Proposal: Tolvanen moves to the Big Apple

[AintLifeGrand]

To NYR: Tolvanen- Has proven he can score at a 20 goal clip for an entire season and has untapped Upside

To Preds: Kravstov- Give the little Russian boy a change of scenery to achieve greatness.

Click to read more...

 

[Djp]

Rangers need to add their 1st…

 

[Boondock]

As a person with no horse in the race, this seems like a reasonable deal. A former 1st round pick that hasn't reached the level at the NHL many thought after his draft and his draft + 1 years, in exchange for a player that couldn't crack the opening night roster, so requested a trade, still has talent, but lost some of his early luster. More risk for the Preds, potentially more reward as well.

 

[elmaco]

I'd keep Tolvanen. Finns in general have a better chance of making it, mandatory English lessons (pizza boy is an anomaly) and better overall education contribute.

 

[Soundgarden]

Not trading Tolvanen

 

[Maurice of Orange]

To NYR: Tolvanen- Has proven he can score at a 20 goal clip for an entire season and has untapped Upside

To Preds: Kravstov- Give the little Russian boy a change of scenery to achieve greatness.

I wouldn’t do this deal from a Nashville perspective unless Kravtsov signs an extension, since Kravtsov is an RFA at the end of this season and could just sign with any KHL deal potentially for several seasons.

 

[beardawg]

I'd rather do Forsberg for Kakko. Build with the Finns!

 

[McJedi]

I'd rather do Forsberg for Kakko. Build with the Finns!

That’s an interesting offer. Not sure how NYR fit that into their cap. They’d need to move someone else wouldn’t they.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

I'd keep Tolvanen. Finns in general have a better chance of making it, mandatory English lessons (pizza boy is an anomaly) and better overall education contribute.

Nothing you said is inherently true

Shoot puck score, defend sometimes speaks way better hockey intelligence than any language on earth

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

It could be a fair swap depending on subjective scouting opinions of the players themselves... I don't think either one of them has a large enough body of work yet for a very conclusive consensus to exist. If our Preds scouts thought that Kravstov was definitely going to be a 20-goal NHL player with a bit more of power game, I could see them taking this deal, since the organization does seem a little reluctant to really embrace Tolvanen. I think they're undervaluing Tolvanen, he is playing really well at both ends from what I can see, and should have a bigger offensive role too. But if they were really sold on Kravstov's potential, they might like him more.

However... the main catch is that the Preds need a player RIGHT NOW. Tolvanen is a good player right now, and he's pretty affordable, and I think the Preds very much need him in the immediate term as they attempt to make the playoffs. If it's more likely that Kravstov still requires time before he's ready to contribute as an NHL regular, then I don't see how the Preds could make this deal, even if they really liked Kravstov. It would have to be more of an offseason deal than one they could think about right now.

 

[bernmeister]

It could be a fair swap depending on subjective scouting opinions of the players themselves... I don't think either one of them has a large enough body of work yet for a very conclusive consensus to exist. If our Preds scouts thought that Kravstov was definitely going to be a 20-goal NHL player with a bit more of power game, I could see them taking this deal, since the organization does seem a little reluctant to really embrace Tolvanen. I think they're undervaluing Tolvanen, he is playing really well at both ends from what I can see, and should have a bigger offensive role too. But if they were really sold on Kravstov's potential, they might like him more.

However... the main catch is that the Preds need a player RIGHT NOW. Tolvanen is a good player right now, and he's pretty affordable, and I think the Preds very much need him in the immediate term as they attempt to make the playoffs. If it's more likely that Kravstov still requires time before he's ready to contribute as an NHL regular, then I don't see how the Preds could make this deal, even if they really liked Kravstov. It would have to be more of an offseason deal than one they could think about right now.

This ^ except I think if you give Krav decent top 6 material same linemates he gets there pretty quickly.

He has the tools.
He gets ribbed b'c he was here 20 games last yr
He was here 20 games for a shit team decimated by injuries, and worst of all, unlike that effin scumbag Lias Andersson, did not get top 2 lines opportunity.
Instead he got 4th line mins + linemates after idiot coach Q said he's not a 4th liner.

Is there any reason why this guy should not feel good about his Rangers experience to date, coupling this w/reportedly Drury did not want him?

 

[Djp]

At this point Tolvanen is what you hope Kratsov becomes. Rangers would have to add.

 

[bernmeister]

At this point Tolvanen is what you hope Kratsov becomes. Rangers would have to add.

It is not clear that Krav does not have more upside

 

[SundherDome]

This ^ except I think if you give Krav decent top 6 material same linemates he gets there pretty quickly.

He has the tools.
He gets ribbed b'c he was here 20 games last yr
He was here 20 games for a shit team decimated by injuries, and worst of all, unlike that effin scumbag Lias Andersson, did not get top 2 lines opportunity.
Instead he got 4th line mins + linemates after idiot coach Q said he's not a 4th liner.

Is there any reason why this guy should not feel good about his Rangers experience to date, coupling this w/reportedly Drury did not want him?

He had some chances with top 6 linemates last year. He did spend a lot of time with Howden and Rooney for sure but to say he didn't get top six opportunities is wrong.

