Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 10

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I don't get the lack of support for Kariya to be honest. I feel like he's way past due at this point.

I feel like Shea Weber is worth comparing to Kariya.

I thought I would vote for Kariya this round, but the new candidates might make it tough.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Summary

Barry is by no means a complete player. He doesn't give you much defense, and his playmaking was probably about average for a top center.

But he does give you a reasonably well-rounded case for this stage of the project: he was a truly elite goal scorer (especially for the center) and the center pivot of some very good lines on very good teams, one of the most durable and consistent players ever, and one of the better playoff performers we'll see in this range.

I just want to say that, while Barry was certainly no Hooley Smith without the puck, his overall game did receive some faint praise over his career.

Wherever he played, Marty Barry was a productive center whose work ethic was lauded by teammates and opponents alike. His stamina and dedication made him one of the most consistent and durable performers of his era. Between 1929 and 1939, he missed only two NHL regular season games.

Barry, big and strong and a hard worker, is as fine a playmaker as he is a defensive player. He has played left wing during the greater part of his career, but is the clever, snappy type of center who feeds his wings exceptionally well. Barry, big and strong and a hard worker, is as fine a playmaker as he is a defensive player.

I believe the above is a newspaper quote from relatively early in Barry's career, whose citation was lost in the server migration.

Barry was a LW for a few years at the beginning of his career, but was converted to center, where he spent most of his prime. His assist totals are ok, but nothing special for this round, so take from that quote whatever you will.

Marty Barry, Larry Aurie, and Herb Lewis give the Red Wings one of the best forward lines in the game. It is not only a high scoring array, but one of the finest defensive combinations.

I believe the above is from another newspaper article whose citation got messed up in the server migration. It should be noted that Aurie and Lewis were more individually praised for their defensive play than Barry.

The Boston Bruin's center, Marty Barry, is one of the most aggressive players in the National Hockey League. He has assisted his mates scores of times this season in penetrating opponents' defense zones and has scored several goals himself.

​

ATD bios:
ATD 2012 Bios Thread (as complete as possible: pic, quotes, stats, sources, etc) (this one contains more quotes)
ATD 2014 - the Bios Thread

 

[The Macho King]

I just want to say that, while Barry was certainly no Hooley Smith without the puck, his overall game did receive some faint praise over his career.




I believe the above is a newspaper quote from relatively early in Barry's career, whose citation was lost in the server migration.

Barry was a LW for a few years at the beginning of his career, but was converted to center, where he spent most of his prime. His assist totals are ok, but nothing special for this round, so take from that quote whatever you will.


I believe the above is from another newspaper article whose citation got messed up in the server migration. It should be noted that Aurie and Lewis were more individually praised for their defensive play than Barry.

​

ATD bios:
ATD 2012 Bios Thread (as complete as possible: pic, quotes, stats, sources, etc) (this one contains more quotes)
ATD 2014 - the Bios Thread

This isn't scientific or anything, but having read a few hundred ATD bios by now, I think it's almost impossible to find players they *don't* praise for their defensive play. I wonder if it's a side effect of the articles largely being written by the ones that follow the beat (for instance, Joe Smith will tell you up and down that Stamkos is a good defender right now and praise his faceoff ability and the fact he kills penalties, but since it's easy to watch games and pull other stats we can say pretty definitively that Joe Smith is full of shit).

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

This isn't scientific or anything, but having read a few hundred ATD bios by now, I think it's almost impossible to find players they *don't* praise for their defensive play. I wonder if it's a side effect of the articles largely being written by the ones that follow the beat (for instance, Joe Smith will tell you up and down that Stamkos is a good defender right now and praise his faceoff ability and the fact he kills penalties, but since it's easy to watch games and pull other stats we can say pretty definitively that Joe Smith is full of shit).

I think that there's enough there about Barry's "hard work" for it to be meaningful.

The rest... you might be right to an extent... though I don't think anyone really praised Busher Jackson or Bill Cowley or Sweeney Schriner's defense. But being better than them without the puck isn't exactly a high bar.

BTW, I actually think that Barry winning the Lady Byng is circumstantial evidence in his favor - it was still early enough in that award's existence for it to still be really prestigious, seeming to go to a "tough/hard working but clean" player.

 

[The Macho King]

I think that there's enough there about Barry's "hard work" for it to be meaningful.

The rest... you might be right to an extent... though I don't think anyone really praised Busher Jackson or Bill Cowley or Sweeney Schriner's defense. But being better than them without the puck isn't exactly a high bar.

BTW, I actually think that Barry winning the Lady Byng is circumstantial evidence in his favor - it was still early enough in that award's existence for it to still be really prestigious, seeming to go to a "tough/hard working but clean" player.

I almost take this as a challenge to go digging for something on them, but yeah I think the ones who are "bad" are fairly well known quantities.

Then again, I generally view forward defense as - in probably 80% of cases - a minor bump one way or the other rather than something to make a determination on. Unless it's something particularly notable about a player - either Draisatl-level bad or Bergeron-level good, I mostly see the differences between forwards on defense to be secondary to their offensive contributions, because it's mainly just a side effect of effort. But as you note - Barry's offense *is* significant, and his defense appears to at least not be a negative.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I'll repeat a question I asked on the V9 thread :

Which Canadiens player in his prime during the dynasty for which Laperrière starred, which is the 65-69 dynasty, has been added to the list?

Jean Beliveau and Henri Richard were slipping (very gracefully, but slipping nonetheless) into post-prime AND were part of another dynasty, and Beliveau would obviously have already been voted if he didn't even play a game for the 65-69 dynasty. None of the other 56-60 dynasty players in the list were still playing for the Canadiens at that time. Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe and Jacques Lemaire weren't yet in their primes and weren't even there for the whole 65-69 dynasty, not to mention they're usually not really associated with that dynasty (with cause, I might add), and Lemaire may even not make the list. Rogatien Vachon, Jean-Claude Tremblay, Yvan Cournoyer and Lorne Worsley aren't on the list (yet), and some of them might miss it entierely; also, all of these players save Cournoyer added non-negligible (Worsley) or sizeable (Vachon) or somewhere in between (Tremblay) value while they weren't with the Canadiens. Tony Esposito doesn't count. Claude Provost, Ralph Backstrom, Robert Rousseau and Dick Duff won't make the list.

There are valid reasons to be a bit cold on Laperrière (Hedman, Weber, Barry and Goodfellow being available at the same time is certainly a very good one) at this point. The above isn't one. Nor will it be smart to later on overlook the best WHA defensemen because he ALSO happened to play for Canadiens.

Here, here.

This wasn't the 50's dynasty where all those great stars were in their absolute primes. Laperriere (along with Tremblay) really stabilized a D corps losing Doug Harvey and Tom Johnson, no small feat to be certain and they were the top dogs in 68 (title) w/Savard making his entry fully into the playoffs in 69.

If you just stick with the record (AS/Norris/TOI feats/etc) and put it in the context of a defensive first player, it's hard not to be impressed.

And it get it. He's a boring player. Very few of us saw him play, but we've all seen Weber and Hedman many times. And we do live in a world of what have you done for me lately haha.

The record speaks for itself IMO at this point.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Here, here.

This wasn't the 50's dynasty where all those great stars were in their absolute primes. Laperriere (along with Tremblay) really stabilized a D corps losing Doug Harvey and Tom Johnson, no small feat to be certain and they were the top dogs in 68 (title) w/Savard making his entry fully into the playoffs in 69.

If you just stick with the record (AS/Norris/TOI feats/etc) and put it in the context of a defensive first player, it's hard not to be impressed.

And it get it. He's a boring player. Very few of us saw him play, but we've all seen Weber and Hedman many times. And we do live in a world of what have you done for me lately haha.

The record speaks for itself IMO at this point.

I don't necessarily think that being a "defensive-first" player hurt Laperriere in the voting. This was pre-expansion when every writer saw every time play 14 times. Plus, Laperriere saw a pretty good amount of PP time.

 

[seventieslord]

This isn't scientific or anything, but having read a few hundred ATD bios by now, I think it's almost impossible to find players they *don't* praise for their defensive play. I wonder if it's a side effect of the articles largely being written by the ones that follow the beat (for instance, Joe Smith will tell you up and down that Stamkos is a good defender right now and praise his faceoff ability and the fact he kills penalties, but since it's easy to watch games and pull other stats we can say pretty definitively that Joe Smith is full of shit).

You're not wrong about that, which is why we have to take a good look at all available evidence and get a sense for the frequency of the praise, the language used, etc.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I almost take this as a challenge to go digging for something on them, but yeah I think the ones who are "bad" are fairly well known quantities.

Then again, I generally view forward defense as - in probably 80% of cases - a minor bump one way or the other rather than something to make a determination on. Unless it's something particularly notable about a player - either Draisatl-level bad or Bergeron-level good, I mostly see the differences between forwards on defense to be secondary to their offensive contributions, because it's mainly just a side effect of effort. But as you note - Barry's offense *is* significant, and his defense appears to at least not be a negative.

Slightly off topic....you find almost nothing on Jackson outside of his scoring prowess.

 

[The Macho King]

Slightly off topic....you find almost nothing on Jackson outside of his scoring prowess.

I looked into Schriner a bit when I drafted him and found the same, but I didn't do a super deep dive.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Ebbie Goodfellow

Overpass did a chronological look at his career in the HOH Top Defensemen project:

Ebbie Goodfellow and positions: I posted this in the preliminary discussion thread.

Goodfellow played part of the 1933-34 season at centre and part at defense, before returning to centre for the playoffs. He started the 1934-35 season at defense, but moved back to centre around the new year. Goodfellow finally moved to defense for good in the 1935-36 season.

Mar 31, 1934 Border Cities Star:

Ebbie Goodfellow, blonde-haired Ottawa boy who had led an uncertain career most of the Winter...bouncing from centre to defense, and defense to centre...was the hero of the piece.

Ebenezer Goodfellow, who a few weeks ago wasn't sure whether he was a defenseman, or a centre, or even how long his job was going to last.

Goodfellow was playing centre in this game, centring Sorrell and Wiseman on the second line, as he did for the rest of that years playoffs. He also played on the power play with Weiland, Lewis, Aurie, and Sorrell.

Leader-Post, Dec 29, 1934:

Ebbie Goodfellow will return to his old position at centre with Eddie Wiseman and Johnny Sorrell...

Goodfellow's career looks like this.

