Post-Game Talk: Tipped Off | Oilers lose series 3-1

[iCanada]

Those 2 went to retrieve pucks for Drai. It's too bad the guy bungled the puck more often than not when he had it. No one is telling him to do no look passes and carry the puck through players. Trying to absolve Drai for his underwhelming and disappointing performance is why the team keeps being stuck in mediocrity. We know he can be better. He just wasn't bringing it at the worst time.

I would suggest you watch again, but I also wouldn't blame you if you didn't. But that entire line only got things done when Drai won a puck battle t,m often while being double teamed, then made a great pass. This includes the Ennis goal in game 2, as well as the two Drai scored in game 3.

Often times if Drai wasn't winning battles in the corner, Yams or Ennis would just cough it up.

I would agree that perhaps Drai made a few errant passes, but I would suggest that a large part of one's ability to pass is requisite on his line mates being in an open spot with a passing lane, and again both Ennis and Yamms are kind of Rovers that constantly hound pucks in the offensive zone that don't have strong puck support instincts. This is a large part of what made RNH so good on this line, he's fantastic at creating passing lanes to recieve pucks while he's on offense. It makes what's otherwise a bit of a disfunctional match between Drai and Yams work because he's always there to recieve a pass and get his line mates out of trouble. This bridges that gap between Drai and Yams remarkably and makes the unit as a three man group just a knack for maintaining pressure and creating quality chances.

 

[Samus44]

At least on defense, the Oilers will need to make changes. If you have Klefbom, Nurse and Larsson as part of your top 4, you're screwed. 2 of the 3 need to be swapped out. Hell, I'd argue 4 of the 6 D corps need to be spruced up

Those changes are really expensive. I'd argue they just need to let the group grow, everyone short of perhaps Larsson still has upside. Klefbom is probably a finished product too. But the reality is it's about roles and the Oilers have guys developing into them. Jones, Bear, Nurse are all improving. Broberg, Bouchard, Samorukov give us three very good prospects who could be huge going forward. We've got a shutdown pair that should only get better in Nurse and Bear, we've got a PP guy in Klefbom, we've got a physical shutdown guy in Larsson, a young puck mover in Jones, a solid two way young vet in Benning. We may be lacking that true #1, and that is the biggest hole for sure, but I don't see how they can afford it. It's not Tippett or Hollands fault that Chiarelli created a mess. The Oilers need to let the D grow and use the guys who are already strong, not perfect, NHL D to insulate them and prevent them from drowning. This was a playoff team, i don't care what anyone says about play ins they were a lock when the season paused, not a lottery team.

They took huge steps this year and there's no reason to think they can't take another next year. Benson and Bouchard may be this years Yamamoto and Bear, two key young players who step in and help us because they've been developed properly. Heck Kharia, Nygard, Haas, and even Athanasiou in his short time grew and can probably be expected to be better next season. Puljujarvi may of even refound his groove in Europe. Jones, Bear, Yamamoto likely will be better. Neal, Chiasson, Russell, Kassian, and Archibald probably aren't getting better, and a couple might get worse, but those guys aren't all that old, even Neal isn't THAT old, and they aren't that important. It's still mostly up arrows for this crew.

We all know a true #1 D, a 3C, and at least one more scoring winger would be huge for this group but every team has holes. When it comes to filling these needs it's very possible that we can do so other than the #1 D, of which we have plenty of prospects and depth to offset. Patience is needed and very much rational IMO.

 

[frag2]

we don’t need sweeping changes. We need more of what he did last offseason. Small moves that move the needle in the right direction.

We absolutely need a top pairing Dman, but that is unlikely to happen, so if he can move some salary out and bring in a top 4 Dman that allows us to shelter Bouchard in the bottom pair next year, find a RH third line Center, and maybe someone who could potentially play with Mcdavid next season, that’d be a huge win of an offseason imo.

Goaltending at this point is Koskinen and whatever goalie we can convince to sign for league minimum.

Next season we should be a lock for the playoffs with just a few moves.

That said, I believe this D core is by far our biggest issue, and despite me assuming there won’t be any major moves, I’d love to see massive changes on the back end.

At least replace them with dman that can skate and have some semblance of hockey IQ. That's all I ask.

Hell, we couldn't have done any worse last night if we just put Bouchard in. At least the guy can make a pass. It seemed like last night, our strategy for breakouts from the backend was simply hail mary long bomb 'passes' out the zone.

 

[3IR]

At least replace them with dman that can skate and have some semblance of hockey IQ. That's all I ask.

Hell, we couldn't have done any worse last night if we just put Bouchard in. At least the guy can make a pass. It seemed like last night, our strategy for breakouts from the backend was simply hail mary long bomb 'passes' out the zone.

