To what degree, if any, do we miss Leino?

[jBuds]

Just curious. Insignificant? A little? A lot? At whose expense would he fit in? Is it at all a difference, really, in your mind?

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[thefifagod]

I think losing Leino is hurting this team a great deal. He's one of the best players on the team in regards to puck possession, the main reason (lack thereof) why this team is terrible. His injury has changed the whole complexity of the team; everyone was assuming a Leino-Grigerenko-Ott third line for the start of the season and who knows how that line would have done?

 

[zenthusiast]

Extremely

 

[joshjull]

I think losing Leino is hurting this team a great deal. He's one of the best players on the team in regards to puck possession, the main reason (lack thereof) why this team is terrible. His injury has changed the whole complexity of the team; everyone was assuming a Leino-Grigerenko-Ott third line for the start of the season and who knows how that line would have done?

I think they miss him but you're overstating it a bit.

 

[msm29]

It really depends on how good a healthy Leino would've been this year.

Remember how much Ruff and the media talked about the Leino-Grigorenko-Ott line before the year. Hypothetically, we were supposed to go into the year with three scoring lines, and even though we won our first two games, if that line had worked and been productive it might've taken some pressure off FES after their slow start.

Who knows? Maybe a healthy Leino would've helped get Grigs going and built some confidence. He certainly wouldn't have helped mask our terrible defense, but one thing that Leino is very good at is puck possession along the wall, and maybe that keeps us from spending so much time in our own zone.

It's unfortunate that we'll never know. My best guess, though, with the way this year has gone, would be that it wouldn't of changed much.

Still, the ability to roll three scoring lines was key to the Sabres getting hot after trading Gaustad last season, and a healthy Leino prevents The Vortex of Offense that is Jochen Hecht from seeing any scoring line time early this year. It couldn't of hurt.

 

[jBuds]

I hated him last year. He held onto the puck far too long. But with the frequency with which we turn the puck over this year? I'm at the point of shooting cortisone in his hip myself...

 

[thefifagod]

I think they miss him but you're overstating it a bit.

I mean, the line could have been a failure and it wouldn't make much of a difference, we don't really know. I didn't mean to suggest that it was guaranteed to succeed or that he is the only reason why we are where we are; that's not the case. His presence would have made it easier to go to the more balanced three line approach that you mentioned a few days ago. Regardless, I think it is fair to say that, at the least, the team really misses his puck possession, even if he doesn't do much with it.

 

[joshjull]

I mean, the line could have been a failure and it wouldn't make much of a difference, we don't really know. I didn't mean to suggest that it was guaranteed to succeed or that he is the only reason why we are where we are; that's not the case. His presence would have made it easier to go to the more balanced three line approach that you mentioned a few days ago. Regardless, I think it is fair to say that, at the least, the team really misses his puck possession, even if he doesn't do much with it.

I agree.

I also think they miss Tropp. Those two being out injured completely changed the look of this team.


We ended last season with this top 9.

Leino/Roy/Pommer ---> two way line that handled the heavy lifting defensively
Tropp/Hodgson/Vanek
Foligno/Ennis/Stafford

The Hodgson and Ennis lines were essentially 2/3 lines. Neither was truly a clear cut top 6 line nor had to handle much defensive work. Its a big reason why they thrived.

This year I thought we were going to see Leino at center with Ott/Pommer as his wingers resuming the role that line had the year before. It would have kept essentially the same top 9 setup from the year before.

But once Tropp/Leino were out of the mix we suddenly had some holes to fill. In desperation they kept Grigs up and re-signed Hecht. Two things unlikely to happen with those two health.

 

[jBuds]

I agree.

I also think they miss Tropp. Those two being out injured completely changed the look of this team.


We ended last season with this top 9.

Leino/Roy/Pommer ---> two way line that handled the heavy lifting defensively
Tropp/Hodgson/Vanek
Foligno/Ennis/Stafford

The Hodgson and Ennis lines were essentially 2/3 lines. Neither was truly a clear cut top 6 line. Its abit reason for why they thrived.

This year I thought we were going to see Leino at center with Ott/Pommer as his wingers resuming the role that line had the year before. It would have kept essentially the same top 9 setup from the year before.

But once Tropp/Leino were out of the mix we suddenly had some holes to fill. In desperation they kept Grigs up and re-signed Hecht. Two things unlikely to happen with thsoe two healthy.

Interesting.........

 

[joshjull]

Interesting.........

They may have still re-signed Hecht but they certainly weren't going to do both moves if those two were healthy. There wouldn't be room on the roster.

It also cuts down on the likelyhood of 8 dmen which means Brennan would have likely been waived. Again because of roster spots

 

[jBuds]

They may have still re-signed Hecht but they certainly weren't going to do both moves if those two were healthy. There wouldn't be room on the roster.