The Forward Years (1929/30 through 1932/33)

Goodfellow was a top scorer on a bad, low-scoring team.

1929-30 - Goodfellow was a close second to Carson Cooper in team scoring, on a low-scoring Detroit team. 17th in league scoring.

1930-31 - Goodfellow led the league in scoring for much of the season, finished second in points, and was fourth in Hart voting behind Morenz, Shore, and Clancy. He registered a point on 48 of Detroit's 102 goals.

1931-32 - Goodfellow led the offensively inept Detroit team with 30 points, but finished only 19th in league scoring.

1932-33 - Goodfellow slipped to 20 points, 6th on Detroit. It appears that Detroit had a more balanced attack this season, and Goodfellow played on the second line for much of the season.

The Transition Years (1933/34 and 1934/35)

1933-34 - Goodfellow was off the first line for good, with the arrival of Cooney Weiland. He spent most of the season playing defence. He still scored 26 points, 5th on Detroit, as he was part of Detroit's strong power play unit of Lewis-Weiland-Aurie-Goodfellow-Sorrell. He also received a single vote for the all-star team at defence. One of the quotes above suggests that Goodfellow's job was in danger, so maybe he wasn't playing well earlier this year. In the playoffs, he moved back to second line centre.

In order to provide his forwards with every ounce of scoring punch, Manager Adams has moved Ebbie Goodfellow from his defence post to centre.

Goodfellow has played defence for the greatest part of the season...

Goodfellow had a strong playoff as Detroit lost in the Stanley Cup finals. Four of those came in the first two games against Toronto, which Detroit won, and Vern Degeer of the Border Cities Star wrote that Goodfellow played two of the greatest games of his career.

1934-35 - Goodfellow started the season at defence. He was on fire, leading all players in the American division in scoring as of Dec 17 with seven goals and 14 points. But around the new year, to break up the team's slump, he was moved back to the second line between Wiseman and Sorrell, where he had played in the playoffs the previous year. The move didn't help, as Detroit missed the playoffs. Goodfellow's point totals remained high despite spending part of the year as a rearguard, finishing fifth in scoring on Detroit once again. His presence on the power play probably drove that, with the five power play players finishing 1 through 5 in scoring on Detroit (Aurie-Lewis-Weiland-Sorrell-Goodfellow.) Goodfellow's position switching in this season may have cost him an all-star spot.

The Defence Years (1935/36 through 1940/41)

1935/36 - Goodfellow moved back to defence for good before the season. He was paired with Ralph "Scotty" Bowman, and Doug Young and Bucko MacDonald formed the starting pairing. Syd Howe replaced Goodfellow on the second line, and Marty Barry replaced Weiland on the first line. As a full-time blueliner, Goodfellow "only" scored 23 points, which still led all defencemen in the league. He was named to the second all-star team after the season. In the playoffs, Detroit won the Stanley Cup.

1936/37 - Detroit returned another strong team this season. Goodfellow and Bowman were the starting pairing this year. Goodfellow finished in a tie with Lionel Conacher for defenceman scoring, behind Babe Siebert. He was named a first-team all-star after the season. In the playoffs, Detroit won their second straight Stanley Cup, and Goodfellow contributed four points in Detroit's first eight playoff games. He missed Game 4 of the final due to injury and played only briefly in the deciding Game 5, but star centre Marty Barry put the team on his back and scored three of Detroit's four goals in those two games.

1937/38 - Detroit crashed hard, missing the playoffs and finishing last in the division, in one of the big stories of the NHL season. Their core players were getting a little long in the tooth, with all of Lewis, Barry, Aurie, Sorrell, and Hec Kilrea aged 30 or older. Goodfellow himself was 30 years old, and he broke his wrist early in the season and missed 18 games in total. It was a season to forget.

Big Ebbie Goodfellow, the blond Ottawan with the winning smile, shattering body check, and world of speed, will be on the spot in Detroit tonight...

Opinion has been growing lately that Goodfellow's absence for some weeks with an arm injury is the answer to the dismal showing of last season's world champions...

During Goodfellow's absence in November and December, Detroit went 2-10-1. In January, he missed another 5 games and the team was 2-2-1. Overall, Detroit was 8-13-9 (.417) with Goodfellow in the lineup, and 4-12-2 (0.278) while missing Goodfellow. He may not have been in top form even while playing, as he failed to score a goal all season and only had 7 assists.

1938/39 - Goodfellow was named team captain before the season. He played in all 48 games and scored 16 points. Detroit improved, but still failed to make the playoffs. They had failed to bring in enough young talent to replace their aging stars, and struggled to score. Goodfellow's 16 points were good for a tie for fifth among blueliners (Clapper, Heller, Pratt, Shore.) In the all-star voting, he was a non-factor, receiving only 3 votes total, the same as his teammate Bowman.

1939/40 - After two off-years, Goodfellow had a huge comeback season. Detroit continued the rebuilding process, as Jack Adams let Barry, Lewis and Doug Young go and brought in dozens of young players for tryouts, leaving Goodfellow and Bowman as the only holdovers from their championship seasons. The moves led to little on-ice success, as the Wings finished 16-26-6, good for fifth out of seven NHL teams. But Goodfellow scored 28 points, second on a weak Detroit attack. He tied for the lead in points among all defencemen. He was second in all-star voting among defencemen, with 16 first team votes and 9 second team votes to Dit Clapper's 21 and 4. And he won the Hart Trophy in a close vote over Syl Apps and Clapper.

Windsor Daily Star:

The Ottawa-born Goodfellow, a 10-year man in the N.H.L., long has been recognized as one of the best defense-men in the league and was chosen this year with Clapper on the first Canadian Press All-Stars team.

Conceded by Manager Jack Adams to have been the rallying force of the Detroit club during the 1939-40 season, Goodfellow was second highest point-scorer for the Red Wings during the season.

1940/41 - Goodfellow continued his strong play at the age of 33. Not only a captain and star player, he became a playing coach for this season also. Adams was still the bench coach, and Goodfellow was an on-ice coach. Detroit's rebuild paid dividends this season, as they finally climbed back over 0.500 and made the Stanley Cup final. Their 102 goals against was a big improvement, and they tied for 2nd in the league in GA. Syd Howe and Goodfellow were the stars once again, and young stars Sid Abel and Jack Stewart were developing. On the ice, Goodfellow was once again among the leading scorers from the blueline, with 22 points. He received substantial support in the all-star voting, with 19 voting points, but finished fifth and fell short of making the first or second team.

Goodfellow was injured in Detroit's first round victory over the defending champion Rangers. His injured elbow and knee kept him out of the rest of the playoffs. Detroit beat Chicago without him, but probably missed him as they were swept by Boston in the final.

The Coaching Years - 1941/42 and 1942/43

1941/42 - Goodfellow was recovering from a knee operation, and only played in 9 games. He continued as a coach of the Red Wings. The team's regular season record suffered, as they dropped below 0.500. They went on a run in the 1942 playoffs, winning the first two rounds and going up on Toronto 3-0 in the final, but lost four straight games to Toronto. Goodfellow's playoff contribution was limited to his coaching duties.

1942/43 - Goodfellow's knee again allowed him into only 11 regular season games, and no playoff games. But by this time Detroit didn't need him on the ice anymore. Under Goodfellow's tutelage, Jack Stewart had developed into the best defenceman in the league. Led by a strong mix of veterans and young players, and coached by Adams and Goodfellow, the Wings won the regular season title and the Stanley Cup.

Random note: Goodfellow was a big man, one of the fastest skaters in hockey, and he had a hard shot. He was also tough.

"Goodfellow, long known as the "best one-punch fighter in hockey's history,"

Here are two good ATD bios that portray him as a versatile player with no real weakness:
ATD 2012 Bios Thread (as complete as possible: pic, quotes, stats, sources, etc)
ATD 2015 Bio Thread

One particular article seems to sum up the highlights of his skillset (as backed up by others): "shattering body check and world of speed." His shot power was also highly praised, and he was a big part of Detroit's strong power play.

 

[The Macho King]

Ebbie Goodfellow

Overpass did a chronological look at his career in the HOH Top Defensemen project:



Here are two good ATD bios that portray him as a versatile player with no real weakness:
ATD 2012 Bios Thread (as complete as possible: pic, quotes, stats, sources, etc)
ATD 2015 Bio Thread

One particular article seems to sum up the highlights of his skillset (as backed up by others): "shattering body check and world of speed." His shot power was also highly praised, and he was a big part of Detroit's strong power play.

Am I mistaken or isn't he one of the supposed originators of the slap shot?

 

[Professor What]

Am I mistaken or isn't he one of the supposed originators of the slap shot?

I thought that was Boom Boom Geoffrion.

 

[tarheelhockey]

What does it matter on what team a player comes from if they are good enough to be voted in? Once again, this is for the top 200 players of all time and not the "we can only have 10 Habs players only and fill the rest in" of all time. I don't understand that reasoning.

I actually do understand the reasoning, but I think it’s misplaced in this case.

TBH I’d have sooner held off on Savard than Laperriere. That’s one where we let subjective reputation get a lot of mileage.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I don't necessarily think that being a "defensive-first" player hurt Laperriere in the voting. This was pre-expansion when every writer saw every time play 14 times. Plus, Laperriere saw a pretty good amount of PP time.

I agree, but stylistically he wasn't going to pop. I think him handling PP time showed his versatility as well. It'd be quite easy to classify him as a defensive only player, unlike any of the other players we're comparing him to.

As I said before, I don't think anyone has a superior record (just lining them all up side by side) across the board and it's not like anyone can point to Orr, Park, Pilote, Horton, Tremblay, so on and so forth and accuse Lap of taking advantage of a bleak era. I find the post Lidstrom era to be rather weak compared to most decades/era previously. Part of that is some of these guys are still active, but right now, from the past 10-12 years (primes occurring in this span), how many blue liners are top 20 all time? Did Keith or Chara sneak into that group? Neither of them are adding anything to the resume it would seem at this point. I wouldn't put either of them over Piolote or Horton for starters.

When Lap came into the league Pilote was 32, which was his 2nd of 3 straight Norris winning seasons. Pilote was still an AS caliber player the year after Lap beat him out for the Norris. So it's not like he was clinging to the last bit of excellence he had.

Tim Horton was an AS caliber defender up until 68-69 (5 years after Lap's rookie season). Another top 20 defender all time that Lap bested multiple times in Norris finishes head to head before 68-69.