 

[abo9]

Tolvanen is not given top 6 mins in Nashville

I dont think they have space for Kravtsov in their top 6? Which is the basis of the trade

 

[elmaco]

Nothing you said is inherently true

Shoot puck score, defend sometimes speaks way better hockey intelligence than any language on earth

Yeah, but if you can't understand what your coach/teammates are telling you, you're effed.

 

[bernmeister]

He had some chances with top 6 linemates last year. He did spend a lot of time with Howden and Rooney for sure but to say he didn't get top six opportunities is wrong.

no it is not.
He did not spend meaninful mins like Lias did w/Zib, Kreider, Panarin, etc.
Instead they continued with that foolish bs of trying to make playoffs last season instead of dealing Buch earlier which would have gotten more and would have freed up even more mins for Krav w/top Fs.

I said his skills project able to play pivot
should have tried Kakko - Krav - panarin
but I'm now thinking
Kreider - Barron/Krav - Kakko

pt remains, this guy has NOT had a fair shake so far.


This is besides the fact that he has the skills to do

 

[SundherDome]

no it is not.
He did not spend meaninful mins like Lias did w/Zib, Kreider, Panarin, etc.
Instead they continued with that foolish bs of trying to make playoffs last season instead of dealing Buch earlier which would have gotten more and would have freed up even more mins for Krav w/top Fs.

I said his skills project able to play pivot
should have tried Kakko - Krav - panarin
but I'm now thinking
Kreider - Barron/Krav - Kakko

pt remains, this guy has NOT had a fair shake so far.


This is besides the fact that he has the skills to do

You said he wasn't given top two line opportunities, when in fact he played time on the top two lines.

It's okay to be wrong.

 

[bernmeister]

You said he wasn't given top two line opportunities, when in fact he played time on the top two lines.

It's okay to be wrong.

I'm not wrong.
I specifcally said "meaningful minutes".
That's what Lias got.
It is not what Krav got.

Meaningful is some variant of extensive
Zib/Panarin/Kreider
he did not get that extensively, but minimally.

Nice try as to who is wrong here, but physician, heal thyself.

 

[SundherDome]

I'm not wrong.
I specifcally said "meaningful minutes".
That's what Lias got.
It is not what Krav got.

Meaningful is some variant of extensive
Zib/Panarin/Kreider
he did not get that extensively, but minimally.

Nice try as to who is wrong here, but physician, heal thyself.

bernmeister said: ↑

This ^ except I think if you give Krav decent top 6 material same linemates he gets there pretty quickly.

He has the tools.
He gets ribbed b'c he was here 20 games last yr
He was here 20 games for a shit team decimated by injuries, and worst of all, unlike that effin scumbag Lias Andersson, did not get top 2 lines opportunity.
Instead he got 4th line mins + linemates after idiot coach Q said he's not a 4th liner.

Is there any reason why this guy should not feel good about his Rangers experience to date, coupling this w/reportedly Drury did not want him?

I don't see meaningful in there but ok. You added it after you got the permit to move those goalposts​

 

[bernmeister]

bernmeister said: ↑

This ^ except I think if you give Krav decent top 6 material same linemates he gets there pretty quickly.

He has the tools.
He gets ribbed b'c he was here 20 games last yr
He was here 20 games for a shit team decimated by injuries, and worst of all, unlike that effin scumbag Lias Andersson, did not get top 2 lines opportunity.
Instead he got 4th line mins + linemates after idiot coach Q said he's not a 4th liner.

Is there any reason why this guy should not feel good about his Rangers experience to date, coupling this w/reportedly Drury did not want him?

I don't see meaningful in there but ok. You added it after you got the permit to move those goalposts​

In pertinent part I said:
"no it is not.
He did not spend meaningful mins like Lias did w/Zib, Kreider, Panarin, etc.
Instead they continued with that foolish bs of trying to make playoffs last season instead of dealing Buch earlier which would have gotten more and would have freed up even more mins for Krav w/top Fs."

It was a clarification that was required b'c you did not admit the core premise which is that he did not get any substantial level of mins with the top guys incl the 3 I identified, unlike Lias.

In the earlier quote you selected, I specifically said "worst of all, unlike that effin scumbag Lias Andersson, did not get top 2 lines opportunity."

You chose to ignore that, which is fine, but then you misrpresented context as you went on.

So much for falsely representing moving goalposts

 

[SundherDome]

In pertinent part I said:
"no it is not.
He did not spend meaningful mins like Lias did w/Zib, Kreider, Panarin, etc.
Instead they continued with that foolish bs of trying to make playoffs last season instead of dealing Buch earlier which would have gotten more and would have freed up even more mins for Krav w/top Fs."

It was a clarification that was required b'c you did not admit the core premise which is that he did not get any substantial level of mins with the top guys incl the 3 I identified, unlike Lias.

In the earlier quote you selected, I specifically said "worst of all, unlike that effin scumbag Lias Andersson, did not get top 2 lines opportunity."

You chose to ignore that, which is fine, but then you misrpresented context as you went on.

So much for falsely representing moving goalposts

 

[bernmeister]

oh how very erudite



not

we all saw where Krav played
many of us had hopes he would get real top mins w/real top Fs.

you indicating laughter does not change the fact you are wrong.

thus
I have the last laugh ... on you