It also cuts down on the likelyhood of 8 dmen which means Brennan would have likely been waived. Again because of roster spots

No, no, I think you unearthed something there that, frankly, I hadn't pieced together or contemplated. Very interesting.

 

[thefifagod]

I agree.

I also think they miss Tropp. Those two being out injured completely changed the look of this team.


We ended last season with this top 9.

Leino/Roy/Pommer ---> two way line that handled the heavy lifting defensively
Tropp/Hodgson/Vanek
Foligno/Ennis/Stafford

The Hodgson and Ennis lines were essentially 2/3 lines. Neither was truly a clear cut top 6 line nor had to handle much defensive work. Its a big reason why they thrived.

This year I thought we were going to see Leino at center with Ott/Pommer as his wingers resuming the role that line had the year before. It would have kept essentially the same top 9 setup from the year before.

But once Tropp/Leino were out of the mix we suddenly had some holes to fill. In desperation they kept Grigs up and re-signed Hecht. Two things unlikely to happen with thsoe two health.

Yeah, he's rarely been mentioned but losing Tropp is also hurting the team for the obvious reason we know. The last two sentences are an interesting point that are more than likely true. If there was no lockout, then certainly Grigs and Hecht wouldn't have been on the team; both factors are key in that decision.

 

[Beerz]

I think if Leino came back... Gerbe would be the odd man out.

 

[Squantosawuss]

Apparently absence really does make the heart grow fonder....and the memory grow cloudier.

Last season, all people did was complain about what an underachiever Leino turned out to be. Now he's the key to success! LOL.

It reminds me of the clamoring for this or that Rochester player to finally come up and save the day...only to have a lackluster performance and a short honeymoon with the Sabre faithful.

I have no reason to believe that Leino will be anything but yet another misplaced/mismatched cog on a dysfunctional team.

 

[DeadGhost]

Just a different kind of mediocre.

 

[kirby11]

They'd be better, but not a whole lot better. I think we'd just be below average or slightly worse than that (around 10th or 12th) rather than being a bottom feeder. I agree that they miss the heck out of Tropp, too. He'd be an upgrade to scott or gerbe, IMO, if they'd kept grigs up and played him with leino and ott and put tropp on the 4th line. Or they could roll with lines similar to the ones they had last year, as someone already mentioned I think.

 

[Clock]

Leino is an interesting wildcard on an otherwise unexciting team. My expectations would be low, but seeing what a well-rested Leino could do post-injury and now being more acclimated to the team would at least be interesting to watch.

 

[brian_griffin]

As joshjull noted, having both Leino and Tropp out (both of whom I am sure figured in this year's plans) does change the makeup of the team from a lines standpoint, and puck posession / grit in the corners, even if they are not superstar talents. So, I think he is on to something there.

However, I will counter that the presence of either player or both this season would not have altered the "system" nor improved the ineffective play of Myers, the disappointing play of Leopold, the regression of Sulzer after last year's surprise, the speed of Regehr, nor made Brennan a legit NHL-caliber defenseman.

 

[stokes84]

Considering we are getting virtually no offense from all but 4 forwards, we miss him a lot more than I thought. The third line is a sinkhole. Our 2nd line wings have combined for 2 goals. Just getting another forward who can possess the puck in the offensive zone would be huge.

 

[Montag DP]

I think we miss the Leino that management hoped we were getting when he was signed.

Oh yeah, and also the good versions of Stafford, Foligno, Gerbe, Myers, etc.

 

[Moskau]

everyone was assuming a Leino-Grigerenko-Ott third line for the start of the season and who knows how that line would have done?

Probably very little. It would have lasted a few games more than likely.

It sucks that he isn't playing and it slides the lines around but the team is fundamentally flawed with or without him.

 

[moltenlava26]

I don't think he would have played any differently under ruff. A few bad games and Hecht would have taken his ice time. I still think he and enroth will be the buyout candidates next year. Great point on Tropp. I really liked him last year!

 

[moltenlava26]

Lack of a true 3rd line defensive center has really hurt this team as well. I wonder what the impact would have been if Arnott was signed instead of Hecht?

 

[jfb392]

I don't think he would have played any differently under ruff. A few bad games and Hecht would have taken his ice time. I still think he and enroth will be the buyout candidates next year. Great point on Tropp. I really liked him last year!

Can't buyout a player that's not under contract..

 

[joshjull]

Lack of a true 3rd line defensive center has really hurt this team as well. I wonder what the impact would have been if Arnott was signed instead of Hecht?

Arnott isn't a defensive center and has been unable to sign with anyone due to not being able to pass a physical.