One of the many reasons it is not a first choice. As Edge mentioned, he started to put it together the previous year. So trading a 60 point, 24 year old defenseman is not such a slam dunk. There are reasons such players have not been seen in NYR since the days of Leetch and Zubov. Virtually no one is untradeable, but trading a player like this had better make the trading partners fan base cringe at what they would need to part with.
Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part V
- Thread starter aufheben
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 45,070
- 40,920
He's a possession player. That alone is a positive. The opponent can't score if you have the puck
I wouldn't trade him. If 3 out of the 4 from the list of Strome, ADA, Buch and Georgiev had to go, then I keep ADA and let the others go.
JCProdigy
Registered User
DeAngelo and Chytil for Samuelsson and Robitaille (e5)
Truth be told, that is exactly what I would do. Georgiev does not even factor into the equation here.
BUT, I think that a lot is going to depend on what DeAngelo's contract demands. BUT BUT, there are clear examples where this makes sense (Theodore, Werenki). BUT BUT BUT, I believe that it goes back to what contract and length DeAngelo won't back down on
Uncle Scrooge
Hockey Bettor
Shattenkirk had 56, and ADA’s never hit 60
If you want to use point paces what are the chances Bread and Zibby score 107-112 points every year?
When those guys score less so will ADA
Last edited:
Monahan for DeAngelo is the only thing out there that intrigues me.
Monahan brings a goal scorer’s tough and some two-way acumen. He’s not Jesper Fast defensively but he could play a similar role while complimenting Panarin well and being able to put more pucks in the net. Our center depth would instantly be much more respectable.
Overall we are, in my opinion, more likely than not to “lose” a DeAngelo trade, in that he’s super young and already showing that he can live up to his tremendous upside, but... with the RHD depth that we have, trading from a position of strength to enhance a weakness still makes sense. Monahan is a good goal scorer and solid all around player. He’d pair well with Panarin and having Z/Monahan as a 1-2 is a pretty solid combo.
Something like Strome, DeAngelo, Georgiev for Hanifin + Monahan would be even better. Money for Monahan and Hanifin comes from what would have been paid to extend Strome/DeAngelo and Hanifin, to me, is a very compatible partner for Trouba.
Monahan brings a goal scorer’s tough and some two-way acumen. He’s not Jesper Fast defensively but he could play a similar role while complimenting Panarin well and being able to put more pucks in the net. Our center depth would instantly be much more respectable.
Overall we are, in my opinion, more likely than not to “lose” a DeAngelo trade, in that he’s super young and already showing that he can live up to his tremendous upside, but... with the RHD depth that we have, trading from a position of strength to enhance a weakness still makes sense. Monahan is a good goal scorer and solid all around player. He’d pair well with Panarin and having Z/Monahan as a 1-2 is a pretty solid combo.
Something like Strome, DeAngelo, Georgiev for Hanifin + Monahan would be even better. Money for Monahan and Hanifin comes from what would have been paid to extend Strome/DeAngelo and Hanifin, to me, is a very compatible partner for Trouba.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
If, when all the chips fall and we trade ADA, and we end up with some LD on the roster (either via ADA trade or otherwise) who is a lot more defensively sound than ADA (which is not a large threshold to pass) but is not as good offensively as ADA (high bar to reach)...that's totally fine.
Net positive, IMO.
I am confident in the ability of other D on the roster to provide offensive throughput that will get close-ish to what ADA provides. Also, with some fine-tuning of the forwards and the addition of Laf/a better Kakko, the offense will come and enough to overcome the deficit we'd have without ADA.
If we do keep Tony, I do wonder where they will line him up.
Net positive, IMO.
I am confident in the ability of other D on the roster to provide offensive throughput that will get close-ish to what ADA provides. Also, with some fine-tuning of the forwards and the addition of Laf/a better Kakko, the offense will come and enough to overcome the deficit we'd have without ADA.
If we do keep Tony, I do wonder where they will line him up.
Not only do I not want to trade him because of his ability alone...
But with his temperament? If we ever played his new team in a playoff he'd have a 10 point series.
Former Rangers regardless of skill level always score against us.
DeAngelo...would engulf us.
I say bridge him and let it be an issue in 2 years after Nils has had a year in Hartford and actually see we what we have in Nils.
Then go from there
Eventually somebody's gotta go UNLESS TDA is moved to the left side.
I think that's something worth exploring
But with his temperament? If we ever played his new team in a playoff he'd have a 10 point series.
Former Rangers regardless of skill level always score against us.
DeAngelo...would engulf us.
I say bridge him and let it be an issue in 2 years after Nils has had a year in Hartford and actually see we what we have in Nils.