Yeah. I have zero faith in this Dcore. The only ones I want around are Bear and Jones because they’re cheap and haven’t been around long enough to pin any of this crap on them.

 

[McJadeddog]

The bolded is scary, because its true. Being a team means you can trust other players, you can trust levels of coverage, you can trust others to adjust to mistakes. Bear can't be blown up on that play and end up on the wrong side of goal and puck. He lost not only the puck, he lost position, and he was on his ass. Those 3 can't happen to a D in the waning moments of a deciding game. Bear will be thinking about that for a longtime. and scoring in his own net for the winning goal in prior game. The only part of your post I would disagree with is 50.50 puck. Bear completely had sole possession of the puck when the sequence started. Nothing 50/50 about it, and Toews made it 100/0 anyway.

While I agree that Bear had a lot of bad moments in this series, the larger problem is the fact that the team had to rely on a raw rookie to play such large minutes, because we didn't have another dman that could. The Larsson injury hurt us quite a bit in this series as well if we're being honest with ourselves. Sure, he isn't great, but he and Nurse are the only 2 defenders we have that can semi-consistently win puck battles.

 

[McDNicks17]

Glad to see the media is already making excuses for the organization when they do nothing in the offseason.

"Holland is way better than Chia and can do no wrong."

"Don't expect Holland to do his job or he might pull a Chia."

Classic Edmonton media.

 

[3IR]

While I agree that Bear had a lot of bad moments in this series, the larger problem is the fact that the team had to rely on a raw rookie to play such large minutes, because we didn't have another dman that could. The Larsson injury hurt us quite a bit in this series as well if we're being honest with ourselves. Sure, he isn't great, but he and Nurse are the only 2 defenders we have that can semi-consistently win puck battles.

Yep.

a rookie Dman having a bad series shouldn’t sink you as a team. That blame goes to Nurse, Klefbom, Larsson, and the rest of the “top 4” dmen.

 

[Llamamoto]

While I agree that Bear had a lot of bad moments in this series, the larger problem is the fact that the team had to rely on a raw rookie to play such large minutes, because we didn't have another dman that could. The Larsson injury hurt us quite a bit in this series as well if we're being honest with ourselves. Sure, he isn't great, but he and Nurse are the only 2 defenders we have that can semi-consistently win puck battles.

Klefbom, Nurse, and Bear are all good defensemen, but they're all in over their heads. If we had a true #1 defensemen, each of their responsibilities + TOI would be bumped down.

Klefbom - XXX
Nurse - Bear

If we had a way to get a star defensemen, a guy like Pietrangelo, Doughty (who I think is getting underrated due to his bad play on a bad team), Josi, etc, that would be a more than solid D-core.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

"Holland is way better than Chia and can do no wrong."

"Don't expect Holland to do his job or he might pull a Chia."

Classic Edmonton media.

They don’t want their passes revoked so they gotta play nice with management.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

How other teams' players block shots from the blue line:



How the Oilers players block shots from the blueline (watch from 00:25):



Not to mention the numerous goals where they got a stick and only a stick in the lane and scored on themselves.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I seriously wonder if all the players and especially those up for contracts have a financial incentive to let the other teams win.

Vis a vis....the cap structure and escrow etc.

Every year...no matter the coach or players its the same story.

 

[frag2]

Those changes are really expensive. I'd argue they just need to let the group grow, everyone short of perhaps Larsson still has upside. Klefbom is probably a finished product too. But the reality is Klefbom is it's about roles and the Oilers have guys developing into them. Jones, Bear, Nurse are all improving. Broberg, Bouchard, Samorukov give us three very good prospects who could be huge going forward. We've got a shutdown pair that should only get better in Nurse and Bear, we've got a PP guy in Klefbom, we've got a physical shutdown guy in Larsson, a young puck mover in Jones, a solid two way young vet in Benning. We may be lacking that true #1, and that is the biggest hole for sure, but I don't see how they can afford it. It's not Tippett or Hollands fault that Chiarelli created a mess. The Oilers need to let the D grow and use the guys who are already strong, not perfect, NHL D to insulate them and prevent them from drowning. This was a playoff team, i don't care what anyone says about play ins they were a lock when the season paused, not a lottery team.

They took huge steps this year and there's no reason to think they can't take another next year. Benson and Bouchard may be this years Yamamoto and Bear, two key young players who step in and help us because they've been developed properly. Heck Kharia, Nygard, Haas, and even Athanasiou in his short time grew and can probably be expected to be better next season. Puljujarvi may of even refound his groove in Europe. Jones, Bear, Yamamoto likely will be better. Neal, Chiasson, Russell, Kassian, and Archibald probably aren't getting better, and a couple might get worse, but those guys aren't all that old, even Neal isn't THAT old, and they aren't that important. It's still mostly up arrows for this crew.

