Top 5 “can’t win with ‘em” players

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

You're right. His 8 goals in his last 43 playoff games would indicate he's still a good, useful player...

 

[Rorschach]

I'd have two different lists, one pre-current cap, one current-cap.

 

[Kegs]

Any one drafted by The Buffalo sabres

 

[orby]

For whatever reason, Ryan Reaves is the first player who comes to mind.

 

[Ruggs225]

Trouba is the correct answer. His cap hit is awful and he actively makes your team worse on the ice.

 

[The Nuge]

Having watched people say for years that you can't win with Phil Kessel, I think this is a ridiculous thread.

The difference is Kessel’s PPG goes from 0.77 in the regular season to 0.83 in the playoffs. You can’t win with him as your best player (which was usually what people said), but he’s still a good player who’s good in the playoffs.

Matthews for example goes from 1.15 in the regular season to 0.87 in the playoffs. When people talk about players you win with in the playoffs, they’re talking about guys who elevate their game. Matthews is the highest paid player in the league next year and isn’t even among the top 25 in points per game. He’s even below Marner, who Toronto fans blame for losing

 

[Realgud]

Having watched people say for years that you can't win with Phil Kessel, I think this is a ridiculous thread.

With all due respect, people mention players that are considered to be the main guys on their team. Kessel became a complementary piece in Pittsburgh. People aren't out here saying you can't win with guys like Nolan Foote or Mike Reilly. For example, and I know this is going to sound like a hot take, I think even Matthews could win if he was centering the fourth line of a team like Florida.

 

[SquidNasty]

That’s an extremely strange list considering you have players who are actually playing in the CONFERENCE FINALS as we speak meaning that they’ve already done more than 28 other teams.

Why don’t you have guys like Giroux, Dahlin, Larkin who can’t even get their teams to the post season let alone win something

Larkin is such a competitor and always comes up clutch, it’s not his fault the roster has never been good enough

 

[AvStock]

Huberdoo
Marner
Matthews
Thornton
Marleau
Giroux
Hellebyuck
Panarin
Zijanibad
Aho
Duchene
Pavelski
Robertson
Tavares
Rielly
Guentzel
Gaudreau
Benn
Seguin

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

With all due respect, people mention players that are considered to be the main guys on their team. Kessel became a complementary piece in Pittsburgh. People aren't out here saying you can't win with guys like Nolan Foote or Mike Reilly. For example, and I know this is going to sound like a hot take, I think even Matthews could win if he was centering the fourth line of a team like Florida.

Kessel was such a complimentary piece in Pittsburgh that he led the team in goals and points during their 2016 cup win, getting robbed of the Conn Smythe.

 

[The Nuge]

Martin Rucinsky has a lower plus/minus than he has total playoff points.
Mike Stapleton has a career playoff points-per-game of 0.03

I'd take Thonrton and Matthews ove either of them AINEC. lol

You have to include context though. Stapleton was a ~20 point bottom 6er who never even made 500k in a season. Nobody is claiming guys like Matthews and Thornton are the worst players in the league. Just that their production drops come playoff time. When you’re paying Matthews to put up 69-38-107 this season, you don’t have the depth to overcome him scoring at a pace of 16-50-66

 

[The Nuge]

Kessel was such a complimentary piece in Pittsburgh that he led the team in goals and points during their 2016 cup win, getting robbed of the Conn Smythe.

He did it playing on that insane HBK 3rd line though. He was precisely what you would describe as an elite complimentary player. Teams had to worry about the Crosby and Malkin lines, which let the HBK line cause so much damage

 

[banks]

These lists are a bit dumb. I mean, people thought Yzerman couldn't win until he did. People said you can't win with Phil Kessel, but then he did. People said Ovie didn't play the right way to win, but then he did.

But I bet no one would be against a prime Pavel Bure joining their team, or Lundqvist, but they never won a Cup. Was Iginla someone you can't win with?

So who's to say who you can or can't win with?

 

[Realgud]

Kessel was such a complimentary piece in Pittsburgh that he led the team in goals and points during their 2016 cup win, getting robbed of the Conn Smythe.

Good point but no one would say he was the main guy over Crosby and Malkin lol

 

[Cowumbus]

Laine has significant role winning Liiga and WHJC

This is the NHL.

 

[Rorschach]

Good point but no one would say he was the main guy over Crosby and Malkin lol

I don't think one conflates to the other, especially in this era where having 4 lines that do stuff is what is normal for Cup Final and Cup winning teams. You can say a Malkin or Crosby winning a Conn Smythe but without a guy like Kessel busting up other teams' 3rd pairs and bottom sixes, you don't win the Cup to win the Conn Smythe.

 

[TS Quint]

MATTHEWS
Huberdeau
Pettersson
Tavares
Kaprisoft

 

[Astyanax]

It's a dumb premise.

You can win, or lose, with anyone in the NHL, a single position player simply doesn't have that much impact in the overall picture. Take someone who plays 20:00/game, that's 1/3 of 1/6 of the on-ice team, or 1/18th (5.5%) of the collective effort.

The only argument that might make sense is a goalie that just mentally collapses under the pressure.

In the late 80's people were writing about Jordan being a flashy scorer who didn't have it what it takes to win, and that's the NBA, where a single player has a much larger impact,

When a player underperforms in the playoffs, the easiest and laziest thing to do is label them as "can't win with them."

It's a fine premise. And you are also correct to say any team can win or lose despite the odds. However, I do think some players will always drag a team down. He's retired, but Rick Nash is a prime example. Just wait until he gets out of Columbus, they said, and then he did with the same results.

 

[Fatass]

I read this as the type of player a club can’t win with. Guys who only play hard when they have the puck but don’t contribute the other 95% of the time they’re on the ice. Zegras is young, so can learn but he’s the kind of guy I think clubs would struggle winning with.

 

[Astyanax]

Phil Kessel can't hear you because his Stanley cup rings are blocking his ears.

Thank you. Love him or hate him he has 3 with 2 different teams, so I just can't see him on this list.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Phil Kessel is a lightning rod because he played for the leafs. The same fanbase that booed Larry Murphy.


Kessel doesn't care about respect in the handshake line, he wanted to win. He was hated by toronto media because of that.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Huberdoo
Marner
Matthews
Thornton
Marleau
Giroux
Hellebyuck
Panarin
Zijanibad
Aho
Duchene
Pavelski
Robertson
Tavares
Rielly
Guentzel
Gaudreau
Benn
Seguin

Is that why he's god tier in that playoffs? 67 points in 69 games, damn nearly set the rookie playoffs scoring record and had a legit case for Conn Smythe, and just about a goal a game in the cup finals? Yeah cant win with him.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Huberdoo
Marner
Matthews
Thornton
Marleau
Giroux
Hellebyuck
Panarin
Zijanibad
Aho
Duchene
Pavelski
Robertson
Tavares
Rielly
Guentzel
Gaudreau
Benn
Seguin

Uh? Guentzel has a Cup and lead the playoffs in goal scoring during that run.

Unlike a lot of highly paid guys on that list, he actually produces in the playoffs.

 

[seafoam]

Duchene.

 

[Astyanax]

Most of them are 80 and retired. Are you going to list dead guys next?

Well the premise is can't win players. It doesn't say anything about not winning currently.