Top 5 “can’t win with ‘em” players

[RickyLafleur]

Olli Jokinen

Does he count even though he only played in the playoffs once? 5 Points in 6 games isn't exactly terrible.

 

[CraigBillington]

Does he count even though he only played in the playoffs once? 5 Points in 6 games isn't exactly terrible.

I missed the playoffs qualifier haha.

 

[Zybalto]

My suggestion to you is to watch more hockey. People who watch alot of hockey voted for Karlsson to get those three Norris's (and two second places).

Anyone who watched his 2017 playoff run knows they were watching something special.

Like I said, Karlsson is an enigmatic player who runs hot and cold. He is a complicated player. But some keyboard jockey calling him a "career loser" and implying he is someone you can't win with is a joke.

Do better.

Yea, looking over the past 10 years, and then stretching out his stats to a season snapshot, Karlsson looks pretty damn good. Most people refuse or cant recognize its a team sport.

Points per game in the playoffs for dmen over the last 10 years: .864 (5th highest among all dmen over that stretch for all dmen with 20+ games)

Season totals (82 game pace):
72 points
+14

Considering the teams he was on and the fact point totals drop for most players, these numbers are fantastic for a dman.

I'd say about half of the players mentioned in this thread have been at least good playoff performers let down by other huge flaws on their teams if winning the cup is the benchmark.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Yea, looking over the past 10 years, and then stretching out his stats to a season snapshot, Karlsson looks pretty damn good. Most people refuse or cant recognize its a team sport.

Points per game in the playoffs for dmen over the last 10 years: .864 (5th highest among all dmen over that stretch for all dmen with 20+ games)

Season totals (82 game pace):
72 points
+14

Considering the teams he was on and the fact point totals drop for most players, these numbers are fantastic for a dman.

I'd say about half of the players mentioned in this thread have been at least good playoff performers let down by other huge flaws on their teams if winning the cup is the benchmark.

So, you only look at points? And especially dmen? Aren't they supposed to help keep the puck out of the net???

 

[Zybalto]

So, you only look at points? And especially dmen? Aren't they supposed to help keep the puck out of the net???

As an offensive dman, points are pretty big no? I also listed him as a +14 too meaning he wasnt a huge liability on D. If your a good offensive dman and a solid + player, your were certainly a huge asset, especially one who ranks in the top 5 for PPG.

Team success has a massive number of variables going on. You can be the best team in the world but if your keeper has a bad series, its over. You can have a bad keeper that makes big saves at the right time too. You can have a breakout playoffs from a young star or you can have a young star wilt under the pressure and cost you a big game.....and all these are just one player affecting the 20+ others.

Winning and losing changes everyones perceptions on players no matter how good or bad they played though despite the fact we are watching a league with big rosters and 32 teams with a hard cap. It's why I hope McDavid/Drai can pull one out as this chance may not come against regardless of how good they are.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So, you only look at points? And especially dmen? Aren't they supposed to help keep the puck out of the net???

His relative defensive possession numbers were very solid while in Ottawa, especially considering how much offense he provided. These are his numbers in his last 5 years there:

Relative/60 Metrics	For	Against	%
Corsi	7.62	-3.41	4.81
Fenwick	5.75	-1.64	4.39
Shots	3.93	-1.13	4.17
Expected Goals	0.28	0.00	3.08
Scoring Chances	2.97	-0.47	3.46
High Danger Chances	1.21	0.16	2.71

He was an overwhelmingly positive possession dman who was world class offensively and still quite good defensively. Considering how high risk of an offensive player he was, his defensive metrics are pretty impressive.

 

[Ossific]

Mark Scheifele. Yeah he'll score some points, but that's a 1C who will never win anything.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Ok....? Not a committed Karlsson apologist, or anything, but I read that as you shiting on Coffey. As if to say they both suck.
P. S. I just read it again and it still reads like they both suck.

Coffey could be effective on winners in the right circumstances. He was a competitor despite huge flaws in his game.

Karlsson is there for a paycheck and to pick up empty points. You can see the apathy in his game in nearly every play. Career loser, and his final legacy will be ruining the end of Crosby/Malkins career.

You should limit your "Karlsson bad" obsession to one post per thread. You don't seem to have anything to add to it.

You hate Karlsson, we get it.

There's nothing to hate, I don't know him personally. My opinion as an NHL defence player, he is trash at playing defence.