We all know a true #1 D, a 3C, and at least one more scoring winger would be huge for this group but every team has holes. When it comes to filling these needs it's very possible that we can do so other than the #1 D, of which we have plenty of prospects and depth to offset. Patience is needed and very much rational IMO.

This rationalizing is why our D is stuck in mediocrity.
Klefbom is slow and soft AF. He logs mins but its not always quality play. And he's injury prone. Only saving grace is his low AAV

Nurse is low IQ and surprisingly, his skating isn't that much better than Klef's now. And for all that reputation for being a tough guy, it's no different than Laraque. Tough guy on paper but when on ice, it really doesn't amount to anything. He gets rubbed out by players like Cagiulla FFS. Coupled with his horrible spatial awareness and what he'll likely demand after his 5.xM contract, I dont know whats the point of keeping him.

Bear is the only D I'll give time simply because he's a rookie and showed potential. Likewise Jones albeit in a 4-6 role.

Our D is shit until we can get a 1D to shove them all down a rung.

 

[Drivesaitl]

While I agree that Bear had a lot of bad moments in this series, the larger problem is the fact that the team had to rely on a raw rookie to play such large minutes, because we didn't have another dman that could. The Larsson injury hurt us quite a bit in this series as well if we're being honest with ourselves. Sure, he isn't great, but he and Nurse are the only 2 defenders we have that can semi-consistently win puck battles.

Oh I don't disagree at all. I stated last night that the org fail is that Bear and Nurse were even required to be the top pair as this series went along. Bear has been fast tracked way too much, but by an org cognizant of how bare the shelf really is.

I will say this, and its a rare statement, given the abject unphysicality of the Oilers D in general, Benning should have seen more toi. But how bad is your D when only Russel was sometimes looking even competent.

The spot I would put on bear is he was doing none of the break out things, or puck moves, or authority carrying the puck that he displayed initially. he played nervous, and not to make mistakes, and thus made lots of them. Not blaming, completely understandable. its why most teams would not rely on a newbie D to carry the club.

 

[Aerchon]

I think everyone is overreacting about our defense.

Even Cassie Campbell could see how our forwards were missing assignments in the D zone.

For the players it was a bad series but as a whole. McDavid was repeatedly called out for his poor play during the games on live television... despite scoring almost 3 points a game. That should tell you how bad he was. McDavid typically walks on water no matter how bad his defensive play has grown over the last couple years.

If you want to crap on the D you have to crap on our forwards as well. McDrai included. McDavids 5v5 goals differential is atrocious and it is a result of how HE plays and cheats.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I think everyone is overreacting about our defense.

Even Cassie Campbell could see how our forwards were missing assignments in the D zone.

For the players it was a bad series but as a whole. McDavid was repeatedly called out for his poor play during the games on live television... despite scoring almost 3 points a game. That should tell you how bad he was. McDavid typically walks on water no matter how bad his defensive play has grown over the last couple years.

If you want to crap on the D you have to crap on our forwards as well. McDrai included. McDavids 5v5 goals differential is atrocious and it is a result of how HE plays and cheats.

Even putting aside how rotten the defense is at defending, they provide next to no offense either.

 

[frag2]

Even putting aside how rotten the defense is at defending, they provide next to no offense either.

Russell scored 3x IIRC [or was it twice?]....into our own net

 

[McDNicks17]

I think everyone is overreacting about our defense.

Even Cassie Campbell could see how our forwards were missing assignments in the D zone.

For the players it was a bad series but as a whole. McDavid was repeatedly called out for his poor play during the games on live television... despite scoring almost 3 points a game. That should tell you how bad he was. McDavid typically walks on water no matter how bad his defensive play has grown over the last couple years.

If you want to crap on the D you have to crap on our forwards as well. McDrai included. McDavids 5v5 goals differential is atrocious and it is a result of how HE plays and cheats.

It was definitely a combination of the two.

Just look at how many goals were scored off wingers not blocking shooting lanes from the point while the center isn't anywhere near their man in the high slot who is tipping them in.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

why do we need "sweeping changes" again? based on a 4-game sample size?
gimme a break

did people forget this team was poised to have home-ice advantage if not for the pause? we can't a small sample undue all the good of the season
yes I'm angry and they need some upgrades but lets not sell the farm here

 

[Samus44]

This rationalizing is why our D is stuck in mediocrity.
Klefbom is slow and soft AF. He logs mins but its not always quality play. And he's injury prone. Only saving grace is his low AAV

Nurse is low IQ and surprisingly, his skating isn't that much better than Klef's now. And for all that reputation for being a tough guy, it's no different than Laraque. Tough guy on paper but when on ice, it really doesn't amount to anything. He gets rubbed out by players like Cagiulla FFS. Coupled with his horrible spatial awareness and what he'll likely demand after his 5.xM contract, I dont know whats the point of keeping him.

