Tribute Timothy Liljegren Part 3 - Everyone wants Flowers.

[BrannigansLaw]

NO MORE HOLL.

Liljegren makes him look like an AHLer

 

[Nylander88]

Lilly needs to stay in. What a stud he's developed into with the opportunity. Never understood why management kept a #17 overall pick behind a #28 overall pick (Sandin), when Liljegren is a year older/drafted earlier. That's not a knock on Sandin, I think he's an NHLer for sure, just Lilly never really got a chance. Now that he's been given a true opportunity to get his NHL legs under him, he's turning heads. Trade Holl in the off-season, let Lyubushkin walk, re-sign Gio to a 1 year, hometown sweetheart deal, and ice;
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
Giordano-Sandin

Sandman is going to need to learn his off-side and become an upgraded Dermott in that sense

 

[saffronleaf]

Lilly needs to stay in. What a stud he's developed into with the opportunity. Never understood why management kept a #17 overall pick behind a #28 overall pick (Sandin), when Liljegren is a year older/drafted earlier. That's not a knock on Sandin, I think he's an NHLer for sure, just Lilly never really got a chance. Now that he's been given a true opportunity to get his NHL legs under him, he's turning heads. Trade Holl in the off-season, let Lyubushkin walk, re-sign Gio to a 1 year, hometown sweetheart deal, and ice;
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
Giordano-Sandin

Sandman is going to need to learn his off-side and become an upgraded Dermott in that sense

wouldn't mind somehow keeping lyub though. always need some competition and depth for injuries too. but not sure about price tag. plus he's got an edge to his game that many other dmen on the team don't.

 

[TMLAM34]

If Liljegren was rushed earlier into the NHL, maybe he doesn’t develop into the defenceman he’s now developing into with multiple years of AHL experience. I’m sure this management group knew what they were doing and maybe being patient is finally paying off with Liljegren. People get a little lost at times with Liljegren’s pre draft expectations when he was projected into a top 5 pick before getting sick and falling to us.

 

[Nylander88]

wouldn't mind somehow keeping lyub though. always need some competition and depth for injuries too. but not sure about price tag. plus he's got an edge to his game that many other dmen on the team don't.

Agreed totally. Having Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin, Holl, Sandin, Liljegren all already returning next season....I figured you unload Holl and then it comes down to Giordano or Lyubushkin...in said case I take the likely cheaper, better all around, defenceman in Gio. But the way Muzzin gets hurt these days, Lyubushkin would be well worth it at 1.5mil or less

 

[Stephen]

Re: Holl vs Liljegren, my big issue with Holl is he's been programmed to think he's an Alex Pietrangelo level defenseman who can join the rush and play a 200 foot game when we probably just want him to keep it simple, use his wing span and don't get too crazy. The amount of quasi rover stuff we see from him just doesn't seem to make sense when he doesn't have the offensive skillset to be activated on the offense so often.

With Liljegren, he doesn't have Holl's ideal wingspan and reach as a defenseman but he's a much more natural transition and offensive defenseman who can actually make things happen offensively. So for me it just comes down to the coaching staff being able to utilize both so we can get the most juice out of both but not have them playing outside of their strengths too much.

 

[saffronleaf]

Re: Holl vs Liljegren, my big issue with Holl is he's been programmed to think he's an Alex Pietrangelo level defenseman who can join the rush and play a 200 foot game when we probably just want him to keep it simple, use his wing span and don't get too crazy. The amount of quasi rover stuff we see from him just doesn't seem to make sense when he doesn't have the offensive skillset to be activated on the offense so often.

With Liljegren, he doesn't have Holl's ideal wingspan and reach as a defenseman but he's a much more natural transition and offensive defenseman who can actually make things happen offensively. So for me it just comes down to the coaching staff being able to utilize both so we can get the most juice out of both but not have them playing outside of their strengths too much.

re: holl it's also losing puck battles.

just feels like every time holl gets into a situation where the opponent is coming down on him in the d zone, too often it results in a turnover. doesn't seem to happen to other dmen nearly as much, but they don't often get themselves into that situation to begin with.

 

[Maple Leaf]

dubas protected holl in the draft so he needs to keep in there so

 

[Griffin76]

Not sure how anyone can advocate for Holl over Lyubushkin, let alone Liljegren.

I counted 4 or 5 times last night where a bad Justin Holl play resulted in a turnover or 50/50 puck that was soon followed by negative pressure for a good 30-60 seconds. You can’t have one player doing that to your team and putting them in a bad spot for extended periods of time.