So again, it's not Orr/Park prime, but it certainly was near prime Pilote and prime Horton (he peaked way later than most players) competing for votes those first 4-5 seasons.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

VsX summary

Player	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th	8th	9th	10th	7 YEAR	10 YEAR
Marty Barry	100	97.8	93.2	90.7	85.1	84.1	76	72.1	65.9	53.2	89.6	81.8
John Bucyk	128.9	89.4	82.4	82.1	81.5	80.2	76.1	73.2	73.1	72.3	88.7	83.9
Dale Hawerchuk	96.3	92.6	92.4	84.5	84.3	77.4	74.5	73.4	71.7	70.1	86	81.7
Paul Kariya	94.4	91.5	90.8	90	80.2	77.9	69.8	66.7	63.3	61.3	84.9	78.6
Marian Hossa	94.3	87.7	86.8	79.4	78.1	76.9	73.3	70.9	69	64.5	82.4	78.1
Hooley Smith	95	93.2	88	86	65.5	60.5	57.4	54.3	48.4	46.9	78	69.5
Ebbie Goodfellow	111.6	76.6	65.1	60.5	60	57.5	55.6	54.8	50	45.5	69.6	63.7
Victor Hedman	80.9	63.2	61.8	56.7	52.8	46.6	44.2	35.1	26.3	23.7	66.8	49.1
Shea Weber	64.4	57.3	52.3	50.5	49.1	48.5	48.2	47.2	39.4	36	52.9	49.3
Jacques Laperriere	43	39.7	38.5	32.5	29.8	29	28.6	25.7	22.1	17.8	34.4	30.7

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

A few points:

• As TDMM showed last round, it's pretty clear that Orr's Bruins broke the scale in 1971 (and a few other seasons), which inflates Bucyk's score. His estimate, which looked reasonable to me, suggested that more realistic results for Bucyk are around 79.3 and 76.7 - link
• Hedman and Weber at still active. Hedman is on pace for around 57 if the season ended today. That would increase his seven- and ten-year results to 71.2 and 52.4. It's open to interpretation how much weight should be given to a season already in progress.
• I didn't bother posting Kasatanov's seven years in the NHL when he was past his prime (his seven- and ten-year results are 20.2 and 14.2, respectively). He makes Rod Langway look like Paul Coffey.
• Barry has the 3rd highest seven-year result among any remaining players.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Hart trophy results - 5% threshold

Player	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th+	Total
Ebbie Goodfellow	1		1	1				3
Hooley Smith		1	1	1				3
Paul Kariya		1					2	3
Dale Hawerchuk		1						1
Marty Barry					1			1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Players who weren't eligible for the Hart - Kasatonov (effectively), Petrov, Stuart, Suchy

Players who were eligible, but didn't receive a non-trivial number of votes - Bucyk, Hedman, Hossa, Laperriere, Weber

Norris trophy results - 5% threshold

Player	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th+	Total
Jacques Laperriere	1	1		2	2	1		7
Shea Weber		2	1	2		1	1	7
Victor Hedman	1		3					4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Hockey Outsider]

A case for Marty Barry.

Goal scoring

While slightly below the highest level of 1930s goal scorers (e.g. Charlie Conacher), Barry was certainly one of the elite of his generation. At his peak he was a top-3 goal scorer and he was solidly top-10 throughout his prime, bearing in mind that many of the guys ahead of him were wingers. Among centers, he places behind only Nels Stewart as a goal scorer during his prime (1930-37). And Stewart bounced around the lineup quite a bit, so it's not entirely certain that Barry wasn't the leading goal-scorer from the actual center position during this period. In the mid-30s, Barry took Boston's 1C position directly over Stewart, bearing in mind they were only 3 years separated in age.

It's one of those "Stastny was the 2nd highest scorer of the 80s" type stats, but one of the feathers in his cap is that he was 1st in points, 1st in assists, and 2nd in goals for the 10-year span from 1930-31 to 1939-40. Yes, those rankings look slightly worse if you shift the timeframe by a year or two -- but only slightly worse (more like 2nd than 1st). He was legitimately a top scorer leaguewide for an entire decade, with only Nels Stewart being in his range as a long-term compiler.

Barry is one of the rare cases where a high-scoring C scores more goals than assists. It's not that he was a bad playmaker (he's tied for 5th in assists during his prime) but he was deadly as a shooter.

High Peak, Strong Prime

His peak season saw him win the 1AS, the retro-Smythe, the Byng, and a 5th place Hart finish. His 5th, 6th, 7th best seasons still had him as a very good top-line centerman.

Notwithstanding his final season before retirement, Barry's only really weak showing came in 1938, when he fell to 27th in scoring (8-team league). Going into the following season, Jack Adams talked about shifting Barry to defense and finally settled on using him as a "center captain", meaning he would play on the 1st line with flexibility to double-shift on whatever line needed a playmaker at the moment. Barry responded with a bounce-back season. If he had played 60 years later, it's conceivable that he might have had a Modano-like second prime as a more rounded defensive presence -- that's the direction he was headed when he called it quits at age 34, which was not out of place for that era.

Consistency

Barry's scoring stayed remarkably consistent under a wide variety of conditions.

• In the early 1930s, playing on the second line behind a peak Cooney Weiland, he was good for a solid 20 goals.
• In the mid-30s he was the pivot of the Bruins' top line and good for 20-25 goals and 35-40 points regardless of whether the team was a contender or an also-ran.
• Traded to Detroit, he immediately led a 1st place team in goal scoring. The following season, he set a new career high in assists as his linemate Larry Aurie led the league in goal scoring. Even when over the hill, he led the Wings in scoring at age 33 (over a prime-aged Syd Howe).

Durability

A big part of Barry's success as a compiler was his iron-man status. At one point he missed only 2 games out of 470, over a span of 10 years. His constant availability in the lineup was a stabilizing factor in what at times were chaotic situations in Boston and Detroit.

Leadership

Barry was one of the "forgotten" captains in Boston that were identified by @Puckstruck. Inexplicably, the Bruins do not recognize this officially. He was also captain in Detroit. Barry was known as a quiet, lead-by-example type. This goes back to his consistency and durability. When a guy is out there in the trenches every night, he doesn't necessarily need to shout in order for others to follow him.

Playoffs

His ATD bio notes that Barry scored as much in the playoffs as the regular season, making him an exception to the rule during his era.

Unlike some of the other 1930s Bruins, Barry was able to break through the "playoff underachiever" label by immediately winning two consecutive Stanley Cups after joining the Wings.

In 1937, Barry led the playoffs in all three scoring categories, winning the retro-Smythe per both the HHOF and THN projects. Given that he scored over 50% more than the next-nearest player (11 - 7), this one has to be up there among the top playoff runs of the era.

Barry also led the 1930 Bruins (as a rookie) and 1933 Bruins in playoff scoring. The black mark on his record is being shut out over 4 games in 1935; the Bruins as a whole scored only 2 goals in that series. Notably, Barry did not receive credit for a secondary assist on one of those goals, the 2OT winner in Game 1. The rest of the series he was shadowed closely by Frank Finnigan and the Bruins as a whole couldn't get anything going.


Summary

Barry is by no means a complete player. He doesn't give you much defense, and his playmaking was probably about average for a top center.

But he does give you a reasonably well-rounded case for this stage of the project: he was a truly elite goal scorer (especially for the center) and the center pivot of some very good lines on very good teams, one of the most durable and consistent players ever, and one of the better playoff performers we'll see in this range.

This is a good case for Barry. The one thing that doesn't look great is he got so little consideration for the Hart trophy. Yes, voting standards were different back then, but it gives me some pause when he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 4th in scoring and only got a single top-five Hart trophy finish.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Hart trophy results - 5% threshold

Player	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th+	Total
Ebbie Goodfellow	1		1	1				3
Hooley Smith		1	1	1				3
Paul Kariya		1					2	3
Dale Hawerchuk		1						1
Marty Barry					1			1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Players who weren't eligible for the Hart - Kasatonov (effectively), Petrov, Stuart, Suchy

Players who were eligible, but didn't receive a non-trivial number of votes - Bucyk, Hedman, Hossa, Laperriere, Weber

Thanks for posting.

Just a minor footnote - nobody has full records for the Hart Trophy for the 1930s. In each year from 1933-34 to 1940-41, it looks like only the top 5 in voting each year was ever released.

Going back a little further - In 1931-32, only top 4. In 1932-33, only top 3. In the 1920s through 1930-31, more complete records were released (top 8 in 1930-31).
Award & All-Star Voting (1912-present)

This is a good case for Barry. The one thing that doesn't look great is he got so little consideration for the Hart trophy. Yes, voting standards were different back then, but it gives me some pause when he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 4th in scoring and only got a single top-five Hart trophy finish.

See above. It's very possible he had some 6th, 7th, or 8th place finishes; we just don't know. In an era when defensemen seemed to get about 50% of the Hart votes, that isn't all that bad.

It does tend to make him look fairly offense-only though.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'll expand on what I said about Hart voting in the mid-late 1930s. We only have top 5 in Hart voting each year during Barry's prime in the mid-late 1930s. If on an average year, forwards only occupied 2 of those 5 spots, that really doesn't leave much room.

His best seasons, he was 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th in scoring.

1933-34 (Barry 4th in NHL scoring, but pretty far behind #1 Charlie Conacher)
1. Aurel Joliat, Mtl LW 62
2. Lionel Conacher, Chi D 56
3. King Clancy, Tor D 51
4. Earl Seibert, NYR D 32
5. Roy Worters, NYA G 27

Talk about the voters emphasizing defensive play in Hart voting! Joliat was the only forward in the top 5 in Hart voting, and he finished 9th in NHL scoring

1935-36 Hart voting (Barry tied for 2nd/3rd in NHL scoring with Paul Thompson):
1. Eddie Shore, Bos D 55
2. Hooley Smith, Mtl M C 39
3. Dave Schriner, NYA LW 38
4. Charlie Conacher, Tor RW 30
5. Red Dutton, NYA D 28

Schriner won the Art Ross, and the other two forwards to finish ahead of Barry were tied for 4th/5th in NHL scoring only 2 points back. Conacher was also tied for the goals lead and Smith was a great defensive player.

1936-37 Hart voting (Barry 3rd in NHL scoring)
1. Babe Siebert, Mtl D 63
2. Lionel Conacher, Mtl M D 43
3. Ebbie Goodfellow, Det D 42
4. Tiny Thompson, Bos G 31
5. Marty Barry, Det C 26

Yes, Barry with 5th in Hart voting, but he actually led all forwards in Hart voting in 1936-37.

