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Tribute Timothy Liljegren Part 3 - Everyone wants Flowers.

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Lybushkin played 13 minutes tonight. Makes me believe he'll be our 7th man and will sit out.

I imagine the pairings come play-offs will be the following:

Rielly - Brodie
Gio - Liljegren
Muzzin - Holl

Extra: Sandin-Lybushkin


I know we need physicality in the playoffs - but I really can't see Lybush with any of our d-man pairings. He needs a mobile dman - and he just can't play with Rielly on the top pairing. He's a good #5/#6 guy and expecting him to play top is just not it. Gio/Muzzin are too immobile as well to put him with them and i think the experiment with gio tonight just shows thats not gonna work.

Alternatively I would like to see the following before season ends:

Rielly - Liljegren
Gio - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl



NOTE TO KEEFE: PLEASE STOP PLAYING BRODIE ON LD - THANKS
 
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Honestly, Keefe doesn’t have an easy job with the pairings. It’s pretty clear that our strongest top 4 would be:

Rielly - Brodie
Gio - Lily

However, that leaves one of these as the bottom pairing:

Muzzin - Holl
Muzzin - Boosh
Muzzin - Sandin
Sandin - Holl
Sandin - Boosh

Muzzin - Holl has been good in the past, but they’ve been garbage this year. Don’t see Muzzin - Boosh working. Honestly, Sandin - Holl might be our best pairing, once Sandin gets back. However, that means we’re not playing either of our most physical dmen (Muzzin and Boosh), which could be a mistake in the playoffs, where physicality gains a tonne more importance.

We could also compromise on the ideal top 4, and go with something like:

Rielly - Brodie
Gio - Holl
Muzzin - Lily

That might be the best lineup, but Gio and Lily play so well together, would be a bit of a shame to break them up.
 
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Keefe needs to implement a system where if you are the 6th best D-man on a given night, you don't play the next one, regardless of who it is.

Holds everyone accountable and we can win with any mix of these 7 guys.

Sitting Liljegren while other pairs let the goals pile up does none of that.
 
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Not sure why Holl is getting “veteran consideration”.

The guy sat an entire season under Babcock and didn’t crack the lineup until Keefe came along.

Guy has less than 2 seasons of full time NHL action under his belt yet people acted like he’s some kind of grizzled veteran.

Liljegren should be a lock in our lineup, with Boosh and Holl battling to stay in the lineup. Boosh is more playoff battle ready than Holl.
 
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francis246 said:
LOL… a bit of a stretch. He ain’t better than Giordano, Brodie or Muzzin. He isn’t the difference between us winning and losing a series (it’s kind of laughable that anyone would suggest that) But I do agree he should be playing every game of the playoffs. Holl is just brutal to watch out there.

Rielly - Boosh
Muzzin - Brodie
Gio - Liljegren

3 balanced pairs.
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Wow. Well done. Other than parts of the first 2 sentences, this is the most incredible thing I've ever read of your posts.

boom-mind-blown.gif
 
Morgs said:
Do we know that for sure? Obv Liljegren's sample size is too small to take anything from it, but if played the same minutes as Sandin are you certain the results wouldn't be better?
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I'm not certain about much in life aside from death and taxes. I certainly saw Sandin succeed at running the PP with Sweden while he was winning awards at the World Juniors. I think Sandin has better passing and offensive instincts in the o-zone, he thrives in situations where his skating isn't as big of an issue. I think Liljegren makes better breakout passes from the d-zone.

I don't like how some Liljegren fans feel the need to take shots at Sandin. I like them both. Sandin has always been considered the better offensive prospect by neutrals so maybe its not a Dubas conspiracy to give him PP time.
 
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TheDoldrums said:
I'm not certain about much in life aside from death and taxes. I certainly saw Sandin succeed at running the PP with Sweden while he was winning awards at the World Juniors. I think Sandin has better passing and offensive instincts in the o-zone, he thrives in situations where his skating isn't as big of an issue. I think Liljegren makes better breakout passes from the d-zone.

I don't like how some Liljegren fans feel the need to take shots at Sandin. I like them both. Sandin has always been considered the better offensive prospect by neutrals so maybe its not a Dubas conspiracy to give him PP time.
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Are the coaches no longer responsible for the power play personnel?
 
TheDoldrums said:
I'm not certain about much in life aside from death and taxes. I certainly saw Sandin succeed at running the PP with Sweden while he was winning awards at the World Juniors. I think Sandin has better passing and offensive instincts in the o-zone, he thrives in situations where his skating isn't as big of an issue. I think Liljegren makes better breakout passes from the d-zone.

I don't like how some Liljegren fans feel the need to take shots at Sandin. I like them both. Sandin has always been considered the better offensive prospect by neutrals so maybe its not a Dubas conspiracy to give him PP time.
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As far as offence goes, I think Liljegren stretches the ice better and thrives off of rush/broken down plays while Sandin is more cerebral with his play and excels in situations where he can slow everything down
 
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Not sure how anyone can advocate for Holl over Lyubushkin, let alone Liljegren.

