KCC
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- Aug 15, 2007
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I actually echoed the same thing on the main board a few days back myself. Great minds think alike.
Todd McLellan - Opinions so far
- Thread starter guymez
- Start date
I actually echoed the same thing on the main board a few days back myself. Great minds think alike.
Frank the Tank
The Godfather
I remember when Darryl Sutter was the problem with the Sharks. Three finals (2004, 2012, and 2014) and two Cups with the Kings and now it appears he wasn't the problem in San Jose.
The Sharks still have to beat one of Ducks/Preds along with one of Hawks/Blues/Stars before they have made it anywhere they haven't before.
The Sharks still have to beat one of Ducks/Preds along with one of Hawks/Blues/Stars before they have made it anywhere they haven't before.
Under McLellan, the Sharks never made the cup final. His last year they miss the playoffs, Jumbo Joe looked like Liam Reddox, and they played with no heart.
This year, the Sharks are in form to make the cup final, Jumbo Joe has had a huge resurgence, having the most avg pts/game of any player in the 2nd half of the season, and they're defensive play has improved by many levels.
Perhaps they let go of Todd for reason? In the worlds last year, Peter Deboer was the assistant coach, got zero credit for the gold medal. Perhaps he was the actual puppet master? Maybe the Oilers made a huge mistake in letting go of Todd Nelson? (who had a 13 game win streak this season in the AHL, going 22-1 in that span).
Yakupov requests a trade, he didn't even do that under Eakins.
Justin Schutlz has his absolute worse year and got traded.
Hall says 'it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, i'm not gonna lie"
Darnell Nurse was always a dominant force and an MVP d-man wherever he played. This year he was one of the worst defensive players on the team. Everyone loves his toughness, brass, and huge potential, but is that potential going to get tapped by this coach?
Everyone is saying how lucky we are to have todd, an experienced playoff coach that is just so perfect for this team.
29th place is not lucky, and I wouldn't be surprised if fans start the Fire Todd song mid-season 2016-17
I love hearing Todd talk, he's real, and is the definition of accountability. But I do not agree that he is the coach to bring us to the promised land. I think we made a HUGE mistake in not hiring Todd Nelson
This year, the Sharks are in form to make the cup final, Jumbo Joe has had a huge resurgence, having the most avg pts/game of any player in the 2nd half of the season, and they're defensive play has improved by many levels.
Perhaps they let go of Todd for reason? In the worlds last year, Peter Deboer was the assistant coach, got zero credit for the gold medal. Perhaps he was the actual puppet master? Maybe the Oilers made a huge mistake in letting go of Todd Nelson? (who had a 13 game win streak this season in the AHL, going 22-1 in that span).
Yakupov requests a trade, he didn't even do that under Eakins.
Justin Schutlz has his absolute worse year and got traded.
Hall says 'it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, i'm not gonna lie"
Darnell Nurse was always a dominant force and an MVP d-man wherever he played. This year he was one of the worst defensive players on the team. Everyone loves his toughness, brass, and huge potential, but is that potential going to get tapped by this coach?
Everyone is saying how lucky we are to have todd, an experienced playoff coach that is just so perfect for this team.
29th place is not lucky, and I wouldn't be surprised if fans start the Fire Todd song mid-season 2016-17
I love hearing Todd talk, he's real, and is the definition of accountability. But I do not agree that he is the coach to bring us to the promised land. I think we made a HUGE mistake in not hiring Todd Nelson
PBandJ
If it didn't happen in the 80's, it didn't happen
^This. This, this, this, this, THIS!
Once again, just because a new coach rocks and the former coach struggles in Year 1, there's no guarantee to say that things will go on like that forever.
Also, before anyone starts praising DeBoer and trashing McLellan, let's keep in mind that:
- DeBoer was fired twice before going to San Jose, and even including 2015-16, his teams have been to the playoffs only TWICE in eight years.
- McLellan led the Sharks to three straight 100-point seasons, and was two wins away from a fourth straight.
Once again, just because a new coach rocks and the former coach struggles in Year 1, there's no guarantee to say that things will go on like that forever.
Also, before anyone starts praising DeBoer and trashing McLellan, let's keep in mind that:
- DeBoer was fired twice before going to San Jose, and even including 2015-16, his teams have been to the playoffs only TWICE in eight years.
- McLellan led the Sharks to three straight 100-point seasons, and was two wins away from a fourth straight.
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lmfao
Talk about a one sided missive on a coach and ironic given that McLellan himself was fired just last season.
Lets be clear here that Deboer brought a rag tag group of players all the way to the SC final in 2012 and that the Devils actually managed to take 2 games from the Kings in that series. That was a very ordinary team outmatched in every round that won the EC crown and pushed the SC champs more than any team had that year.
Fact of the matter is Deboer took at team that is worse on paper than any lineup McLellan has EVER coached in SJ and took it all the way. Much farther than McLellan had ever taken the Sharks.