The scoring race was very close that year (Schriner 46, Apps 45, Barry 44 points)

1938-39 (Barry 4th in NHL scoring)
1. Toe Blake, Mtl LW 64
2. Syl Apps, Tor C 45
3. Johnny Gottselig, Chi LW 30
4. Earl Robertson, NYA G
5. Eddie Shore, Bos D 27

Toe Blake was the Art Ross winner. Apps scored only 1 point less than Barry. Gottselig (a decent two-way player) finished 2 points back of Barry.

_________________

Summary:

Barry played in an era where defensive play (and defensemen!) were much more rewarded by the voters, making it relatively difficult for an offensively-oriented forward to break into the top 5 in Hart voting (all we have) unless he had a truly exceptional season.

Barry's is better defined by high-end regular season consistency (4 top 4 finishes in scoring is really good at this point in the project), without having that one defining regular season.

Even when Barry was 2nd in NHL scoring in 1935-36, he was still tied for 2nd, with multiple other players only a couple points back. He actually led all forwards in Hart voting in 1936-37, even if it shows up as just "5th" among all players. Though I'd venture a guess that Schriner and Apps, who barely beat him out in points, probably had some Hart votes of their own, we just don't know anything beyond 5th in Hart voting.

 

[DN28]

I'm glad Jan Suchý finally made it. Most likely the best non-NHL Euro left. Currently, I only have Hod Stuart above him.

Things in favor of Suchý:

- First thing that comes to mind is... Firsov. The 60 or 70 spots of gap between Firsov and Suchý on the list is crazy and has no bearing in reality of how well they played and how they were viewed by contemporaries. A consensus Firsov>Suchý seems to be set on these parts, which is fine... I also have Firsov ahead but only thanks to Firsov's reliability/discipline. If only on-ice impact were to be considered I'd personally picked Suchý (just like probably most people during 1968-1971 timeframe).

- Second thing. Suchý was the embodiment of "big game player". His peak or prime easily outclassed whatever 4 best years of Vasiliev's career were (or Kasatonov's... or Petrov's). Again, it's OK to rank Vasiliev ahead of Suchý due to length of prime issue... But something needs to be said about Suchý's ability to always up his game in crucial moments regardless of the level he played.

- Third thing. If you put stock on things like "star power", "fame", "artistry", you'll also have to rank Suchý very highly this vote.

Five or six months ago, I made a long, detailed post focusing on Jan Suchý's prime and European defensemen in general during 1960s, early 1970s. I'm going to re-post it here today... I'm warning you ahead - yes, it's a LONG post but it should be of interest to anyone who is at least slightly interested in European hockey of that time period. If you're totally uninterested, or just don't have enough time, then at least do me a solid and skim through quotes from 1968-1971 so that you get a picture of Suchý's impact.

 

[DN28]

Jan Suchý and other European defensemen from mid-60s to early 70s

I finally forced myself into writing a longer profile mainly about Jan Suchý’s prime. Suchý is probably the last well-known CSSR player of whom I felt the need to post my archive findings. This post also includes some secondary information about the state of Czech and other Euro d-men in the roughly 1965-1971 period. It doesn’t include anything about Suchý’s post-car accident career, since I’ve already covered that topic elsewhere.

1964-1965
Suchý’s first international season. I find nothing particular about him. František Tikal (WHC ‘65 All-Star and 1965 Directoriate’s Best Defenseman) was still considered by far the best Czechoslovak defenseman at this point. Suchý didn’t get a vote in tournament’s all-star voting. Coach Vladimír Kostka even wrote in winter 64-65 after the CSSR trip to Canada that Tikal could easily play in the NHL. It’s truly a shame that Tikal’s legacy have been tarnished by no one other than his 1965’ D partner in the CSSR lineup – Jan Suchý. Anyway, moving on…

1965-1966
I would cautiously refer of Suchý as the best Czechoslovak defenseman at this point. Not only that his league scoring jumped but he showed a great WHC performance. In the league, Suchý’s 32 points was good enough for the 13th place in the overall scoring (and of course the most among d-men). Dukla Jihlava (= Suchý’s team) improved in the standings and lost the title to ZKL Brno only through worse goal-differential.

But also Kopaná-Hokej magazine declared Jan Suchý, Stanislav Prýl and Jiří Holík as the three best CSSR players at the 1966 WHC, while Stadion magazine considered Jiří Holík as the best Czechoslovakian at the Ljublana 1966’ Championship… Suchý was the only CSSR d-man who did not register a single goal or assist so whatever the source of praise for his perfomance was, it surely hadn’t come from his offensive rushes.

1966-1967
Suchý probably became the best Czechoslovak player during this season. Dukla Jihlava won their first title and launched a dynasty lasting until 1974. Suchý was again the highest scoring d-men (he’d be one always from 1966 to 1970) while Dukla allowed the least amount of goals by a good margin.

I have two sources which together paints the picture. First, František Žák, former league player who observed the WHC ’67 in person, named Jozef Golonka and Jan Suchý as the only couple of players who did not disappoint.

Second, I have found Arkady Chernyshev’s list of best players at the Vienna 1967’ Championship in the Kopaná-Hokej interview. The list is following:

View attachment 375513

KH: “Which WHC players were the best to you?”

AC: “In goal – Martin. This Canadian is without a doubt the best goaltender over the last years. I would nominate our Konovalenko as the second goalie, and as a third – the American Wetzel.

Davydov was the best amongst defensemen. He played greatly in all the games and was almost flawless. That is very important in such esteemed tournament. Ragulin deserves a high praise too. From other teams’ defensemen, I would pick the Canadian Brewer and the CSSR player Suchý.

Firsov showed an outstanding game in the offense. He was certainly the best. I would name Starshinov as the second best. What a fantastic warrior who can play on the ice exactly what interests of the collective dictate. I would put the Swede Nils Nilsson on the third place, and on the fourth – Jaroslav Holík from the CSSR.”

So that’s two individuals that separately exalt Jan Suchý after otherwise horrible team performance by the Czechoslovaks (4th place at the WHC).

Furthermore, we do have already here a smaller, less-known award for the best Czechoslovak hockey players called Anketa internacionálů (can be loosely translated as The Poll of the Former National Team Players). I haven’t still found enough time to look more into this, but from what I remember, I believe the award results came from approximately 10 voters and the award was granted according to yearly – not seasonal (!) – performance. Jan Suchý is listed to win this award in 1967, which presumably means that circa 10 former players thought of him to be the CSSR player for the 2nd half of 66-67 and for the 1st half of 67-68 season.

…All this is to say that from the evidence at hand, I think we can cautiously give Jan Suchý a retro Golden Stick for the 1967 season.

A sidenote: under the information available, Suchý was likely contacted by an NHL team (Detroit Red Wings) for the first time during the summer of 1967.

1967-1968
Here’s where the real ride begins. Not only that Suchý is now playing his own league but he enters a discussion for the best player in Europe. His peak play happened in 1968-1971 and at the OG ’68, Suchý won the d-men all-star voting.

Czechoslovakia won silver but managed to upset the USSR 5:4 in quite an exciting spectacle. The game was definitely won in large part through clever coaching of Pitner&Kostka but as far as the individual players’ contributions go, Jan Suchý with his two-way game was arguably the best player on ice (hinted by the head of the CSSR hockey association Zdeněk Andršt in post-game interview).

From now on, we can see a consistent pattern with Suchý’s career – the ability to always play his best in deciding games. Thriving in the clutch Suchý also demonstrated in the League 1-2 months later. Although the 1960’s CSSR League did not offer any playoffs, a luck would have it that the previous champions (Dukla Jihlava and ZKL Brno) faced each other in the last round as the final game of the season. Jihlava was ahead 2 points but Brno would win the league with any win… The game ended with a 3:3 tie. How did the press evaluate the game?

“Big battles give birth to heroes. The Jihlavian Suchý becomes one in deciding league match between ZKL and Dukla. He stopped countless actions, blocked 17 shots with his own body, by himself several times endangered and once scored on Nadrchal. Jan Suchý is clearly the best hockey player of the season.”

To prove that Suchý wasn’t just a skater who got hot in high-pressure games but disappeared in low-key games, I will show you this list:

View attachment 375514

The list shows the final account of the best Czechoslovak players based on league games only. Reporters of Kopaná-Hokej magazine named the top goalie, d-man and forward after every game from the 67-68 season. Number behind the name reveals how many times a player was considered to be the best at his position in a particular game. 1968’ results transcripted from the picture above:

“WRITERS EVALUATED:
Lacký – Suchý – Nedomanský

In the contest of journalists for the best players of the game, here is the final ranking:

Goaltenders: Lacký (23 ‘firsts’), Termer (19), Holeček (17), Kočí (16), Nadrchal (13), Dzurilla (12), Hovora, Wohl, Mikoláš and Valášek (11) etc.

Defensemen: Suchý (31), Pospíšil (25), Gregor (11), Ondřasina, Machač, Šíma and M. Beránek (10), Tajcnár (8), Masopust and Berek (7), etc.

Forwards: Nedomanský (13), Havel (11), Bavor and Černý (10), Ševčík, Jar. Holík and Hrbatý (8), Golonka (7), Jiří Holík and Hlinka (6) etc.”

What is absurd is that Suchý was declared the top d-man 31 times while playing 36 league games. It was 86% guaranteed that Suchý was going to be the best defender whenever a hockey game started and his lead over the rest is massive. I would also point out impressive result by Pospíšil suggesting he may have been a clear 2nd best Czech D already at this point in time, despite his otherwise a bit disappointing Olympics.

Jan Suchý would have been a landslide winner of a Golden Stick trophy for the best Czechoslovak hockey player if the voting was conducted already in spring of 1968.

A sidenote: I was surprised to find out that 34 y/o František Tikal, playing basically his last season, was still viewed as a sure thing for the National team lineup! Only thing which prevented his nomination was an injury/illness.

1968-1969
Now this was one of the best seasons from any European player ever. Defenseman Suchý famously ran through the finish line as the League’s leading scorer – 1 year before Bobby Orr achieved such feat in NHL. Suchý scored 56 points (30+26) in 34 games according to official game records. He created unofficial record of all-time high number of points scored in a single league game – Dukla won 14:3 over České Budějovice on 8. 2. 1969, and Suchý contributed with 9 points (5+4).

