Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] Marner re-signs (6 years, $10.893M AAV) Part III

[Merrrlin]

I think you underestimate how often Leaf fans show up in every thread and compare whatever's being talked about to the Leafs. Including playoff series threads after they've been eliminated. Which leads to fans in that thread talking about the Leafs, or just bringing them up in other threads, which leads to more Leaf fans in other team threads defending themselves. It's a vicious cycle.

I can't speak historically, but in this thread, it seems like people bringing up Dubas is what started this, not Leaf fans?

Seems like Dubas gets brought up in every single thread actually. I like the guy, so it's very noticeable.

 

[DFC]

I can't speak historically, but in this thread, it seems like people bringing up Dubas is what started this, not Leaf fans?

Seems like Dubas gets brought up in every single thread actually. I like the guy, so it's very noticeable.

I think that's true for right now, because these negotiations have an effect, league-wide, and we're speculating on how big or small that is.

The Point thread basically turned into, "yeah, but taxes."

 

[Merrrlin]

I think that's true for right now, because these negotiations have an effect, league-wide, and we're speculating on how big or small that is.

The Point thread basically turned into, "yeah, but taxes."

Is that a problem, though? There aren't any new developments, and I actually found a few of the posts in there very educational.

 

[DFC]

Is that a problem, though? There aren't any new developments, and I actually found a few of the posts in there very educational.

Totally, and I agree. I'm just responding to why people are in Toronto threads. For me, the Marner deal is relevant to Point, sort of, and Toronto fans are in that thread to. But the tax thing brings them to a lot of TB threads. :p

I defend Leaf fans a lot. But in reality most of the more cordial fans discussing things here aren't saying much different than what's on toronto sports radio. So the idea of, "nothing to see here, these are team-friendly deals, and we are not the least bit concerned," gets some pushback.

 

[bobholly39]

Has there been any more news/info released about the 2 offer sheets Marner got?

any speculation from insiders as to which teams made them - or what the terms were? If not specific terms, any sense if they were for over 4 1st round picks, or not?

I personally feel that outside of Matthews (who signed before July 1st) - none of this year's RFA players are worth the gamble of 4 1st round picks, including Marner. So i'd love to find out if a team went that high.

I ask because - clearly Marner signing over 10.5M$ per year, anything below 4 1sts is less than even the Leafs were offering. So it leads me to think - maybe a team did go as high as 4 1st round picks

 

[Merrrlin]

Totally, and I agree. I'm just responding to why people are in Toronto threads. For me, the Marner deal is relevant to Point, sort of, and Toronto fans are in that thread to. But the tax thing brings them to a lot of TB threads. :p

I defend Leaf fans a lot. But in reality most of the more cordial fans discussing things here aren't saying much different than what's on toronto sports radio. So the idea of, "nothing to see here, these are team-friendly deals, and we are not the least bit concerned," gets some pushback.

I imagine Leaf fans are a lot like the crazed Giants and Mets fans around here - very passionate, and VERY aware of any kind of "unfair" disadvantage levied against their team, even if it's miniscule. I spent many a year listening to Yankee fans complain about how the Green Monster was an unfair advantage for the Red Sox and might swing a few games each season in their favour (more HRs, tougher to play defence, etc) and how that was a key to their success It's been less amusing since Cashman took over though

I get their point, and I can see why it's frustrating when it's handwaved, but one good/bad draft pick probably has more impact on a team's success than a decade of tax advantage. I am not 100% sold that bad or good contracts even heavily influence a team's success unless it's constant and always in the wrong direction (SNOW! I'm looking at you!)

 

[DFC]

I imagine Leaf fans are a lot like the crazed Giants and Mets fans around here - very passionate, and VERY aware of any kind of "unfair" disadvantage levied against their team, even if it's miniscule. I spent many a year listening to Yankee fans complain about how the Green Monster was an unfair advantage for the Red Sox and might swing a few games each season in their favour (more HRs, tougher to play defence, etc) and how that was a key to their success It's been less amusing since Cashman took over though

I get their point, and I can see why it's frustrating when it's handwaved, but one good/bad draft pick probably has more impact on a team's success than a decade of tax advantage. I am not 100% sold that bad or good contracts even heavily influence a team's success unless it's constant and always in the wrong direction (SNOW! I'm looking at you!)

LOL Garth Snow. Treated contracts like his goalie pads. Big, long, and quite possibly full of tennis balls.