I counted 4 or 5 times last night where a bad Justin Holl play resulted in a turnover or 50/50 puck that was soon followed by negative pressure for a good 30-60 seconds. You can’t have one player doing that to your team and putting them in a bad spot for extended periods of time.

Liljegren looked like a star in comparison.
 
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Future said:
Not sure how anyone can advocate for Holl over Lyubushkin, let alone Liljegren.

I counted 4 or 5 times last night where a bad Justin Holl play resulted in a turnover or 50/50 puck that was soon followed by negative pressure for a good 30-60 seconds. You can’t have one player doing that to your team and putting them in a bad spot for extended periods of time.

Liljegren looked like a star in comparison.
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These are eye test issues which don't get accounted for in advances stats models .. it is why I will wait for 20 years when stats become meaningful numbers for dmen .. but everyone sees da same issues who watches da games .. Holl can't skate or process at NHL level
 
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TheDoldrums said:
I'm not certain about much in life aside from death and taxes. I certainly saw Sandin succeed at running the PP with Sweden while he was winning awards at the World Juniors. I think Sandin has better passing and offensive instincts in the o-zone, he thrives in situations where his skating isn't as big of an issue. I think Liljegren makes better breakout passes from the d-zone.

I don't like how some Liljegren fans feel the need to take shots at Sandin. I like them both. Sandin has always been considered the better offensive prospect by neutrals so maybe its not a Dubas conspiracy to give him PP time.
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Yeah I don't like the shots at Sandin either, comparing them is fine, but there's no reason at all we need to be bashing one to bring up the other.

I do think that when we look at their history in the NHL though so far, Liljegren has proven that the offense is real. Not to mention he was a legit plus on the PP in the AHL similar to Sandin. Liljegren's sample size is way too small to take anything from it on the PP in the NHL but in the little he's played he looks like a legit plus player there too. I wouldn't be mad having him and Ras manning PP2 together as soon as next year and it's probably a disservice to him to not see whether or not he can handle and thrive in those minutes.
 
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Morgs said:
Yeah I don't like the shots at Sandin either, comparing them is fine, but there's no reason at all we need to be bashing one to bring up the other.

I do think that when we look at their history in the NHL though so far, Liljegren has proven that the offense is real. Not to mention he was a legit plus on the PP in the AHL similar to Sandin. Liljegren's sample size is way too small to take anything from it on the PP in the NHL but in the little he's played he looks like a legit plus player there too. I wouldn't be mad having him and Ras manning PP2 together as soon as next year and it's probably a disservice to him to not see whether or not he can handle and thrive in those minutes.
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Both are probably future PP guys. I think they bring a different skill set. Sandin does seem to have a bit more of a natural instinct when it comes to playing on the power play, joining the rush/cycle. He is very active in the offensive zone. Liljegren's first pass is probably the best on the team honestly. You just know he is going to get it out of the d zone and make a good first pass. Liljegren also can shoot from the point better.

I think if we look at the current make up of PP1, Sandin probably fits a bit more because he's slightly more dynamic when it comes to creating plays and being involved in that give and go action with Nylander, Marner, Matthews. That being said, that doesn't mean there isn't a place for Liljegren's skill set on the PP.
 
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Love the discussion in this thread.

Also, is the app auto-refreshing again? 🙄

Just lost my longer reply saying how I trust the FO with his development in this market.
 
leafan11 said:
Justin Bourne literally just said on the radio Liljegren scored yst and you don’t want him scoring . How is this guy paid to talk about hockey? Can someone please explain
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Just sour he doesn't work with the Leafs/Marlies anymore. Guy has been creeping towards the Button/Carlo tier for years and him keeping this stance is more evidence to the fact.
 
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Mickey Marner said:
Would like to see Liljegren given some solid minutes before the playoffs. Every year we lose a defenseman and if Brodie goes down it would be nice to know whether Liljegren can step up and play 22 minutes.
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I'd like to see us do this and take some heavy minutes away from Rielly/Brodie/Holl down the stretch to keep everyone fresh.

We should also be playing Tavares/Nylander closer to 20 for a few games and give the Matthews line a break headed into playoffs.
 
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LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
I'd like to see us do this and take some heavy minutes away from Rielly/Brodie/Holl down the stretch to keep everyone fresh.

We should also be playing Tavares/Nylander closer to 20 for a few games and give the Matthews line a break headed into playoffs.
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Agreed. I get that 50 goals and 100 points are fun targets to hit, but the focus should be on playoff preparation, not feeding Matthews at every opportunity. Staying healthy, getting everyone up to speed and earning home ice in round one should be the priorities.
 
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