Statistically, the 1969’ edition of Dukla Jihlava is likely the most dominant Czech or Slovak team in history. 29 wins, 6 losses, 1 tie, 59 points out of 36 games and a goal-differential of 206:83 – no other team has fared better before or since. Four Dukla players occupied the top-10 scoring rank, three Dukla players appeared on the top-5 scoring list. Just to give you an idea of Suchý’s fame, here are the two headlines from the Československý sport from this time:

“Half of the Champion is Suchý”

“Forwards, learn from Suchý!”

Now to turn the focus on international stage, what else have I found? For the 69’ season specifically, you can find some praise about Suchý’s physical game. Coach Vladimír Kostka highlighted rising quality of CSSR defense’s physical game in winter 68-69 after several clashes with Canadian squads. Czech d-men were at this point considered better than Canadian ones because, while perhaps less stronger, they avoid penalties. In fairness, Kostka noted the physicality of all Czech d-men, not of Suchy concretely, but a sentence later he wrote that Suchý had been statistically the best d-man of that series…

Anyway, Suchý won WHC ‘69 all-star voting with 144 votes out of 150 ballots. He also received ‘69 Directoriate’s Best Defenseman award. CSSR finished the championship only third after worse goal-differential than Sweden and Soviet Union (all three teams had equal amount of points). Czechoslovaks might have come ahead if it wasn’t for Suchý’s injury causing him to miss the last game vs. Sweden. Still, Suchý was probably again the best player on ice in crucial 1st game against the Soviets which was won 2:0 (Suchý scored the first goal, assisted to second goal).

By the end of the season, Suchý won the inaugural Golden Stick award for the best CSSR player. It’s fortunate that for this season we also have a one-off poll for the best player in Europe where Suchý obtained by far the most votes too.

1969-1970
A season where you start to notice some criticism of Suchý. It appears that he sometimes enjoyed attacking and carrying the puck up ice way too much. In any case, reading the late 60s/early 70s contemporary press almost makes you think that there were only two major topics: rule change allowing forchecking in all 3 zones and… everything about Suchý.

There is no sense in spending too much time on the League here, since there was nothing overly new under the sun. Dukla with Suchý as the leading player landed another victory. I’d only point out that this season saw the emergence of František Pospíšil as the Europe’s next “modern” defenseman. Pospíšil did not play as a false wing like Suchý or Lennart Svedberg from the Swedish NT, but he managed to put up similar scoring numbers like Suchý domestically (not internationally though). While Suchý blazed with speed and possessed enormous creativity in all three zones, Pospíšil was a genius passer who excelled in transition and especially in counter-attacking type of play. Suchý’s portion of points came more from goals while Pospíšil’s came largely from assists. Both were obviously great in defensive zone but their style differed. I think Suchý relied more on his speed and when he lost it, he just couldn’t find his former glory. Pospíšil distinguished himself through elite positioning. Coupled with elite conditioning and later a good strength made him to last longer than Suchý and add some impressive 30+ y/o seasons in the 2nd half of the 70s. I have also found out both had a rather weak shot. Suchý especially couldn’t do anything with his slapshot from longer distance, but it caught me as a surprise that Pospíšil’s slapshot was below-average as well. It couldn’t have been matched with shots of CSSR d-men such as Horešovský or Machač – unsurprisingly precisely these two were Suchý’ and Pospíšil’s D partners in the National team. Suchý was RD and Pospíšil LD, which then begged the question why not to create a superelite first D pair? The cooperation was tried but miserably failed – both equally liked to control the flow of the game and to have the puck on their stick a lot.

Jiří Hertl (one of the leading coaches in Czechoslovakia, Hertl’s specialties were goaltending seminars, Junior National team and oversight of league statistics) in his early 1970' review of candidates for the Golden Stick award in the Gól magazine:

“I have four big candidates – Nedomanský, Dzurilla, Černý and Suchý. (…) Jenda Suchý is slowly starting to annoy some spectators, which have been irritated by [Suchý’s] risky game in the offensive zone. But I value him highly. Perhaps I have good nerves or I trust more that it is all well thought-out teamwork with wingers. He has scored 19 goals already and just as much assists and to naysayers, who blame him for some goal allowed through a risky play, I’d like to remind that he’s recorded 37 appearances on ice when goal was allowed, while 62 appearances on ice when goal was scored, and this should only testify in his favor.”

Vladimír Kostka (National team coach) in his early 1970' review of candidates for the Golden Stick award in the Gól magazine:

“František Pospíšil is our best defending defenseman. He reaches a world class level in defensive positioning. Plays hard, balanced and calmly. Does not lose his playing composure even in the toughest situations.”

“Jan Suchý has an individualistic conception of an offensive defenseman. Offensive activity has propped him up on the first place in our scoring charts. He has enormous playing imagination and a sense for immediate resolving of situations even outside of defensive zone.”

Now I’d like to move on to the WHC 1970. Suchý won All-Star D voting again convincingly by 78 votes from 87 ballots. Though he was not granted Directoriate’s best D award – much to a surprise of not only the recipient (Svedberg) but also to a surprise of Suchý himself. From daily coverage of Československý sport you get a feeling as if Suchý was the main star of the tournament. Jan Suchý became a frequent conversational topic in post-game interviews or press conferences.

Roland Stolz (former Swedish player and a star defenseman of the early 1960s hockey) in an interview with Pavel Novotný during the Stockholm 1970’ Championship published by Československý sport:

PN: “Which defenseman do you consider the best here in Stockholm?”

RS: “There is a very simple answer to this question. Yours Suchý. I don’t consider him just a best defenseman, but also the tournament’s best player overall. Svedberg too is a good defenseman but he can’t perform at peak level in every game. Suchý can.”

Anatoli Tarasov when asked by a Československý sport’s writer about the earlier CSSR-Sweden game:

“…I cannot allow myself not to say a word on Jan Suchý. This player to me is realization of the ideal hockey player. How he can react to situations, how he changes the spot as needed, how smartly he can attack.. That’s just amazing.”

Now to cool off the temperature a bit, here’s what Mike Daski (Detroit Red Wings chiefscout for Europe) said in an interview with Pavel Novotný during the Championship published by Československý sport:

PN: “Which players have impressed you the most this year in Stockholm? Would any one of them have a chance to play in the NHL?”

MD: “Last year, we invited to our camp Svedberg from the Swedish squad, and the Finn Ketola. I have my sight on other players from Sweden, Lundström and young Hedberg, which we would like to try out. Svedberg proved himself in our camp, I hope that he will accept our invitation this year too, furthermore that he will later catch on the opportunity to play in the NHL. I´d be also interested in some of the players of the CSSR team, though they have already been on negotiation lists of different professional clubs (Nedomanský New York Rangers, Jiří and Jaroslav Holík in Boston Bruins, Horešovský in Saint Louis Blues), that´s why they are inaccesible for us."

PN: “Ours Jan Suchý has been generally evaluated as the one of the Championship’s best players in Stockholm. What is your opinion on his game?”

MD: “He’s truly excellent player for European hockey even though he’s not in as good form as he was last year. Nonetheless, he is too much offensively focused for a professional hockey style and he leaves free spaces in his defense.”

What did Suchý himself have to say about his style of play at the championship? An interview with Pavel Novotný published by Československý sport:

PN (introduction): “Defenseman of our National team, Jan Suchý, is in the centre of attention in Stockholm. Coaches of foreign teams speak about him, he’s generated a large publicity in Swedish newspapers. His extraordinary hockey skills are being appreciated, he is called the best defenseman in the world, on the other side, negative remarks about his game and manners are emerging as well.
(…)
There is also a lot of talks whether your constant effort for attacking does not weaken the team in defense which is your position.”

JS: “It’s my playing style and I hardly unlearn it now. I’m not alone who goes forward a lot. Even Franta Pospíšil engages in offense very often. Teammates at home in Dukla count with my rushes and can always solidify defense in time. It hasn’t always worked out here. It’s just a matter of cooperation, quick assessment of the situation. If I go to counter-attack, forward somewhere behind me should secure defense because I at that moment actually overtook his role. Only Holíks do that automatically because they’re used to it. Others can’t react quickly enough.”

At the end of the ’70 season, Suchý received his 2nd Golden Stick for the best CSSR player. It’s an incredible shame that that 1969 poll of Československý sport wasn’t conducted again. Writers back in 69 had actually stated that they intend to run such voting annually. Would Suchý be able to win it again? Tough to say, since his play and play of his National team declined compared to 1969, but Firsov battled through injuries and missed games, and Maltsev was a young phenom but too one-dimensional vis-à-vis Firsov and Suchý. Hard to say…

Otherwise, it's also possible that comparisons of Suchý-Orr started right after this season. Very first analogy of the “European Bobby Orr” was found in the Gól magazine, summer of 1970. Writer Pavel Rýpar reported on the 1970’ NHL season and Jaroslav Jiřík (1st Czech playing in NHL), who had played 3 games for St. Louis in 69/70, added some comments in the article. It was no one other than Jiřík who said:

“He [Orr] reminds me of Honza Suchý. Orr keeps getting in front and when he’s on the ice, Boston sometimes allows unnecessary goals, but he also scores more goals only by himself. He plays a lot, sometimes double-shifts, coach puts him on power-plays. He just has everything any hockey player can only dream of: perfect skater, physically unusually strong, with ‘European’ technique and ‘Canadian’ shooting: Amazing hockey player.”

View attachment 375552

Suchý has watched a good amount of NHL during various National team’s trips. What was he actually thinking about NHL and Orr? Here’s a clip from Suchý’s autobiography co-written with David Lukšů, Aleš Palán and published in 2008/2015 (p. 161-162):

“We enjoyed professional overseas hockey only in television. We kept watching sports channels even for 24 hours. What else to do when you’re stuck in Winnipeg with -40 degrees outside?... It didn’t seem to me that there would have been a big difference between ours and Canadian hockey. It was just more blown up through media and advertisement in overseas. Old Holík, who went to see his son to America, used to say that some of those games are completely unwatchable.

The level of overseas hockey in my opinion improved only after the arrival of Europeans – it’s not so brutal and trivial anymore. Today, when the NHL even tightened the penalties for roughing, suddenly technical players have a chance too. It wasn’t like that in our time.

I observed mainly defensemen then, who had the only task: get the puck and advance it along the boards; if a forward received it or not was already his thing to worry about. I told myself that if I was playing like that with Holík, he would kill me. Bobby Hull and Gordie Howe were the biggest attractions at the time of our trips, but I guess I had just seen the games that hadn’t gone so well for them. To me, Bobby Orr shined above everyone else: huge defenseman who skated forward a lot. Just like me.”