That same Deboers now coached a SJ team that knocked the Kings out of the playoffs, something that has happened only once previously in the last half dozen years.
Deboers also has a playoff head coaching record of 19W 11L.
McLellans playoff headcoaching record is 30W 32L despite being behind the bench of a much better squad in SJ.
Finally, lets be clear that Deboers was "fired" as headcoach in NJ due to Lamoreillo failing to keep a competitive roster in NJ. NJ today continues to be one of the worst clubs in the league.
https://www.nhl.com/news/analysis-reasons-for-devils-firing-of-peter-deboer/c-745713
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PBandJ
If it didn't happen in the 80's, it didn't happen
Bingo.
But nah, I guess McLellan sucks cause he couldn't make chicken salad out of chicken **** and and we should have hired a guy who has never won anything as a coach instead.
McShogun99
Registered User
The Sharks have acquired Reimer, Polak, Spaling, Jones, Dilon, Martin, Ward and Zubrus since they fired Mcllelan. That's 40% of their starting roster replaced and upgraded while still keeping their core in Thornton, Pavelski, Couture, Burns and Vlaasic. None of these moves were major but they added depth and experience to the team.
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Take a look at who the Sharks had on D in 2014. That club had arguably the best lineup in the entire NHL and was being touted as SC worthy. Arguably a better lineup, and certainly as good on D, than this years version.
Add to this that Deboers is working with a core lineup that is two years older and with Thornton, Marleau well past peak age.
The difference is Deboers has the Sharks playing a better team game, and looking better on PP than McLellan's coaching staff did with the same team. Keeping in mind McLellan even missed the playoffs last year coaching SJ.
Also a bit odd for you to include Zubrus, age 37, and who hasn't played a minute of playoff action as a notable addition as well as Reimer who hasn't seen any playoff action and Spaling, Dilon, who one would need a program to tell who they are. These are fill players.
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-Yak did basically request a trade under Eakins. Larionov came down and cried about Yak's playing time and hinted at a trade.
-Nurse played 2 games and looked absolutely horrendous. Nurse's NHL game is not a product of his coach. How bout Davidson. He sure seemed to excell. Or Oesterle? Nurse couldn't even crack the team out of camp. The only reason he got called up was due injuries and lack of depth.
- Hall played his best hockey this year by far in a 200ft capacity.
-Justin Schultz real struggles started last year
-Todd Nelson? The same coach who saw the Oilers play the SJ Sharks and allowed 40+ shots on them. Nelson was a good coach, but unlike TM, the Oilers got embarrassed several times under him. At least TM's losses were mostly close.
You you know why JT was traded from Boston in a surprise move? Management finally admitted it was b/c he was not a player that they thought they can win a cup with. He disappeared in big games back in his Boston days also.
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No they didn't. Their D is MUCH better this year with Paul Martin. Burns is having his best year by far paired with him. They also have Ward who is a monster and Doonskoi who has been amazing, and Jones in net has been stellar. And yes, they are older, like Hertl who is more mature and also having his best year. This is obviously a better team than Todd had.
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Again take a look at the D SJ had in 2014 which I have cited twice before in this thread and I'm not doing a 3rd time. People can do their research. Fact of the matter is the 2014 SJ Sharks were considered a great team in every regard and with no holes. That team was touted by many to be a SC contender. Conversely NOBODY expected much from this years Sharks club after missing the playoffs last year under McLellan and the year before losing 4 games in arrow to the LA KInGS and being outscored 18-5 in those games in one of the most pathetic folds ever seen, under McLellan.
Conversely Deboers Sharks absolutely owned the Kings in the first round series and never even remotely looked to have taken their foot off the Kings throats. Interestingly Deboers playoff coaching record now against one of the best playoff clubs in hockey is 7W 5L. No other head coach has a winning playoff record against the LA Kings over the last half dozen years.
But I can see where this is headed. The Sharks could win the cup this year under Deboers, in his first incumbent year there, rightly casting suspicion on what McLellan managed all those years with an allstar lineup, yet the usual comments here will be "it means nothing".
I find it very interesting that the best Sharks team play in the playoffs I've ever seen has been under Deboers.
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McShogun99
Registered User
Having Reimer, Zubrus, Spaling and Dilon is better depth then Broisoit, Gazdic, Nikitin. Not to mention that the team is built for the West. TM lost the room which happens when a coach has been with a team to long, they needed a change. Out of every coach available I believe that TM was the best fit for the Oilers.
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I said I wasn't going to do this as I'm just wasting my time in that people ignore this every time.
This is the Sharks D in 2014;
Brent Burns
Marc-Edouard Vlasic
Dan Boyle
Brad Stuart
Scott Hannan
Justin Braun
Jason Demers
Matt Irwin
Your counter to that is the Sharks this season have Zubrus who hasn't played one minute of playoff action.
jebus I would take that 2014D corps over this one any day of the week.