Anyway, I think it's natural for their to be a lot of cross-over in these threads right now. I think every RFA thread has at least a small Leaf presence, but most are larger. Dubas signed a very large deal, and we're seeing the fall out now, league-wide, if there is one. So far it seems kind of minimal. The two forward deals since have been reasonable. Everybody's waiting on the bigger names.

 

[Holymakinaw]

I defend Leaf fans a lot. But in reality most of the more cordial fans discussing things here aren't saying much different than what's on toronto sports radio. So the idea of, "nothing to see here, these are team-friendly deals, and we are not the least bit concerned," gets some pushback.

Well we all know that Toronto has to overpay a bit for their star players......Toronto has the richest owners in the league and its no secret. And Toronto is also a fishbowl and is very hard to play in. So that costs more.

But so many UNFAIR comments I've read in here........."Marner almost has negative value"........"Dubas is a Dummy who got bent over"........"Leafs are in cap hell and will never be able to keep this core"............."Blah, blah, blah"(anything from The Winter Soldier)........make Leaf fans like me go the other way.

As long as so many haters keep making these silly, unfair comments, so will Leaf fans.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I defend Leaf fans a lot.

But in reality most of the more cordial fans discussing things here aren't saying much different than what's on toronto sports radio.

Which is a cesspool that thrives on negativity.

So the idea of, "nothing to see here, these are team-friendly deals, and we are not the least bit concerned," gets some pushback.

I literally haven't seen a single person in all of these threads in the trade forum or the Leaf forum say that this is a "team friendly" deal. It's just not the massive overpay everybody thinks it is based on horrible valuation methods.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Totally, and I agree. I'm just responding to why people are in Toronto threads. For me, the Marner deal is relevant to Point, sort of, and Toronto fans are in that thread to. But the tax thing brings them to a lot of TB threads. :p

I defend Leaf fans a lot. But in reality most of the more cordial fans discussing things here aren't saying much different than what's on toronto sports radio. So the idea of, "nothing to see here, these are team-friendly deals, and we are not the least bit concerned," gets some pushback.

Who is saying that these are team friendly deals? From what I've seen, majority are not happy with the Marner contract.

Toronto sports media is more likely to bash the hell out of the leafs that support them it seems these days

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Has there been any more news/info released about the 2 offer sheets Marner got?

any speculation from insiders as to which teams made them - or what the terms were? If not specific terms, any sense if they were for over 4 1st round picks, or not?

I personally feel that outside of Matthews (who signed before July 1st) - none of this year's RFA players are worth the gamble of 4 1st round picks, including Marner. So i'd love to find out if a team went that high.

I ask because - clearly Marner signing over 10.5M$ per year, anything below 4 1sts is less than even the Leafs were offering. So it leads me to think - maybe a team did go as high as 4 1st round picks

Evidently it was Columbus and Minny that offersheeted Marner. Not much details other than that have been leaked.

 

[shortfuze]

It was meant for the other thread 6 players at 52M. Can't move it now. But if someone wants to, I would not be adversed to this. Still Marner's contract does play into this. So it is still related.

i understand it is related but it just seemed like you were only posting it to get a reaction from both leafs fans and non leafs fans.

 

[Merrrlin]

LOL Garth Snow. Treated contracts like his goalie pads. Big, long, and quite possibly full of tennis balls.

Anyway, I think it's natural for their to be a lot of cross-over in these threads right now. I think every RFA thread has at least a small Leaf presence, but most are larger. Dubas signed a very large deal, and we're seeing the fall out now, league-wide, if there is one. So far it seems kind of minimal. The two forward deals since have been reasonable. Everybody's waiting on the bigger names.

Well said, sir!

It will definitely be more enlightening when a top-tier guy signs beyond a bridge. I am very interested in Point, but he will likely be a bridge...maybe Rantanen will give us a 5 or 6 year deal to compare Dubas too. I would say Rantanen is at least as good, if not maybe a bit better. Tough to say.

 

[DFC]

Who is saying that these are team friendly deals? From what I've seen, majority are not happy with the Marner contract.

Toronto sports media is more likely to bash the hell out of the leafs that support them it seems these days

So why the backlash to fans simply saying these aren't team-friendly? I realize some comments go a lot, lot further than that. But definitely not all of them.

 

[CupsOverCash]

LOL Garth Snow. Treated contracts like his goalie pads. Big, long, and quite possibly full of tennis balls.