1970-1971
An important part in Suchý’s resumé since he was able to demonstrate over the course of entire domestic and international season that he’s capable of acting more as a shutdown stay-at-home d-man. Suchý’s league points fell down to 27 while playing 41 games, which was not even in the top 20. Suchý recorded 43, 56 and 44 points in 34-36 games in previous three seasons and he always competed with forwards for the scoring title. This wasn’t the case now as Suchý’s mere 8 goals scored was even less than what he scored in previous seasons including the 1965 (10 goals in 32 games). Suchý also led the league in +/- and remarkably registered lone 6 PIMs in the entire season. Suchý wasn’t exactly prototype of a clean, low-PIM d-man – this data was more of an exception. Jiří Hertl’s column in Gól magazine also revealed that Suchý had spent the most ice-time on PK of any player this season. Dukla Jihlava won fifth title in a row.

Low-scoring type of game continued to the 1971 WHC. Suchý scored 5 points in 10 games in Switzerland, when he had been >ppg in two previous championships. From a Russian source posted on this forum by Sanf 5 years ago, Suchý’s role changed, he was now tasked to play like a “quarterback, true defender”. Suchý won the All-Star D voting for 4th time in a row, Directoriate’s best D award was handed over to him for a 2nd time now too.

Suchý and the CSSR team played what suited them more – a rigid, Left-wing-lock defensive system where a team rather waits for an opponent to make a mistake. CSSR earned silver medal but did outperform the golden Soviets in their match-ups. First one ending 3:3, second one ending with a clear 5:2 win for the Czechs with Suchý once again the man of the game.

Anatoli Tarasov after the second USSR-CSSR game quoted by the TIP magazine:

“What a sensation when the Czechoslovak team lost the first championship match with the USA team. Well, even a bigger sensation was that this squad managed to put itself together so quickly after unsuccessful start. The 3-goal victory in Geneve in the battle with our team was absolutely the highest point of this reality. And it was totally fine. One man has stayed in front of my eyes, whose performance from this game I will never forget in my life – Jan Suchý. I rank him amongst the best players of our time. His sense for a play, his brilliant technique, his positioning, all of this is inimitable.”

Despite all of this, Jan Suchý did not consequently win a third Golden Stick, coming in close 2nd behind František Pospíšil who himself was progressing. Pospíšil scored 42 points in 36 reg. season games, which meant 5th place on the overall scoring chart. With his 32 assists Pospíšil even led the League in 1971. Pospíšil also contributed further with 7 points (2+5) from 9 games in the playoffs, which followed in April after the WHC ended. Pospíšil’s domestic play was equally great as Suchý’s, if not even greater. Pospíšil’s international play was by my account very good too, but completely overshadowed by Suchý’s talent to rise in high-pressure moments.

I’ll finally conclude this post by perhaps the most interesting piece yet. Translated article of Miloslav Charouzd (a 1950s NT player, then a prominent hockey columnist) published in Gól magazine after the 1971’ Bern & Geneve Championship, who reflects on the modern type of offense-oriented defenseman emerging in the early 1970s personified by Bobby Orr in North America and Suchý, Svedberg and Pospíšil in Europe. The article also somewhat confirms a contempory lack of high quality puck-moving Soviet d-men that could perform at a similar level as the mentioned Czech and Swedish defenders.

View attachment 375553

“A Hockey Player’s Year

Ing. Arch. MILOSLAV CHAROUZD

SUCHÝ attacks in Europe, Bobby ORR attacks in Canada!

A look at the job of hockey defenseman has lately been slowly – but steadily – changing. To defend the zone in front of goalie – that used to suffice in the past. Today, the active defensive game of the whole team requires effective help of defensemen even in the offensive zone, and often a defenseman must also be the initiator of a quick counter-attack.

Experts’ opinions on these offensive game occurences of defensemen are not as clearly unanimous though. One camp still sees the core of defenseman primarily in an actual defending and destroying the actions of an opponent. This way of defense has been practised typically by the Swedish teams. That is why Nordlander, Carlsson, Milton – but more others, except for Svedberg – operate mainly in own defensive zone. On the contrary defensemen of the most of Soviet teams have employed more aggressive way of attacking defense. This playing activity of Davydov, Kuzkin and even those of the youngest generation – Lutchenko, Tsygankov – excels especially in the area around the offensive blue line. After retrieving a rubber it is then an outright duty of a Soviet defenseman to pass to a forward in motion. USSR defensemen adhere to this type of game all too stereotypically, and their defenseman only very rarely participates in an offensive action – conversely as we can very frequently watch on Suchý or Pospíšil. Namely both of these our defensemen can immediately engage into offensive action, if the on-ice situation calls for an opportunity for a rapid thrust forward, which they always decisively and with no mercy execute.

This art of ‘deciphering the situation’ on the ice in the best and fastest way, and realizing such solutions, which are worthy of a hockey persona, has been a privilege of real hockey ‘masterminds’ on the back-end – whether it was Míla Pokorný from LTC Prague in post-war era nicknamed then as a “wandering defenseman”, or Karel Gut later, or Honza Suchý nowadays.

Hockey times are changing not only in Europe but also in Canada. Boston Bruins’ Bobby Orr, one of the youngest and yet most valuable NHL defenseman, has brought revolutionary offensive elements into already traditional defensive game of Canadian professionals. He even became the king of shooters and passers with his literally offensive game, and rivals have been personally covering him as the most dangerous forward of the team.

So do these outstanding offensive defensemen neglect their defending duties? Not even their detractors can conclusively say that – even though they still have certain objections. But hockey has again advanced in its development one step further and one fact is more than clear: Offensive defensemen also this season set the pace in all hockey matured countries. Bobby Orr stars in Canada, Svedberg is the most highly appreciated in Sweden, and with us even the two of the best players have recruited from duo of defenders Pospíšil – Suchý. Moreover, it is necessary to add the outstanding Finish defenseman Koskela to these names as well. Only Soviet hockey has no significant individual in defense after Sologubov’s departure. Generally though, the evolution suggests that many defensemen haven’t yet used up every options offered by the game. Options in current hockey discovered so far and demonstrated only by magnificient talents.”

 

[ted2019]

What are people thinking about Ebbie played in a weak era and his AS wins and Hart win aren't as good as players from other time periods? I personally have Ebbie as the top Defenseman with Laperriere behind him.

 

[ted2019]

Jan Suchý and other European defensemen from mid-60s to early 70s

I finally forced myself into writing a longer profile mainly about Jan Suchý’s prime. Suchý is probably the last well-known CSSR player of whom I felt the need to post my archive findings. This post also includes some secondary information about the state of Czech and other Euro d-men in the roughly 1965-1971 period. It doesn’t include anything about Suchý’s post-car accident career, since I’ve already covered that topic elsewhere.

1964-1965
Suchý’s first international season. I find nothing particular about him. František Tikal (WHC ‘65 All-Star and 1965 Directoriate’s Best Defenseman) was still considered by far the best Czechoslovak defenseman at this point. Suchý didn’t get a vote in tournament’s all-star voting. Coach Vladimír Kostka even wrote in winter 64-65 after the CSSR trip to Canada that Tikal could easily play in the NHL. It’s truly a shame that Tikal’s legacy have been tarnished by no one other than his 1965’ D partner in the CSSR lineup – Jan Suchý. Anyway, moving on…

1965-1966
I would cautiously refer of Suchý as the best Czechoslovak defenseman at this point. Not only that his league scoring jumped but he showed a great WHC performance. In the league, Suchý’s 32 points was good enough for the 13th place in the overall scoring (and of course the most among d-men). Dukla Jihlava (= Suchý’s team) improved in the standings and lost the title to ZKL Brno only through worse goal-differential.

But also Kopaná-Hokej magazine declared Jan Suchý, Stanislav Prýl and Jiří Holík as the three best CSSR players at the 1966 WHC, while Stadion magazine considered Jiří Holík as the best Czechoslovakian at the Ljublana 1966’ Championship… Suchý was the only CSSR d-man who did not register a single goal or assist so whatever the source of praise for his perfomance was, it surely hadn’t come from his offensive rushes.

1966-1967
Suchý probably became the best Czechoslovak player during this season. Dukla Jihlava won their first title and launched a dynasty lasting until 1974. Suchý was again the highest scoring d-men (he’d be one always from 1966 to 1970) while Dukla allowed the least amount of goals by a good margin.

I have two sources which together paints the picture. First, František Žák, former league player who observed the WHC ’67 in person, named Jozef Golonka and Jan Suchý as the only couple of players who did not disappoint.

Second, I have found Arkady Chernyshev’s list of best players at the Vienna 1967’ Championship in the Kopaná-Hokej interview. The list is following:

View attachment 375513

KH: “Which WHC players were the best to you?”

AC: “In goal – Martin. This Canadian is without a doubt the best goaltender over the last years. I would nominate our Konovalenko as the second goalie, and as a third – the American Wetzel.

Davydov was the best amongst defensemen. He played greatly in all the games and was almost flawless. That is very important in such esteemed tournament. Ragulin deserves a high praise too. From other teams’ defensemen, I would pick the Canadian Brewer and the CSSR player Suchý.

Firsov showed an outstanding game in the offense. He was certainly the best. I would name Starshinov as the second best. What a fantastic warrior who can play on the ice exactly what interests of the collective dictate. I would put the Swede Nils Nilsson on the third place, and on the fourth – Jaroslav Holík from the CSSR.”

So that’s two individuals that separately exalt Jan Suchý after otherwise horrible team performance by the Czechoslovaks (4th place at the WHC).

Furthermore, we do have already here a smaller, less-known award for the best Czechoslovak hockey players called Anketa internacionálů (can be loosely translated as The Poll of the Former National Team Players). I haven’t still found enough time to look more into this, but from what I remember, I believe the award results came from approximately 10 voters and the award was granted according to yearly – not seasonal (!) – performance. Jan Suchý is listed to win this award in 1967, which presumably means that circa 10 former players thought of him to be the CSSR player for the 2nd half of 66-67 and for the 1st half of 67-68 season.

…All this is to say that from the evidence at hand, I think we can cautiously give Jan Suchý a retro Golden Stick for the 1967 season.

A sidenote: under the information available, Suchý was likely contacted by an NHL team (Detroit Red Wings) for the first time during the summer of 1967.

