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Tribute Timothy Liljegren Part 3 - Everyone wants Flowers.

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Maplebeasts said:
So I was looking into some stats and Liljegren is actually having a crazy rookie season where the only reason he's not a Calder threat is a lack of ice time and no powerplay opportunities. He leads all Leafs defensemen in expected goals for percentage, actual goals for percentage, corsi%, fenwick%, assists/60, points/60, is 10% points clear of any other dman in terms of xGf% paired with Rielly and is the only defenseman in the NHL to feature on 3 of the NHL's top 20 D pairings by xGf% at 5 on 5 with a minimum of 100 minutes played together. He might actually be a good top pairing guy already if he had more minutes and powerplay opportunities.
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It's pretty hilarious that instead of this rookie being gushed over like he would be in any other city - in this town the only time his name comes up is to criticize him and say he needs to be out of the lineup.

Just nutso.
 
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No offense to Rielly but with Gio we finally have something closer to McAvoy having Chara in his first year. Only up from here for Lil now that the pairing issue of offsetting natural growing pains has been solved.
 
Maplebeasts said:
So I was looking into some stats and Liljegren is actually having a crazy rookie season where the only reason he's not a Calder threat is a lack of ice time and no powerplay opportunities. He leads all Leafs defensemen in expected goals for percentage, actual goals for percentage, corsi%, fenwick%, assists/60, points/60, is 10% points clear of any other dman in terms of xGf% paired with Rielly and is the only defenseman in the NHL to feature on 3 of the NHL's top 20 D pairings by xGf% at 5 on 5 with a minimum of 100 minutes played together. He might actually be a good top pairing guy already if he had more minutes and powerplay opportunities.
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(Don't tell Detroit fans we have two better rookies than both of theirs)
 
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zeke said:
Eh.....Seider is doing that in much tougher usage in a much bigger role with much less support.....love Lilly but what Seider is doing is pretty special.
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I'm aware, but we've seen what Liljegren has done in tough comp as well as the 'depth' his minutes come out as, and he doesn't miss a beat. He gets Rielly to a level we've never seen out of him and he's only really struggled with Muzzin's corpse.

I'm not saying he's going to be a better player, but Liljegren's ahead in GSVA, GAR, xGAR. He's having a legitimate ROY-type season if he got PP & more time at 5v5.
 
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Morgs said:
I'm aware, but we've seen what Liljegren has done in tough comp as well as the 'depth' his minutes come out as, and he doesn't miss a beat. He gets Rielly to a level we've never seen out of him and he's only really struggled with Muzzin's corpse.

I'm not saying he's going to be a better player, but Liljegren's ahead in GSVA, GAR, xGAR. He's having a legitimate ROY-type season if he got PP & more time at 5v5.
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I've learned to be very careful projecting a dman in bottom pair usage. It's led to most of analytics biggest mistakes.

The good news on Lilly is that he's handling his initial chances at top 4 duty very, very well.
 
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zeke said:
I've learned to be very careful projecting a dman in bottom pair usage. It's led to most of analytics biggest mistakes.

The good news on Lilly is that he's handling his initial chances at top 4 duty very, very well.
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Agreed. I learned especially with Dermott that it doesn't always translate to an increased workload/role, but there are 100's of guys you could say the same about, Colin Miller being another off the top of my head.

No matter where he plays, each guy's numbers get better than with anyone else. As his biggest fan I always thought his absolute ceiling was a #2, but man he's showing legitimate #1 upside in a SSS as a rookie.
 
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Morgs said:
Agreed. I learned especially with Dermott that it doesn't always translate to an increased workload/role, but there are 100's of guys you could say the same about, Colin Miller being another off the top of my head.

No matter where he plays, each guy's numbers get better than with anyone else. As his biggest fan I always thought his absolute ceiling was a #2, but man he's showing legitimate #1 upside in a SSS as a rookie.
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Don't worry once it's contract time the media will hype him up to make us pay more like always lol
 
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Doublerum1975 said:
The Toronto media trying to drive up our players value i really don't understand why i need to explain this don't try and turn this into a dubas thing
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It doesn't really make any sense but you don't have to explain anything if you don't wish.
 
zeke said:
Eh.....Seider is doing that in much tougher usage in a much bigger role with much less support.....love Lilly but what Seider is doing is pretty special.
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Yup.

I think Lilly is going to be really solid... top 4 ... maybe top 2 on a solid pairing eventually.

Seider is already very noticeable though and in a good way. He's looking like a number 1 D in the next few years.
 
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ACC1224 said:
It doesn't really make any sense but you don't have to explain anything if you don't wish.
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I think it makes sense. Take Jack when he was kicking ass earlier in the season, our media could hardly contain themselves with their hand-wringing about his next contract and how much he’d cost. Same happened to Hyman last year too.

That doesn’t mean Dubas will overpay on players or that he’ll be influenced, but it’s definitely a thing that happens.
 
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Doublerum1975 said:
The Toronto media trying to drive up our players value i really don't understand why i need to explain this don't try and turn this into a dubas thing
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It's always funny to see the ways people deny the obvious, eh?

Obviously, media hype has a large effect on perceived value across all leagues, and since market price is determined by what everybody is willing to bid, not just what you are willing to bid, media hype can have a huge impact on a player's contract demands and his eventual market value.

This is so obvious and prevalent that you wonder why certain posters would rather make themselves look utterly oblivious or biased rather than just acknowledge the obvious.
 
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OneSniffTwoSniff said:
If Holl Plays over Lilly in the playoffs i will go mental!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I don’t think you should go mental, I think Holl has looked way better along side Brodie.

If they go to a Gio - Brodie pairing, I rather have Holl in the line up. If they have Gio on the third pairing I rather have Liljegren in the line up.

I don’t think you can really go wrong with either. Holl has more playoff experience and actually played very well the last playoff (despite having a bad regular season this year) and he makes fewer turnovers. He gets caught out of position a whole lot and is slower but he doesn’t turn over the puck as much. Liljegren brings a good transition game, awesome first pass, huge blast from the point, sometimes out of position and will turn over the puck.

I think for me between Holl and Liljegren, whoever it is, I wouldn’t want them playing over 15 mins in the playoffs. Sheltered minutes, favourable starts, put them in a position to succeed and help the team win. We saw what happened last year when you give young defenseman too much freedom.
 
Jimmy Firecracker said:
I think it makes sense. Take Jack when he was kicking ass earlier in the season, our media could hardly contain themselves with their hand-wringing about his next contract and how much he’d cost. Same happened to Hyman last year too.

That doesn’t mean Dubas will overpay on players or that he’ll be influenced, but it’s definitely a thing that happens.
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Sounds like you're agreeing with me. Players are paid by their comparables both internally and around the league not by a Steve Simmons (or whoevers) column. That's absurd.
 
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Morgs said:
View attachment 521647

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(Don't tell Detroit fans we have two better rookies than both of theirs)
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I'm as big a fan of Liljegren as anyone else in here but for Seider oh man I'd make that trade 10 times outta 10.

I love love love big RH Dmen with a cannon slapper and who crushes guys with checks just for fun.

Seider reminds me of Rob Blake or Shea Weber. I'd probably trade anyone on our team for him other than Matthews obv
 
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