Then go from there
Eventually somebody's gotta go UNLESS TDA is moved to the left side.
I think that's something worth exploring
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
I think, if you have a trade lined up somewhere for a LD of Brodin/Dunn/etc. caliber, you pull the trigger on an ADA trade b/c you can get a great haul from him.
The offense he provides is very good, but I think if you get a medium/long term player who is defensively as strong as Tony is offensively...it's a no-brainer.
A lot of directions NYR can take this offseason with their RFAs, and it'll be interesting what they do with it, especially since getting 1OA kinda flipped things up a bit.
EDIT: And obviously, it goes without saying, that COVID and the ramifications that followed with the ensuing cap and whatnot have changed things drastically.
The offense he provides is very good, but I think if you get a medium/long term player who is defensively as strong as Tony is offensively...it's a no-brainer.
A lot of directions NYR can take this offseason with their RFAs, and it'll be interesting what they do with it, especially since getting 1OA kinda flipped things up a bit.
EDIT: And obviously, it goes without saying, that COVID and the ramifications that followed with the ensuing cap and whatnot have changed things drastically.
Last edited:
JimmyG89
Registered User
- May 1, 2010
- 10,139
- 9,013
DeAngelo just look put up the 39th most points per games played in the NHL on defense the last 10 seasons.
As a fanbase, we've literally been asking for this player forever. The one thing that usually happens with these types of players is their defense really catches up to them around 27-28. The player I'm seeing DeAngelo resemble more and more is Brian Campbell. He also aged very well in the league.
Don't think I would hesitate to heavily invest in him, not worried about Fox being better overall either. If Fox gets that good, DeAngelo with a 6M cap hit and term would be in demand around the league.
I don't think trading him for a 2C is the way to go right now, his value is more than just about anyone available for that role.
As a fanbase, we've literally been asking for this player forever. The one thing that usually happens with these types of players is their defense really catches up to them around 27-28. The player I'm seeing DeAngelo resemble more and more is Brian Campbell. He also aged very well in the league.
Don't think I would hesitate to heavily invest in him, not worried about Fox being better overall either. If Fox gets that good, DeAngelo with a 6M cap hit and term would be in demand around the league.
I don't think trading him for a 2C is the way to go right now, his value is more than just about anyone available for that role.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,767
- 27,709
I would trade Lundkvist before DeAngelo. Aren’t we hoping Lundkvist has the impact DeAngelo already has? I get the money issue but still.
DeAngelo is a huge asset, no doubt, but this is a team that is unbalanced. We just finished 5th in the NHL in goals for/goals for per game but 16th in the NHL, and 22nd in goals allowed/goals allowed per game. We can afford to drop to 9th in goals for and improve to 15th, for instance, in goals allowed. I can’t imagine the offense will take that much of a hit, despite what a catalyst ADA is, with Kakko taking a step forward and Lafreniere being added. Even if we take a dip for a year while these guys (and others like Chytil/Kravstov get some seasoning), long term we look to have a very solid potential for offensive output. We lack in shutdown capability, both on defense and up front.
I’ve been against moving ADA all year, but if there is a move out there that bolsters our ability to prevent goals, strengthens our center depth (arguably the most important aspect of a contender) or transfers some of the overloaded RH strength to balance the LH side of the defense, I admit, it’s the right time to look at the options that exist.
I’ve been against moving ADA all year, but if there is a move out there that bolsters our ability to prevent goals, strengthens our center depth (arguably the most important aspect of a contender) or transfers some of the overloaded RH strength to balance the LH side of the defense, I admit, it’s the right time to look at the options that exist.
eco's bones
Registered User
If the Rangers had had some foreknowledge of the flat cap that's coming I think they would have moved Kreider. Just saying.
The longer Nils Lundkvist stays in Sweden the more likely he makes the jump straight to the NHL when he finally does come over. He's not strictly an offensive guy. He broke into the SHL in his draft year pretty much as a defense first guy and his offense has just taken off really in the last year. He's a very skilled two way defenseman. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any under 20 defenseman in the history of the SHL has ever put up better offensive numbers than he did last year. There's a lot to be excited about with him and we absolutely should take full advantage of his ELC.
So you'll have Nils coming in on an ELC probably next year and Tony probably going to arbitration this year and if Tony wins he's probably doing $6 or better and his next deal very likely will be higher. To me it makes sense to move on from Tony--if not this year then next. He can put up a lot of points but he's not really a 1D kind of defensemen because he's not an all situations guy. Real 1D's for me do everything--offense and defense. Tony is a very good player nonetheless and a lot of teams could use him but he's more Mathieu Schneider than he is Chris Chelios and the Rangers issue really isn't about squeezing more offense out of their lineup---it's learning as a team to play better defensively.