1967-1968
Here’s where the real ride begins. Not only that Suchý is now playing his own league but he enters a discussion for the best player in Europe. His peak play happened in 1968-1971 and at the OG ’68, Suchý won the d-men all-star voting.

Czechoslovakia won silver but managed to upset the USSR 5:4 in quite an exciting spectacle. The game was definitely won in large part through clever coaching of Pitner&Kostka but as far as the individual players’ contributions go, Jan Suchý with his two-way game was arguably the best player on ice (hinted by the head of the CSSR hockey association Zdeněk Andršt in post-game interview).

From now on, we can see a consistent pattern with Suchý’s career – the ability to always play his best in deciding games. Thriving in the clutch Suchý also demonstrated in the League 1-2 months later. Although the 1960’s CSSR League did not offer any playoffs, a luck would have it that the previous champions (Dukla Jihlava and ZKL Brno) faced each other in the last round as the final game of the season. Jihlava was ahead 2 points but Brno would win the league with any win… The game ended with a 3:3 tie. How did the press evaluate the game?

“Big battles give birth to heroes. The Jihlavian Suchý becomes one in deciding league match between ZKL and Dukla. He stopped countless actions, blocked 17 shots with his own body, by himself several times endangered and once scored on Nadrchal. Jan Suchý is clearly the best hockey player of the season.”

To prove that Suchý wasn’t just a skater who got hot in high-pressure games but disappeared in low-key games, I will show you this list:

View attachment 375514

The list shows the final account of the best Czechoslovak players based on league games only. Reporters of Kopaná-Hokej magazine named the top goalie, d-man and forward after every game from the 67-68 season. Number behind the name reveals how many times a player was considered to be the best at his position in a particular game. 1968’ results transcripted from the picture above:

“WRITERS EVALUATED:
Lacký – Suchý – Nedomanský

In the contest of journalists for the best players of the game, here is the final ranking:

Goaltenders: Lacký (23 ‘firsts’), Termer (19), Holeček (17), Kočí (16), Nadrchal (13), Dzurilla (12), Hovora, Wohl, Mikoláš and Valášek (11) etc.

Defensemen: Suchý (31), Pospíšil (25), Gregor (11), Ondřasina, Machač, Šíma and M. Beránek (10), Tajcnár (8), Masopust and Berek (7), etc.

Forwards: Nedomanský (13), Havel (11), Bavor and Černý (10), Ševčík, Jar. Holík and Hrbatý (8), Golonka (7), Jiří Holík and Hlinka (6) etc.”

What is absurd is that Suchý was declared the top d-man 31 times while playing 36 league games. It was 86% guaranteed that Suchý was going to be the best defender whenever a hockey game started and his lead over the rest is massive. I would also point out impressive result by Pospíšil suggesting he may have been a clear 2nd best Czech D already at this point in time, despite his otherwise a bit disappointing Olympics.

Jan Suchý would have been a landslide winner of a Golden Stick trophy for the best Czechoslovak hockey player if the voting was conducted already in spring of 1968.

A sidenote: I was surprised to find out that 34 y/o František Tikal, playing basically his last season, was still viewed as a sure thing for the National team lineup! Only thing which prevented his nomination was an injury/illness.

1968-1969
Now this was one of the best seasons from any European player ever. Defenseman Suchý famously ran through the finish line as the League’s leading scorer – 1 year before Bobby Orr achieved such feat in NHL. Suchý scored 56 points (30+26) in 34 games according to official game records. He created unofficial record of all-time high number of points scored in a single league game – Dukla won 14:3 over České Budějovice on 8. 2. 1969, and Suchý contributed with 9 points (5+4).

Statistically, the 1969’ edition of Dukla Jihlava is likely the most dominant Czech or Slovak team in history. 29 wins, 6 losses, 1 tie, 59 points out of 36 games and a goal-differential of 206:83 – no other team has fared better before or since. Four Dukla players occupied the top-10 scoring rank, three Dukla players appeared on the top-5 scoring list. Just to give you an idea of Suchý’s fame, here are the two headlines from the Československý sport from this time:

“Half of the Champion is Suchý”

“Forwards, learn from Suchý!”

Now to turn the focus on international stage, what else have I found? For the 69’ season specifically, you can find some praise about Suchý’s physical game. Coach Vladimír Kostka highlighted rising quality of CSSR defense’s physical game in winter 68-69 after several clashes with Canadian squads. Czech d-men were at this point considered better than Canadian ones because, while perhaps less stronger, they avoid penalties. In fairness, Kostka noted the physicality of all Czech d-men, not of Suchy concretely, but a sentence later he wrote that Suchý had been statistically the best d-man of that series…

Anyway, Suchý won WHC ‘69 all-star voting with 144 votes out of 150 ballots. He also received ‘69 Directoriate’s Best Defenseman award. CSSR finished the championship only third after worse goal-differential than Sweden and Soviet Union (all three teams had equal amount of points). Czechoslovaks might have come ahead if it wasn’t for Suchý’s injury causing him to miss the last game vs. Sweden. Still, Suchý was probably again the best player on ice in crucial 1st game against the Soviets which was won 2:0 (Suchý scored the first goal, assisted to second goal).

By the end of the season, Suchý won the inaugural Golden Stick award for the best CSSR player. It’s fortunate that for this season we also have a one-off poll for the best player in Europe where Suchý obtained by far the most votes too.

1969-1970
A season where you start to notice some criticism of Suchý. It appears that he sometimes enjoyed attacking and carrying the puck up ice way too much. In any case, reading the late 60s/early 70s contemporary press almost makes you think that there were only two major topics: rule change allowing forchecking in all 3 zones and… everything about Suchý.

There is no sense in spending too much time on the League here, since there was nothing overly new under the sun. Dukla with Suchý as the leading player landed another victory. I’d only point out that this season saw the emergence of František Pospíšil as the Europe’s next “modern” defenseman. Pospíšil did not play as a false wing like Suchý or Lennart Svedberg from the Swedish NT, but he managed to put up similar scoring numbers like Suchý domestically (not internationally though). While Suchý blazed with speed and possessed enormous creativity in all three zones, Pospíšil was a genius passer who excelled in transition and especially in counter-attacking type of play. Suchý’s portion of points came more from goals while Pospíšil’s came largely from assists. Both were obviously great in defensive zone but their style differed. I think Suchý relied more on his speed and when he lost it, he just couldn’t find his former glory. Pospíšil distinguished himself through elite positioning. Coupled with elite conditioning and later a good strength made him to last longer than Suchý and add some impressive 30+ y/o seasons in the 2nd half of the 70s. I have also found out both had a rather weak shot. Suchý especially couldn’t do anything with his slapshot from longer distance, but it caught me as a surprise that Pospíšil’s slapshot was below-average as well. It couldn’t have been matched with shots of CSSR d-men such as Horešovský or Machač – unsurprisingly precisely these two were Suchý’ and Pospíšil’s D partners in the National team. Suchý was RD and Pospíšil LD, which then begged the question why not to create a superelite first D pair? The cooperation was tried but miserably failed – both equally liked to control the flow of the game and to have the puck on their stick a lot.

Jiří Hertl (one of the leading coaches in Czechoslovakia, Hertl’s specialties were goaltending seminars, Junior National team and oversight of league statistics) in his early 1970' review of candidates for the Golden Stick award in the Gól magazine:

“I have four big candidates – Nedomanský, Dzurilla, Černý and Suchý. (…) Jenda Suchý is slowly starting to annoy some spectators, which have been irritated by [Suchý’s] risky game in the offensive zone. But I value him highly. Perhaps I have good nerves or I trust more that it is all well thought-out teamwork with wingers. He has scored 19 goals already and just as much assists and to naysayers, who blame him for some goal allowed through a risky play, I’d like to remind that he’s recorded 37 appearances on ice when goal was allowed, while 62 appearances on ice when goal was scored, and this should only testify in his favor.”

Vladimír Kostka (National team coach) in his early 1970' review of candidates for the Golden Stick award in the Gól magazine:

“František Pospíšil is our best defending defenseman. He reaches a world class level in defensive positioning. Plays hard, balanced and calmly. Does not lose his playing composure even in the toughest situations.”

“Jan Suchý has an individualistic conception of an offensive defenseman. Offensive activity has propped him up on the first place in our scoring charts. He has enormous playing imagination and a sense for immediate resolving of situations even outside of defensive zone.”

Now I’d like to move on to the WHC 1970. Suchý won All-Star D voting again convincingly by 78 votes from 87 ballots. Though he was not granted Directoriate’s best D award – much to a surprise of not only the recipient (Svedberg) but also to a surprise of Suchý himself. From daily coverage of Československý sport you get a feeling as if Suchý was the main star of the tournament. Jan Suchý became a frequent conversational topic in post-game interviews or press conferences.

Roland Stolz (former Swedish player and a star defenseman of the early 1960s hockey) in an interview with Pavel Novotný during the Stockholm 1970’ Championship published by Československý sport:

PN: “Which defenseman do you consider the best here in Stockholm?”

RS: “There is a very simple answer to this question. Yours Suchý. I don’t consider him just a best defenseman, but also the tournament’s best player overall. Svedberg too is a good defenseman but he can’t perform at peak level in every game. Suchý can.”

Anatoli Tarasov when asked by a Československý sport’s writer about the earlier CSSR-Sweden game:

“…I cannot allow myself not to say a word on Jan Suchý. This player to me is realization of the ideal hockey player. How he can react to situations, how he changes the spot as needed, how smartly he can attack.. That’s just amazing.”

Now to cool off the temperature a bit, here’s what Mike Daski (Detroit Red Wings chiefscout for Europe) said in an interview with Pavel Novotný during the Championship published by Československý sport:

PN: “Which players have impressed you the most this year in Stockholm? Would any one of them have a chance to play in the NHL?”

MD: “Last year, we invited to our camp Svedberg from the Swedish squad, and the Finn Ketola. I have my sight on other players from Sweden, Lundström and young Hedberg, which we would like to try out. Svedberg proved himself in our camp, I hope that he will accept our invitation this year too, furthermore that he will later catch on the opportunity to play in the NHL. I´d be also interested in some of the players of the CSSR team, though they have already been on negotiation lists of different professional clubs (Nedomanský New York Rangers, Jiří and Jaroslav Holík in Boston Bruins, Horešovský in Saint Louis Blues), that´s why they are inaccesible for us."