Anyway, I think it's natural for their to be a lot of cross-over in these threads right now. I think every RFA thread has at least a small Leaf presence, but most are larger. Dubas signed a very large deal, and we're seeing the fall out now, league-wide, if there is one. So far it seems kind of minimal. The two forward deals since have been reasonable. Everybody's waiting on the bigger names.

Agree the crazy RFA summer affected a lot of teams and its natural that there is cross over. I think Boston has handled their RFA summer very well. Got their guys on reasonable deals. No wonder they are always going fairly deep in the playoffs every year it seems.

 

[DFC]

Agree the crazy RFA summer affected a lot of teams and its natural that there is cross over. I think Boston has handled their RFA summer very well. Got their guys on reasonable deals. No wonder they are always going fairly deep in the playoffs every year it seems.

The Werenksi deal seems to have really helped Boston.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

So why the backlash to fans simply saying these aren't team-friendly? I realize some comments go a lot, lot further than that. But definitely not all of them.

Often because it is the same usual suspects in every leafs thread spewing the same BS. It grows tiresome and causes one to wonder why these people seemingly spend more time talking about the leafs than they do the team they actually follow.

 

[Xanner]

Did you also had the terms they signed for in those predictions? 8 years it had been on spot for A.M but 5, its a big difference. Marner at 8.5 for 8 had been acceptable compaired to his peers. Nylander 7x8 had been in line with his peers!

Personally if think M.M alone are overpaid by 3 m at that term, 4 m more then W.N is hilirious and then we have all the other compares around the leuage.

I had them all at a 6 year term because of the tavares signing, the leafs wouldn't have been able to sign them all under an 8 year term, i think its unfortunate that none of these kids decided to just take a little less, its not like they weren't going to cash in again after their current contracts are up.

 

[CupsOverCash]

The Werenksi deal seems to have really helped Boston.

Probably but I think they also have had their own internal cap structure. Besides Backes, they really dont hand out very many bad contracts. Well run team.

 

[DFC]

Probably but I think they also have had their own internal cap structure. Besides Backes, they really dont hand out very many bad contracts. Well run team.

Wasn't Backes before Sweeney too?

 

[CupsOverCash]

Wasn't Backes before Sweeney too?

He might have been. Thats just the only poor contract I can remember from them recently.

 

[Merrrlin]

I guess the good news for Leaf fans is that the circus is over. Should be 5 pretty stable years, especially if the cap goes up and they can lock up some of the supplement pieces. Not many teams can say they have their core locked up for the next 5 years. I am impressed Dubas got them all signed even with the Marleau and Zaitsev clunkers. Dubas didn't get team friendly deals, but he also hasn't made a big mistake yet as GM.

I look forward to having some clarity on the Isles future soon, hopefully a stable core for 5 or so years to coincide with Lee's deal and Barzal's prime. I would prefer to avoid bridge deals, even if the low cap looks nice now.

 

[Xanner]

I never thought about it like that. I'd agree completely that those cap hit's would have been appropriate, but the players seemed to all be "I don't worry about that stuff the agent takes care of it" aka the Leafs were never going to get a deal.

Gonna need the cap to go up though, and it will but how much. It's gonna be tight but I've been a Leafs fan a long time and it's nice to have actual "star" level players for once, glad they're all signed for years.

It is going to be tight but as long as the leafs have the current core intact they will be very good, no one in the leafs organization is losing their minds about their current situation like some people are here, there's a thread here about the leafs using 52 mill on 6 players, well those are 6 pretty darn good players which include 2 star centers and wingers a star D and a star goalie.

How many teams in the league do you think would say no to having a core like that locked up for multiple years?

 

[Merrrlin]

He might have been. Thats just the only poor contract I can remember from them recently.

That's why I am a bit surprised he bridged Carlo and McAvoy. Sweeney's best moves were locking up his forward core on long term deals which have all aged well. I was expecting him to do the same with McAvoy in particular - overpay him for a year or two, but ensure his longevity with the club. His 3 year deal was alright, and may be team friendly later, but it still leaves the door open in 3 years when Charlie gets some RFA rights.

 

[CupsOverCash]

That's why I am a bit surprised he bridged Carlo and McAvoy. Sweeney's best moves were locking up his forward core on long term deals which have all aged well. I was expecting him to do the same with McAvoy in particular - overpay him for a year or two, but ensure his longevity with the club. His 3 year deal was alright, and may be team friendly later, but it still leaves the door open in 3 years when Charlie gets some RFA rights.

Yea I thought maybe they would sign McAvoy to longer than they did but I think the AVV was good for him and Carlo deal is good considering how good he was for them in the playoffs.