I'd say management expected much. That's why they signed Martin and Ward. You don't have to cite the d from 2 years ago, cuz it ain't as good as this years d, not by a long shot. Martin is defensive beast. He was Letang's defensive conscience for years, and now he plays the 2nd line.
Also splitting up Burns and Vlasic has payed off big time. Vlasic is also having his best offensive year. Not being a Burns anchor and allowing him contribute offensively looks to be paying off.
"It's a natural fit for Martin, who played much of the best hockey of his Penguins career as the defensive conscience for Kris Letang, another talented offensive defenseman. In the more than 1300 5-on-5 minutes those two shared the ice for over the past five years, Pittsburgh controlled 56.6% of shot attempts and scored 62.3% of the goals. What makes Martin such an ideal fit for Burns, at least on paper, is that he brings a lot more to the table from a puck-moving standpoint than players like Douglas Murray, Brad Stuart or even Marc-Edouard Vlasic, all of whom have been penciled in as potential Burns partners in the past.
A good chunk of Burns' defensive struggles in his first season back on the blueline this past year stemmed from his inability to regularly complete seemingly simple tape-to-tape breakout passes. According to Corey Sznajder's All Three Zones tracking project, with Pittsburgh in the 2013-14 season Martin was able to successfully exit the defensive zone while retaining possession of the puck via pass or carry on 26.5% of his attempts to, turning it over just 5.5% of the time. Both percentages are nearly identical to what Dan Boyle, an elite puck-mover, managed that season with the Sharks. More than just being reliable in his own zone, Martin is a partner Burns can send the puck to when hounded by forecheckers and expect a clean breakout."
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Well, whatever, the Sharks were considered favorites to win the SC in 2014 and nobody was critiquing their solid D lineup.
No oddsmaker or expert had the current Sharks club doing much this season. Sharks were not even expected this year to get out of division. They have already done that.
btw way when you state ridiculous things like the bolded its hard to take any of it seriously. Sharks still have Burns and Vlasic, the two top D on the squad, and formerly had solid D support in Boyle, Hannan, Stuart etal.
The difference is this years strict adherence to system play under Deboers who is a better defensive tactician, and playoff coach than McLellan ever was.
GA takes commitment from everybody, no matter who you have back on D, in anycase.
I doubt you would even argue Deboers has this Sharks club playing better 200ft system hockey
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^ Why the hate for McLellan? I get that he's not perfect by any stretch...but I'll take four straight 100 point seasons over a guy who up until San Jose was in charge of some pretty mediocre teams.
No they weren't. They played the Kings in the first round
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2030168-complete-predictions-for-the-2014-stanley-cup-playoffs/page/9
https://www.nhl.com/news/2014-15-expert-predictions-cup-to-remain-in-west/c-733261
That's just the first 2 that googled up. Nobody had the Sharks as a favorite
Take me seriously?? That's hilarious. Did you see that quote I gave you? That was written in the off season. BEFORE Deboers coached the team. It was a prediction by a measly sports writer on how Burns would play with Martin, and low and behold Burns has a Norris season. But here you are crediting the coach for this sudden success.
I'm not the one being ridiculous here
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Nobody hey? This is the first hit that came up on that 2014 club;
https://www.nhl.com/news/why-the-sharks-will-win-the-stanley-cup/c-713773
Must be my imagination. Plus that entire season the Sharks were considered SC contenders.
We must use different google..
Obviously it depends on your search terms. If you googles Sharks will not win SC in 2014 (which I suspect you did) you will get negative results. If you google Sharks WILL win cup in 2014 theres supportive results.
But in anycase your statement that;
"Nobody had the Sharks as a favorite"
Is quite clearly erroneous.
btw, laughably your 2nd quote is referring to the 2014-15 season, that being the year the Sharks missed the playoffs entirely. So hint, of course they were not SC favorites that year.
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GMofOilers
Registered User
DeBoer for some reason always has a good first season with a team, then the team goes downhill from there.
Lets wait to see how he coaches the Sharks next year, cause the trend isnt good with Deboer.
Lets wait to see how he coaches the Sharks next year, cause the trend isnt good with Deboer.
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What quote are you referring to? "That quote that I gave you" is a pretty vague comment given theres been several exchanges so far.
ftr I don't disagree that separating Burns and Vlasic is a good idea and that probably furthers pairing depth but McLellan was a headcoach that at times failed to even envision that Burns best use was as a defender.
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if his first seasons are SC finalist seasons really I would pick that over any of the dreck we have had.
just saying
I mean well with this.
jk aside Deboers has been the headcoach of not the best lineups either. In saying that I feel that he could've got more out of Florida but theres ALWAYS been problems with that org as well and they were just a developing team at that time on par with the Oilers.
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