PN: “Ours Jan Suchý has been generally evaluated as the one of the Championship’s best players in Stockholm. What is your opinion on his game?”

MD: “He’s truly excellent player for European hockey even though he’s not in as good form as he was last year. Nonetheless, he is too much offensively focused for a professional hockey style and he leaves free spaces in his defense.”

What did Suchý himself have to say about his style of play at the championship? An interview with Pavel Novotný published by Československý sport:

PN (introduction): “Defenseman of our National team, Jan Suchý, is in the centre of attention in Stockholm. Coaches of foreign teams speak about him, he’s generated a large publicity in Swedish newspapers. His extraordinary hockey skills are being appreciated, he is called the best defenseman in the world, on the other side, negative remarks about his game and manners are emerging as well.
(…)
There is also a lot of talks whether your constant effort for attacking does not weaken the team in defense which is your position.”

JS: “It’s my playing style and I hardly unlearn it now. I’m not alone who goes forward a lot. Even Franta Pospíšil engages in offense very often. Teammates at home in Dukla count with my rushes and can always solidify defense in time. It hasn’t always worked out here. It’s just a matter of cooperation, quick assessment of the situation. If I go to counter-attack, forward somewhere behind me should secure defense because I at that moment actually overtook his role. Only Holíks do that automatically because they’re used to it. Others can’t react quickly enough.”

At the end of the ’70 season, Suchý received his 2nd Golden Stick for the best CSSR player. It’s an incredible shame that that 1969 poll of Československý sport wasn’t conducted again. Writers back in 69 had actually stated that they intend to run such voting annually. Would Suchý be able to win it again? Tough to say, since his play and play of his National team declined compared to 1969, but Firsov battled through injuries and missed games, and Maltsev was a young phenom but too one-dimensional vis-à-vis Firsov and Suchý. Hard to say…

Otherwise, it's also possible that comparisons of Suchý-Orr started right after this season. Very first analogy of the “European Bobby Orr” was found in the Gól magazine, summer of 1970. Writer Pavel Rýpar reported on the 1970’ NHL season and Jaroslav Jiřík (1st Czech playing in NHL), who had played 3 games for St. Louis in 69/70, added some comments in the article. It was no one other than Jiřík who said:

“He [Orr] reminds me of Honza Suchý. Orr keeps getting in front and when he’s on the ice, Boston sometimes allows unnecessary goals, but he also scores more goals only by himself. He plays a lot, sometimes double-shifts, coach puts him on power-plays. He just has everything any hockey player can only dream of: perfect skater, physically unusually strong, with ‘European’ technique and ‘Canadian’ shooting: Amazing hockey player.”

View attachment 375552

Suchý has watched a good amount of NHL during various National team’s trips. What was he actually thinking about NHL and Orr? Here’s a clip from Suchý’s autobiography co-written with David Lukšů, Aleš Palán and published in 2008/2015 (p. 161-162):

“We enjoyed professional overseas hockey only in television. We kept watching sports channels even for 24 hours. What else to do when you’re stuck in Winnipeg with -40 degrees outside?... It didn’t seem to me that there would have been a big difference between ours and Canadian hockey. It was just more blown up through media and advertisement in overseas. Old Holík, who went to see his son to America, used to say that some of those games are completely unwatchable.

The level of overseas hockey in my opinion improved only after the arrival of Europeans – it’s not so brutal and trivial anymore. Today, when the NHL even tightened the penalties for roughing, suddenly technical players have a chance too. It wasn’t like that in our time.

I observed mainly defensemen then, who had the only task: get the puck and advance it along the boards; if a forward received it or not was already his thing to worry about. I told myself that if I was playing like that with Holík, he would kill me. Bobby Hull and Gordie Howe were the biggest attractions at the time of our trips, but I guess I had just seen the games that hadn’t gone so well for them. To me, Bobby Orr shined above everyone else: huge defenseman who skated forward a lot. Just like me.”

1970-1971
An important part in Suchý’s resumé since he was able to demonstrate over the course of entire domestic and international season that he’s capable of acting more as a shutdown stay-at-home d-man. Suchý’s league points fell down to 27 while playing 41 games, which was not even in the top 20. Suchý recorded 43, 56 and 44 points in 34-36 games in previous three seasons and he always competed with forwards for the scoring title. This wasn’t the case now as Suchý’s mere 8 goals scored was even less than what he scored in previous seasons including the 1965 (10 goals in 32 games). Suchý also led the league in +/- and remarkably registered lone 6 PIMs in the entire season. Suchý wasn’t exactly prototype of a clean, low-PIM d-man – this data was more of an exception. Jiří Hertl’s column in Gól magazine also revealed that Suchý had spent the most ice-time on PK of any player this season. Dukla Jihlava won fifth title in a row.

Low-scoring type of game continued to the 1971 WHC. Suchý scored 5 points in 10 games in Switzerland, when he had been >ppg in two previous championships. From a Russian source posted on this forum by Sanf 5 years ago, Suchý’s role changed, he was now tasked to play like a “quarterback, true defender”. Suchý won the All-Star D voting for 4th time in a row, Directoriate’s best D award was handed over to him for a 2nd time now too.

Suchý and the CSSR team played what suited them more – a rigid, Left-wing-lock defensive system where a team rather waits for an opponent to make a mistake. CSSR earned silver medal but did outperform the golden Soviets in their match-ups. First one ending 3:3, second one ending with a clear 5:2 win for the Czechs with Suchý once again the man of the game.

Anatoli Tarasov after the second USSR-CSSR game quoted by the TIP magazine:

“What a sensation when the Czechoslovak team lost the first championship match with the USA team. Well, even a bigger sensation was that this squad managed to put itself together so quickly after unsuccessful start. The 3-goal victory in Geneve in the battle with our team was absolutely the highest point of this reality. And it was totally fine. One man has stayed in front of my eyes, whose performance from this game I will never forget in my life – Jan Suchý. I rank him amongst the best players of our time. His sense for a play, his brilliant technique, his positioning, all of this is inimitable.”

Despite all of this, Jan Suchý did not consequently win a third Golden Stick, coming in close 2nd behind František Pospíšil who himself was progressing. Pospíšil scored 42 points in 36 reg. season games, which meant 5th place on the overall scoring chart. With his 32 assists Pospíšil even led the League in 1971. Pospíšil also contributed further with 7 points (2+5) from 9 games in the playoffs, which followed in April after the WHC ended. Pospíšil’s domestic play was equally great as Suchý’s, if not even greater. Pospíšil’s international play was by my account very good too, but completely overshadowed by Suchý’s talent to rise in high-pressure moments.

I’ll finally conclude this post by perhaps the most interesting piece yet. Translated article of Miloslav Charouzd (a 1950s NT player, then a prominent hockey columnist) published in Gól magazine after the 1971’ Bern & Geneve Championship, who reflects on the modern type of offense-oriented defenseman emerging in the early 1970s personified by Bobby Orr in North America and Suchý, Svedberg and Pospíšil in Europe. The article also somewhat confirms a contempory lack of high quality puck-moving Soviet d-men that could perform at a similar level as the mentioned Czech and Swedish defenders.

View attachment 375553

“A Hockey Player’s Year

Ing. Arch. MILOSLAV CHAROUZD

SUCHÝ attacks in Europe, Bobby ORR attacks in Canada!

A look at the job of hockey defenseman has lately been slowly – but steadily – changing. To defend the zone in front of goalie – that used to suffice in the past. Today, the active defensive game of the whole team requires effective help of defensemen even in the offensive zone, and often a defenseman must also be the initiator of a quick counter-attack.

Experts’ opinions on these offensive game occurences of defensemen are not as clearly unanimous though. One camp still sees the core of defenseman primarily in an actual defending and destroying the actions of an opponent. This way of defense has been practised typically by the Swedish teams. That is why Nordlander, Carlsson, Milton – but more others, except for Svedberg – operate mainly in own defensive zone. On the contrary defensemen of the most of Soviet teams have employed more aggressive way of attacking defense. This playing activity of Davydov, Kuzkin and even those of the youngest generation – Lutchenko, Tsygankov – excels especially in the area around the offensive blue line. After retrieving a rubber it is then an outright duty of a Soviet defenseman to pass to a forward in motion. USSR defensemen adhere to this type of game all too stereotypically, and their defenseman only very rarely participates in an offensive action – conversely as we can very frequently watch on Suchý or Pospíšil. Namely both of these our defensemen can immediately engage into offensive action, if the on-ice situation calls for an opportunity for a rapid thrust forward, which they always decisively and with no mercy execute.

This art of ‘deciphering the situation’ on the ice in the best and fastest way, and realizing such solutions, which are worthy of a hockey persona, has been a privilege of real hockey ‘masterminds’ on the back-end – whether it was Míla Pokorný from LTC Prague in post-war era nicknamed then as a “wandering defenseman”, or Karel Gut later, or Honza Suchý nowadays.

Hockey times are changing not only in Europe but also in Canada. Boston Bruins’ Bobby Orr, one of the youngest and yet most valuable NHL defenseman, has brought revolutionary offensive elements into already traditional defensive game of Canadian professionals. He even became the king of shooters and passers with his literally offensive game, and rivals have been personally covering him as the most dangerous forward of the team.

So do these outstanding offensive defensemen neglect their defending duties? Not even their detractors can conclusively say that – even though they still have certain objections. But hockey has again advanced in its development one step further and one fact is more than clear: Offensive defensemen also this season set the pace in all hockey matured countries. Bobby Orr stars in Canada, Svedberg is the most highly appreciated in Sweden, and with us even the two of the best players have recruited from duo of defenders Pospíšil – Suchý. Moreover, it is necessary to add the outstanding Finish defenseman Koskela to these names as well. Only Soviet hockey has no significant individual in defense after Sologubov’s departure. Generally though, the evolution suggests that many defensemen haven’t yet used up every options offered by the game. Options in current hockey discovered so far and demonstrated only by magnificient talents.”

My thing about Suchy is how good was the Czech league back in the 67-74 time frame. I mean I see that he is often called the "European" Bobby Orr. What does that mean in the context of things?

 

[The Macho King]

What are people thinking about Ebbie played in a weak era and his AS wins and Hart win aren't as good as players from other time periods? I personally have Ebbie as the top Defenseman with Laperriere behind him.

Yeah I view the late 20s/early to mid 30s as one of the stronger eras. If we went through the list I think we would have a pretty strong contingent from that era represented - especially as a percentage of the league.