I don't care how insecure you are about the shortcomings of your favorite player, Lol.

 

[Astyanax]

Coffey could be effective on winners in the right circumstances. He was a competitor despite huge flaws in his game.

Karlsson is there for a paycheck and to pick up empty points. You can see the apathy in his game in nearly every play. Career loser, and his final legacy will be ruining the end of Crosby/Malkins career.



There's nothing to hate, I don't know him personally. My opinion as an NHL defence player, he is trash at playing defence.

I don't care how insecure you are about the shortcomings of your favorite player, Lol.

Yeah. Couldn't agree more about Coffey, hated to see him go; but then I saw him bring us back that wife lover, and back to back cups. Plus both are going to the hall, Paul's already there and Erik will be as soon as his done.

 

[dirtydanglez]

a decade ago kessel would have been at the top of everyone's list.

 

[Kuz]

Karlsson is there for a paycheck and to pick up empty points. You can see the apathy in his game in nearly every play. Career loser, and his final legacy will be ruining the end of Crosby/Malkins career.

He was a very good defenceman who played his prime for a weak Ottawa team which he carried to a cup final. Unfortunately his prime was cut short by injuries. He was still able to put up numbers, but didnt have the skating to be as good defensively any longer.

Would have expected better numbers in Pittsburgh for him, but it wasnt like he was gonna be the player getting them back to contender status with an already declining core.

 

[Gorskyontario]

He was a very good defenceman who played his prime for a weak Ottawa team which he carried to a cup final.

He never made it to a cup final. His career also was not cut short, he is still playing. He put up 100 points last year being the absolute worst defensive player I have ever seen(not counting ahl/echl talent getting the odd game).

Karlsson is a career loser, simple.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Elias Pettersson for sure.

 

[CanadaIsIrrelevant]

Top 2 “can’t win with ‘em” players
McDavid
Draisaitl

 

[Breakers]

Nurse

at his AAV, not possible

 

[FinlandPanther]

Starting to look like Draisaitl. Overrated loser with a temper. Guy gets talked about like a top 3 player and he’s not even in the top 30 without Mcdavid carrying him.

 

[TageGod]

Eichel, O'Reilly, Reinhart, Bogosian, Ullmark. Oh wait, never mind.

Sabres Fan.

 

[AvroArrow]

Starting to look like Draisaitl. Overrated loser with a temper. Guy gets talked about like a top 3 player and he’s not even in the top 30 without Mcdavid carrying him.

I'm curious to find out if he was playing through a significant injury or not, he was a non-factor in the finals

 

[Hockeyholic]

RNH

The ultimate passenger.

I'm curious to find out if he was playing through a significant injury or not, he was a non-factor in the finals

He must have been injured. Otherwise....yikes.

He seems to wear down during the postseason too. I have a feeling his new contract will be one that a GM regrets fairly quickly.

 

[CupInSIX]

Pavelski
Burns
E.Kane
E.Karlsson
Hertl

hm to retired players Thornton & Marleau

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

RNH

The ultimate passenger.


He must have been injured. Otherwise....yikes.

He seems to wear down during the postseason too. I have a feeling his new contract will be one that a GM regrets fairly quickly.

Holy god was RNH invisible

 

[Dirty Dog]

Starting to look like Draisaitl. Overrated loser with a temper. Guy gets talked about like a top 3 player and he’s not even in the top 30 without Mcdavid carrying him.

Dude has been a beast in the playoffs his whole career until the last two series. And his team was a few goals away from winning a cup, you can clearly win with him.

Don’t be a sore winner

 

[optimus2861]

Holy god was RNH invisible

To be fair, in the pregame the SN crew said that RNH had been ill the day before and hadn't taken part in the Oilers practice.

And he looked it. He had nothing in the tank. Any other night he probably doesn't play.

 

[FinlandPanther]

Dude has been a beast in the playoffs his whole career until the last two series. And his team was a few goals away from winning a cup, you can clearly win with him.

Don’t be a sore winner

He’s a good player but the way he’s talked about is hilarious. Guy rides the greatest player of our generation’s coattails.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

To be fair, in the pregame the SN crew said that RNH had been ill the day before and hadn't taken part in the Oilers practice.

And he looked it. He had nothing in the tank. Any other night he probably doesn't play.

Yeah but I didn’t notice him the entire series except when they showed his Butthead looking face and his pathetic excuse for facial hairs. It was funny seeing him standing next to Sam Bennett