I know that Aho and Kopitar came over at 19 in their D+1 years, but not sure about the age of the rest. but without checking all the ages, I think this is both a combo of being good enough and also being ready...hindsight being 20/20 we rushed chytil, lias and kravtsov over and should have left them where they were to 'bake' for a few years. we are doing that with Nils and hopefully it pays off down the road.
Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part V
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I know that Aho and Kopitar came over at 19 in their D+1 years, but not sure about the age of the rest. but without checking all the ages, I think this is both a combo of being good enough and also being ready...hindsight being 20/20 we rushed chytil, lias and kravtsov over and should have left them where they were to 'bake' for a few years. we are doing that with Nils and hopefully it pays off down the road.
The only hang up with moving Tony to the left side is I'm still not entirely sure where he plays or who he plays with. Do you make Fox carry him defensively on the 2nd pairing? You certainly can't put him with Trouba against the other team's top line players every night. So you solve the problem of having that much money invested in your RD but I don't think he balances the pairings that well. Not unless this team pivots really hard and starts icing Fox and Lindgren against those top lines and gives TDA/Trouba cushier match ups.
I can appreciate the idea of Tony having the puck a lot and driving offense but even the best play drivers still play ~45% of the game without the puck. That's a major chunk of the game where Tony's limitations can be exposed.
I'm certainly not trying to trade him for scraps or desperate to get him off the team but at some point the Rangers will have to address the holes in the roster. Our LD prospect pipeline looks fantastic but remember that barely two years ago our center pipeline looked fantastic as well with Chytil, Andersson, and Howden. Two of them are still working on their pro-game and one might never play another game for the franchise. It's important to not put all of your hopes on guys coming from within to fill the holes you have.
I can appreciate the idea of Tony having the puck a lot and driving offense but even the best play drivers still play ~45% of the game without the puck. That's a major chunk of the game where Tony's limitations can be exposed.
I'm certainly not trying to trade him for scraps or desperate to get him off the team but at some point the Rangers will have to address the holes in the roster. Our LD prospect pipeline looks fantastic but remember that barely two years ago our center pipeline looked fantastic as well with Chytil, Andersson, and Howden. Two of them are still working on their pro-game and one might never play another game for the franchise. It's important to not put all of your hopes on guys coming from within to fill the holes you have.
I’ll say this when Fox and DeAngelo are on the ice they basically dominate shifts. I admittedly haven’t looked at numbers on that but from strictly the eye test. They are usually pushing the play. I’ve never seen them pinned in their zone together and both will get better defensively.
you move him around too depending on how the game is going. Move him back to the third pairs when it’s tight push Lindgren up. Stuff like that. But you figure out a way to get him his minutes. You don’t trade him because you have 3 other righties when he’s the most dangerous of all of them
you move him around too depending on how the game is going. Move him back to the third pairs when it’s tight push Lindgren up. Stuff like that. But you figure out a way to get him his minutes. You don’t trade him because you have 3 other righties when he’s the most dangerous of all of them
eco's bones
Registered User
I wouldn't trade Trouba and I don't like the idea of all 3 of our RD being undersized. Trouba to me is a key player for us going forward and he is the guy who should get the lion's share of tougher defensive situations---the penalty killing, the matchups against other team's better lines, the protecting of leads late in games. Someone to do the grunt work. There are times when physical force is important and we need that element on both sides of our defense.
I don't see the Rangers having an issue getting offense from their D with a defense that includes Fox, Lundkvist, Miller and Trouba + whoever else we eventually have on our roster. Added to which for the foreseeable future we'll have Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko and Lafreniere. I don't see how we're not going to have a very good offense. The questions are how do we become deeper depthwise and better defensively and how are we going to manage all this relative to the cap and a long term and expensive contract to DeAngelo does not seem like a good idea when you have a guy at least very close to making the jump right now ready to step into his spot. We have to make our ELC's work for us as much as possible. We need to make sure we have the wherewithal to allocate $'s for Zibanejad, Kakko, Lafreniere, Shesterkin and Fox if we decide to lock them up and IMO all those guys are more important to the future of the team than DeAngelo.