Bear is the only D I'll give time simply because he's a rookie and showed potential. Likewise Jones albeit in a 4-6 role.

Our D is shit until we can get a 1D to shove them all down a rung.

If you think Nurse is a bad skater I don't think you can be said to be all that rational. Again I agree we need a true #1 but we can get by with guys filling roles. Nurse and Bear had us in contention to win the division as our shutdown pair and both have only been getting better. Our special teams are elite. Klefbom and whoever his partner is on the 2nd pairing do need to improve, obviously a Pieterangelo next to him would be ideal and give us an all purpose 1st pair, but as of now our best bet is to wait for development or for a good, not a panic, trade to become avaliable. I see the team's D needing to be this

Klefbom - #1/2D = All purpose top pair
Nurse - Bear = Shutdown pair
Jones - Larsson = Strong 3rd pair
(Russell, Benning, Lagesson, Bouchard, ect...)

but as of now we can survive with Klefbom anchoring a 2nd unit and Nurse-Bear being a shut down pair. Our 3rd pair is really strong, with or without Russell, and that does help mitigate not having a #1 (not as much in the playoffs sadly). This is why they need to let a guy develop into the guy they need for an all purpose top 4 pair and a shutdown pair. We have the horses we need on special teams and that's huge. If we dump all the young capable top 4 D we have the young guys will drown trying to establish themselves much like Schultz before.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Russell scored 3x IIRC [or was it twice?]....into our own net

How many times this year did we deflect pucks into our own net?

 

[Ritchie Valens]

why do we need "sweeping changes" again? based on a 4-game sample size?
gimme a break

did people forget this team was poised to have home-ice advantage if not for the pause? we can't a small sample undue all the good of the season
yes I'm angry and they need some upgrades but lets not sell the farm here

I think Leavins reads HFOil.

 

[McJadeddog]

Glad to see the media is already making excuses for the organization when they do nothing in the offseason.

Except that Leavins is right. Making changes for the sake of making changes isn't what is needed. I'm usually one of the fans to scream from the rooftops "this team is terrible, trade everybody!". But the reality this year is different, and with the flat cap, and our current cap situation, we just can't do that. I actually think (for the first time in a long time) that barring a disastrous injury scenario, we should be a pretty safe playoff team next year. We need tinkering with the lineup and 1 big move (to get a real top-pairing dman). We don't need 3-5 big moves.

Honestly, if we could somehow trade Russel and Neal to free up enough cap to sign Piets, that would likely solve most of our problems. I don't think for a single second that we could do that, I'm just showing how close I think we are to being a good team.

 

[McDNicks17]

Except that Leavins is right. Making changes for the sake of making changes isn't what is needed. I'm usually one of the fans to scream from the rooftops "this team is terrible, trade everybody!". But the reality this year is different, and with the flat cap, and our current cap situation, we just can't do that. I actually think (for the first time in a long time) that barring a disastrous injury scenario, we should be a pretty safe playoff team next year. We need tinkering with the lineup and 1 big move (to get a real top-pairing dman). We don't need 3-5 big moves.

Honestly, if we could somehow trade Russel and Neal to free up enough cap to sign Piets, that would likely solve most of our problems. I don't think for a single second that we could do that, I'm just showing how close I think we are to being a good team.

When 85% of your team sucks, you aren't making changes for the sake of making changes.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I think Leavins reads HFOil.

I mean I'm not wrong

 

[McJadeddog]

Klefbom, Nurse, and Bear are all good defensemen, but they're all in over their heads. If we had a true #1 defensemen, each of their responsibilities + TOI would be bumped down.

Klefbom - XXX
Nurse - Bear

If we had a way to get a star defensemen, a guy like Pietrangelo, Doughty (who I think is getting underrated due to his bad play on a bad team), Josi, etc, that would be a more than solid D-core.

Agree 100%. It really is amazing what having 1 legit top-pairing guy can do for a team. In fact just look at Chicago for a great example of that. Their d just outplayed ours, and outside of Keith, I don't think they have a single player as good as Nurse or Klefbom is. Larsson is easily a top-3 guy on that team as well probably as well. But they have Keith, who plays for 25-26 mins/night and you know mostly good things are happening during those minutes.

If we could get Pietrangelo, I think we'd all be amazed at how much better Klef, Nurse and Bear all looked all of a sudden. Remember how good MAB looked playing with Pronger? Again, that isn't realistic, but it shows just how important it is to have that kind of player.