Liljegren looked like a star in comparison.

I agree. The problem is that Holl is lucky enough that his turnovers don't end up in the back of the net. Somebody manages to get it out eventually. Nothing to do with him whatsoever. But the stats show that he did well. Liljegren had a small bad spell where everything ended up in the back of the net. Lucky vs unlucky.

 

[Stephen]

re: holl it's also losing puck battles.

just feels like every time holl gets into a situation where the opponent is coming down on him in the d zone, too often it results in a turnover. doesn't seem to happen to other dmen nearly as much, but they don't often get themselves into that situation to begin with.

Does it also seem like he's playing very nonchalant at developing rushes sometimes? It's a regular occurrence where he thinks everything is under control only to realize the opposition has a step on him and then he wakes up and scrambles.

 

[stickty111]

Was looking forward to the Leafs Report today after Liljegren's game yesterday.
Mirtle was praising Liljegren and said that might have been his best game in the NHL. Jonas than made an embarassing comment "I don't think we would say that if he didn't score". Mirtle then responded and pointed the great things he did in the game. Jonas back tracks and says "no credit to him".

Mirtle mentions the fanbase wants Holl sat for Liljegren or Lyb. Says Holl doesn't pass the eye test but his numbers are good. Jonas asks why people are down on Holl because he believes he's been good in the 2nd half. Mirtle says it's because of the decisions he makes in game. He talks about the higglight reel plays Liljegren has made like the 3 line pass, and says his reads are on another level than they ever have been. Jonas throws the praise back at Mirtle's face and says "those all become flash points. He says in his notes he has some moments where he says what decision was Liljegren making there". I'm like yes Jonas we believe you that you are picking apart every minor mistake he makes much like 3 or 4 others in the media.

Of course Jonas then in reference to Liljegren said take his numbers in context. Funny how this context talk only became relevent when Liljegren posted those.

I'm a Jonas supporter but looks like he has joined the Hayes, Bourne, Carlo thought process on Liljegren. Credit to Mirtle, he has actually changed his opinion on Liljegren, but Jonas nope

 

[IPS]

Liljegren is legit the 2nd best RD on this team but the media is still under the belief that hes this borderline nhl'er whos lucky to have good partners on D.

Why do these nitwits feel their opinions need to be respected when they don't know anything about the Leafs

 

[justloveleafs]

I probably could find out, but I just don't poke around Leafland any more. But I suspect, if I know anything about Swedes, that Sandin, giraffe, Lilly, Willy are all great friends. Swedes, Canadians, yanks, and Aussies are fiercely loyal people. Trust me on this one, found out the hard way, once, bout Aussies.

fight one, fight them all at once.

Lived with two aussies in florida and a scotsman.

He couldn't believe the beat up I experienced when

I doubed something aussie lol.

I can laugh now about it.

Anyways....Liljegren? Larry Robinson junior. And I got to watch Larry twice a week long time ago. What a player that guy was. Heck, he could still play, now, I swear. Be better than Holl I imagine zeke.

 

[TheDoldrums]

It shouldn't be Lilly vs Holl, it should be Boosh vs Holl. And its not as clear an answer as most people seem to think imo.

I hear you about Holl losing puck battles. I raise you Boosh being completely unable to gap up players on rush chances. He was pathetic defending Tage Thompson on one goal last game. This is an area Holl is actually good at, using his reach to take away space on the rush.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

wouldn't mind somehow keeping lyub though. always need some competition and depth for injuries too. but not sure about price tag. plus he's got an edge to his game that many other dmen on the team don't.

Here here

 

[zeke]

It shouldn't be Lilly vs Holl, it should be Boosh vs Holl. And its not as clear an answer as most people seem to think imo.

I hear you about Holl losing puck battles. I raise you Boosh being completely unable to gap up players on rush chances. He was pathetic defending Tage Thompson on one goal last game. This is an area Holl is actually good at, using his reach to take away space on the rush.

Boosh is safer in terms of scoring chances against but generally the team is on its heels when he's out there.

Holl actually makes plays out there and the team is generally moving forward when he's out there but this also results in more mistakes and chances against.

With our defense we're good enough that this decision shouldn't be a backbreaker either way and I can see the argument for Boosh even though imo he's clearly the lesser player, especially since the D is so good otherwise that we can really limit Boosh to very strict usage where he can thrive in.

And tbh it's almost worth it to play Boosh just to hear the fans stop complaining about Holl.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Tonight we are playing our best D configuration in my opinion so we will see how we look against a seasoned playoff team in Caps .. Holl is out .. Gio and Lily playing together and I expect they will get load of minutes

 

[Future]

It shouldn't be Lilly vs Holl, it should be Boosh vs Holl. And its not as clear an answer as most people seem to think imo.