I don't see the Rangers having an issue getting offense from their D with a defense that includes Fox, Lundkvist, Miller and Trouba + whoever else we eventually have on our roster. Added to which for the foreseeable future we'll have Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko and Lafreniere. I don't see how we're not going to have a very good offense. The questions are how do we become deeper depthwise and better defensively and how are we going to manage all this relative to the cap and a long term and expensive contract to DeAngelo does not seem like a good idea when you have a guy at least very close to making the jump right now ready to step into his spot. We have to make our ELC's work for us as much as possible. We need to make sure we have the wherewithal to allocate $'s for Zibanejad, Kakko, Lafreniere, Shesterkin and Fox if we decide to lock them up and IMO all those guys are more important to the future of the team than DeAngelo.
moving him to the left isn't a perfect solution but still an option that could be explored to see how he fits and meshes...sometimes chemistry is more important than how a pair looks on paper. and really no risk or harm in trying it.
I'm certainly not opposed to trying it. Especially if a great trade option doesn't exist this off-season. If he gets a Nurse-like deal then you can punt on this decision for a little while and see if there's a good mix to be had.
WojtekWolski86
Registered User
- Nov 14, 2019
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Tony has come a long way while hes been here.
This year was his put up or shut up year. 3rd organization, checkered on and off the ice reputation, shoddy defensive play, not enough offense to compensate for his negatives like turnovers and ending up in the dog house.
This year he really stepped up his game, especially offensively. He looked like his draft videos. His defensive game improved to a point where he was running around his own end with his head cut off. Was he great defensively? No. But he wasnt a liability where he was an automatic minus and most of the time drove the puck out of the d zone.
The question is what is the long term plan with 3 RH puck moving defenseman and Trouba locked up long term on the right side?
This year was his put up or shut up year. 3rd organization, checkered on and off the ice reputation, shoddy defensive play, not enough offense to compensate for his negatives like turnovers and ending up in the dog house.
This year he really stepped up his game, especially offensively. He looked like his draft videos. His defensive game improved to a point where he was running around his own end with his head cut off. Was he great defensively? No. But he wasnt a liability where he was an automatic minus and most of the time drove the puck out of the d zone.
The question is what is the long term plan with 3 RH puck moving defenseman and Trouba locked up long term on the right side?
All I can say with confidence is that TDA won't be on this team after this upcoming season unless he moves to wing. Rangers are not going to have 3, 5'11 defenseman on the team. That is a recipe for never winning in the playoffs. 2 is pushing it but it's fine if they have the talent of a Fox and Lundkvist. The same very reason that Reunanen and Jones will never play a game here.
Shattenkirk hit 56 with the Rangers? That's news to me.
If you recall, last season ended prematurely. DeAngelo was well on his way to a 60 point season. Look at the games played and what his point total prorates to. It is not taking a sample of 20 games here.
No one needs for them to hit that every year. DeAngelo has been doing it for well over a year. Would he hit 60 every year? Of course not. But how many defensemen have done that by 24 that you can count?
Is this supposed to be some sort of an axiom that his point totals are heavily dependent on forwards scoring?
#IAmUtterlyIncapableOfPostingAnythingOtherThanIdiocy
Uncle Scrooge
Hockey Bettor
Huh? I wasn't asked specifically about Rangers dmen.
Im well aware of that but if you pay a guy because of 60 pts then you expect to him to do something close to that virtually every year no? Otherwise what's the point of bringing up that point total in the first place, especially considering the talent he has to work with and his role on the team.
I'd have to do some digging on that but of course it's an impressive thing to do no doubt.
The point is Bread and Zibanejad had careers years in the same season and that type of play has an impact on any player creating offense with them. That makes it tough to estimate where ADA would settle at with this team. He also scored 15 goals and that type of goalscoring for a dman is incredibly tough to sustain. Are we talking about a guy who is going to see more 40 point seasons than 60, or the other way around. And i guess more importantly, how much of the Rangers offensive success is credited to him? Could they still have someone else do the job and not lose too much of their offensive creativity/PP while improving in other needed areas?
Those are questions i don't have answers to.
But actually, as far as comparisons i'll bite. Erik Gustafsson had 60 pts with the Hawks last year. He's older, but yeah. Year later nobody considers him as a strong top 4 D. It's actually a great comparable because Kane/Toews had career years and Gustafsson had a big year in goals himself. And similar to ADA he's had his issues being a steady defender.
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OrlandK
Registered User
Nils is an excellent 20 year old prospect. Very talented, quite undersized and pretty soft. Never played in North America and won't in the upcoming season.