The longer Nils Lundkvist stays in Sweden the more likely he makes the jump straight to the NHL when he finally does come over. He's not strictly an offensive guy. He broke into the SHL in his draft year pretty much as a defense first guy and his offense has just taken off really in the last year. He's a very skilled two way defenseman. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any under 20 defenseman in the history of the SHL has ever put up better offensive numbers than he did last year. There's a lot to be excited about with him and we absolutely should take full advantage of his ELC.
So you'll have Nils coming in on an ELC probably next year and Tony probably going to arbitration this year and if Tony wins he's probably doing $6 or better and his next deal very likely will be higher. To me it makes sense to move on from Tony--if not this year then next. He can put up a lot of points but he's not really a 1D kind of defensemen because he's not an all situations guy. Real 1D's for me do everything--offense and defense. Tony is a very good player nonetheless and a lot of teams could use him but he's more Mathieu Schneider than he is Chris Chelios and the Rangers issue really isn't about squeezing more offense out of their lineup---it's learning as a team to play better defensively.
the $$ issue is a HUGE deal in a capped league when you are talking about a guy probably making $6+ mil and a guy on a ELC...but no we shouldn't be hoping lundkvist has the same impact. Nils is a more of a two-way dman that is good defensively. Style-wise I think Adam Fox would be the closer comparison, will he be that good? we can only hope. But it would be less offense for better defense (potentially).
but the discussion is 100% about cap space and allocating of that the cap space. No one should be arguing that Nils Lundkvist, having never played in NA, is better than Tony DeAngelo. Maybe one day he will be, but its not even a discussion right now. The argument/discussion to have is about the value of allocating the majority of our cap space to wingers and RD. And would we be better as a team overall by allocating some of that $$ to LD or C even if you are downgrading at RD. Nils doesn't need to be better than ADA, he just needs to be good enough that the upgrade in another area that is a weakness outweighs any drop on RD and makes us a better team overall...
the answer to this question all depends on what player you can get back for him (and it needs to be 1 for 1, equal level player. trading him for a package makes zero sense) and that is going to be hard to find cause Tony is hugely valuable...and I think he will be signed to an extension at the end of the day cause we aren't going to find an available player that fits this. but that's still the discussion to be made. We aren't/shouldn't be trading him just to free up a spot for Lundkvist.
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 45,070
- 40,920
If you're good enough, you make the jump straight to the NHL.
Some examples of EU players who never played in the AHL:
Sebastian Aho
Joonas Donskoi
Carl Söderberg
Artturi Lehkonen
Emil Bemström
Jesper Bratt
Alexander Steen
Anze Kopitar
Johnny Oduya
Tobias Enström
Vladislav Gavrikov
Teemu Selanne
Jussi Jokinen
Tuomo Ruutu
Kimmo Timmonen
Dominik Kubalík
Michal Kempný
Marek Židlický
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
This does feel like zubov all over again and he turned into a hall of famer
don’t be stupid the kid enjoys and has thrived playing the left side during his career. He’s not a great defensive player from either side so why bother worrying about it. Not to mention Lundkvist is not here yet. Probably won’t be for another year and when he is ready should not be expected to be a top 4 dman off the hop.
don’t be stupid the kid enjoys and has thrived playing the left side during his career. He’s not a great defensive player from either side so why bother worrying about it. Not to mention Lundkvist is not here yet. Probably won’t be for another year and when he is ready should not be expected to be a top 4 dman off the hop.
eco's bones
Registered User
Add Artemi Panarin and Henrik Lundqvist.
FWIW I think Nils Lundkvist could make the jump to the NHL right now--a year from now I expect him to be even better. I think the Rangers are already looking at K'Andre Miller as having a legit shot to take an NHL job next year and I would rank Lundkvist over Miller as a prospect.
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 45,070
- 40,920
I expect Lundkvist to be part of the NT for at least the Euro Hockey Challenge and Euro Hockey Tour so the earliest he can come over is late May in that case
there is also no rush to make this deal unless there is a trade that we can't pass cause he will still be very tradeable after he signs an extension and his value might even go up if he's signed long term....so you can sign him, try him on LD possible, wait for Nils etc and then if it makes sense to move him he still will have huge value
I never thought I'd say this but given the discussions yesterday about games being postponed, i've never been happier to see the 'trade trouba' thread brought back lol
- Status
Latest posts
-
-
Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition- Latest: Lafleurs Guy
-