I hear you about Holl losing puck battles. I raise you Boosh being completely unable to gap up players on rush chances. He was pathetic defending Tage Thompson on one goal last game. This is an area Holl is actually good at, using his reach to take away space on the rush.

Yes but Lyubushkin is much better at defending around the net, more physical, and a much better skater. I’d rather have that skillset in the lineup because everyone else can do what Holl does.

I also think some of the skepticism regarding Liljegren is related to his contract expiring. Only explanation I can see. Get him locked up cheap while he’s underrated before inflating his value.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Yes but Lyubushkin is much better at defending around the net, more physical, and a much better skater. I’d rather have that skillset in the lineup because everyone else can do what Holl does.

I also think some of the skepticism regarding Liljegren is related to his contract expiring. Only explanation I can see. Get him locked up cheap while he’s underrated before inflating his value.

Maybe Boosh is a better skater but that doesn't translate to him actually winning his minutes more than Holl does. I don't like Holl either but Lyubushkin straight up has worse results. Worse Gf and xGf%, has ZERO puck skills or passing ability, has terrible results on the pk, etc. If we're going solely off of merit, when Sandin gets back it should be Boosh and Muzzin sitting.

 

[mydnyte]

re: holl it's also losing puck battles.

just feels like every time holl gets into a situation where the opponent is coming down on him in the d zone, too often it results in a turnover. doesn't seem to happen to other dmen nearly as much, but they don't often get themselves into that situation to begin with.

Holl has a bad tendency in his own zone, as soon as someone gets close to him he tries to tie up the puck against the boards, and then 9 out of 10 times, loses the board battle and the puck.

 

[stickty111]

When Kyper makes better points than you, you need to work on evaluations. Bourne again the leader of the Holl fan club. Kyper even thinks Liljegren is better defensively.

 

[crump]

I probably could find out, but I just don't poke around Leafland any more. But I suspect, if I know anything about Swedes, that Sandin, giraffe, Lilly, Willy are all great friends. Swedes, Canadians, yanks, and Aussies are fiercely loyal people. Trust me on this one, found out the hard way, once, bout Aussies.

fight one, fight them all at once.

Lived with two aussies in florida and a scotsman.

He couldn't believe the beat up I experienced when

I doubed something aussie lol.

I can laugh now about it.

Anyways....Liljegren? Larry Robinson junior. And I got to watch Larry twice a week long time ago. What a player that guy was. Heck, he could still play, now, I swear. Be better than Holl I imagine zeke.

Robinson eh? Heady praise. 1/2 Robinson would be awesome Maybe it’s the height differences but I see more Guy Lapointe in Liljegren. One can dream.

 

[supermann_98]

Brodie has kind of had the shit end of the stick the last two months. They kind of thrown him out there with so many partners and he’s not great on his natural side. But there’s no doubt Brodie is the best Right Side defender we have when he’s deployed there.

The good thing is we have options now. It’ll be interesting to see what they do once Muzzin and Sandin are healthy.

It’s a nice feeling to know we have Sandin and Liljegren as the future.

Not to mention Niemela, who should also be a regular in a couple years

 

[supermann_98]

Sandin is the better PP player. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy.

How can you say that without hardly ever seeing Liljegren run the PP? Sandin, Muzzin, and Holl ALL get preferential treatment and first dibs on the PP2.

Now that Gio is on the team and Keefe puts Gio and Liljegren on PP2 ... what happens? Liljegren starts rifling one timers starts scoring goals.

Also regarding Sandin, part of the PP is not turning it over at the blue line and ankle-skating back while the opposition forward glides in for a 15 ft breakaway, something he hasn't figured out yet.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Lilly needs to stay in. What a stud he's developed into with the opportunity. Never understood why management kept a #17 overall pick behind a #28 overall pick (Sandin), when Liljegren is a year older/drafted earlier. That's not a knock on Sandin, I think he's an NHLer for sure, just Lilly never really got a chance. Now that he's been given a true opportunity to get his NHL legs under him, he's turning heads. Trade Holl in the off-season, let Lyubushkin walk, re-sign Gio to a 1 year, hometown sweetheart deal, and ice;
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
Giordano-Sandin

Sandman is going to need to learn his off-side and become an upgraded Dermott in that sense

For the most part, Sandin was getting more opportunities because of injuries to guys on the left side, while the right side was mostly healthy.