but the trade value is what is baffling

General manager Pierre Dorion first attempted a deal with the Buffalo Sabres, having arranged to send Murray and the seventh overall pick in the 2022 NHL Entry Draft to the Sabres in exchange for the sixteenth overall pick.[31] However, the Sabres had been included on Murray's no-trade list as part of his contract, and he declined to waive it

THIS WAS AT 50% RETENTION.

How is all we got 3rd round pick + 25%? Makes no sense.

It's ironic that you put this in caps - drawing attention to something that's simply not true.

 

[ToneDog]

Fair - this is a very reasonable take.

I feel as if some of the other posts I've seen from you are a little more emotionally driven and a little more swayed to the 'horrific' side but that's neither here nor there.

I think for a lot of posters - both positive petes and negative neds - they start with reasonably arrived at takes and then for whatever reason they get more and more unreasonable as time passes especially when there are no games to be played. I guess that's why we're all fans though.

I agree....I'm going to wait until we see a few actual games before proclaiming this as a disaster or a success....most likely it will fall somewhere in between. I do wish they had gotten Ottawa to retain more but as someone who is not in the room for discussions and negotiations, perhaps there was a good reason.

But perhaps not.

Yeah took me a day to move on. Some of the pro arguments did not help. I mean one poster claimed the Sens had zero leverage when the rumours started in the morning and then was defending the trade, ignoring that the retention and sweetener was not enough. I mean some fans were wanting Formenton, Norris, Pinto, Zub, a 1st, 75% retention etc.

No ill will toward Murray. Hope he stays healthy and helps us in the playoffs.

 

[saltming]

I hope Murray can be the guy who won 2 SCs but that was how many years ago ?? The trade is most likely a mistake but I'm done debating it to death. Everybody needs to move on and let it play out. Expect the worst, hope for the best.



Some on the main boards were laughing at his catching hand.

The main boards are special.

 

[Statsman1]

Regardless of who we signed, we are all hoping to just not get our hearts broken yet again…so it is easier to already expect the worst.

With Murray/Samsonov, all we can really do now is just hope for the best. Time will tell.

Go Leafs Go.

 

[Big Muddy]

How can any Leaf fan justify Dubas's move here. I'm ok with getting Murray - but the trade value is what is baffling

General manager Pierre Dorion first attempted a deal with the Buffalo Sabres, having arranged to send Murray and the seventh overall pick in the 2022 NHL Entry Draft to the Sabres in exchange for the sixteenth overall pick.[31] However, the Sabres had been included on Murray's no-trade list as part of his contract, and he declined to waive it

THIS WAS AT 50% RETENTION.

How is all we got 3rd round pick + 25%? Makes no sense.

Its a crappy deal for sure. Most people thought it would take 50% retention on the Senators part, if in fact, he was even movable at all. Let's not forget that the Senators waived Murray last year and no team claimed him.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

I don't think you should blame the player for asking for the money, Every player asks for the money, You can blame management for giving it to them.

Reading several posts preceding with people liking the deal - even if you like the idea of Murray, I still don't see how to justify the dollars they are paying him. We didn't just get him for "nothing". Remember that the dollars spent on Murray are dollars not available for someone else.

Who is that someone else?

It's not like the Leafs were going to be able to get two experienced goalies for small enough number to allow them to chase a difference maker in FA. Sure, Murray has 2 years on his deal but even that fits our cap structure because Matthews and Nylander are both FAs after 2 seasons, along with a handful of other players (e.g. Muzzin & Brodie), which will allow them to get creative then.

At the end of the day, the Leafs were always going to be hamstrung cap-wise this off-season and most likely the next as well. The fact they were able to get an experienced goalie to fit in during this timeframe is a good thing.

Now, the only thing they need to do is sign Sandin and fit his contract under the cap somehow.

This offseason Leafs fan should be getting excited about new faces like Robertson, Anderson, and Steeves potentially making the cut and Sandin/Liljegren developing, not Free Agent signings.