TDA, at 24 years old is one of the best offensive dmen in the NHL who just improved dramatically from the previous year. He's a bit undersized but plays up a bit in size due to his toughness (not soft). Still has some defensive issues but they have diminished somewhat over time. There has been no consideration whatsoever of moving him to wing.
Guess who is more likely to be a Ranger dman in the 21-22 season.
also given how much his game as grown in the last 1 1/2 years, I'd really like to see Tony play with a real partner instead of the ghost of marc staal before writing him off defensively and not being able to play against certain guys.
eco's bones
Registered User
We haven't really seen much of Lundkvist in North America and I think it's premature to call him soft. He seems to be growing into his body and gradually getting stronger though.
DeAngelo is an excellent at fighting for his size but he's not really a physical player. He's not a big hitter or a particularly strong player. He's a 5'11 180 lb. guy and he's not really stocky. Fights come around infrequently these days--not a great way to judge how tough someone is unless you're Reaves or Chara. Hitting, taking hits, blocking shots, fighting your way through a long shift where you're hurting or absolutely gassed, not backing off or backing down is more how I look at toughness. If it were the 1990's--Probert, Kocur, Domi, McSorley, Twist etc. but this ain't the 1990's. Not too many guys like that around anymore.
Mandar
The Real Maven
Radical idea.....let Messier work with him on how to take faceoffs....maybe he can be that playmaking center that is kind of gritty (even though he has a horrible shot).
DeAngelo has been trending in this direction for a bit, he didn't just explode on the scene like Gustafsson did.
18 of his 30 points in 2018-19 came in the teams last 29 games. Thats a pace of around 51 over 60. No joke, he lost 6 points in 18-19 on goals that got called back on offsides. Yes those aren't goals to begin with, but thats a ridiculous number and shows at least, that he was consistently getting the puck to players in areas where they can finish.
Looks like he just picked up where he left off. Yes, playing with good offensive players helps (do you feel this way about John Carlson?), but he also had a hand in those players being as productive as they were. As for the PP? It looked A LOT worse when he wasn't on the top unit. A big part of the reason it struggled as much as it did in the post season was because he played on one leg.
He was one of the best offensive defensemen in CHL history. Its not like the ability for him to be a really good point producer at this level was severely questioned, it's what got him taken in the 1st round of his draft year despite all of the other concerns in the first place. With out the hot headedness, he would have easily been a top 10 selection and no one would be questioning his production this year.
Thirty One
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- Dec 28, 2003
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Lot to address here, but I think his close-in to mid-range shot is good, it's just his point shot that's a whisper.
When I made my post it was specifically regarding what has happened in Rangerland.
I would be paying him for what he has been doing for over a year now. That would make this a good gamble for me. Everything is a risk. but I would rather gamble on the side that he does it here rather than elsewhere.
No, they are not going to have career years all the time, but some of the younger players will step up. That is the point of such defensemen. They will get the puck to the other players. Didn't really make that much of a difference to Zubov to whom to send the puck to.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
Best transition defenseman in the NHL, hell, nearly best transition player in the NHL.
Last season the Rangers had more high danger scoring chances when DeAngelo was on the ice than any other team with any defenseman (which is ridiculous considering how poor the Rangers were). Remember his 3 goal 5 game night, do you know how many defensemen in NHL history have done that?
Last season the Rangers had more high danger scoring chances when DeAngelo was on the ice than any other team with any defenseman (which is ridiculous considering how poor the Rangers were). Remember his 3 goal 5 game night, do you know how many defensemen in NHL history have done that?
Amazing Kreiderman
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- Apr 11, 2011
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Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
eco's bones
Registered User
It's obvious you know nothing about Lundkvist as a prospect. Soft is the last thing he is and TDA is far softer than he is. TDA basically never hits anybody. As far as who is more likely to be a Rangers dman in 21-22. Lundkvist and it's not close. I'll make sure I laugh at you when TDA is outta here. Nobody cares about fighting anymore. It's basically useless now and players don't do it in the playoffs unless they are losing a game badly and have no answers. Just because a bad defensive defenseman like TDA gets into a couple of scraps every year doesn't mean he's not soft. When he actually hits somebody wake me.
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1) TDA is far from a bad defensive defenseman
2) Lundkvist is still ultimately unproven at the NHL level
3) Short of a team offering something big time substantial for TDA, he will be here next year. I'll laugh at you when that's the case, lol
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