Tribute Timothy Liljegren Part 3 - Everyone wants Flowers.

[Keep Sorokin Me Babe]

I probably respect Ferraro's opinion more than any hockey analyst out there and he has Liljegren over Holl

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I probably respect Ferraro's opinion more than any hockey analyst out there and he has Liljegren over Holl

Rielly-Brodie
Gio-Boosh
Muzzin-Liljegren

My objection is that Gio-Lilly shouldn’t be broken up. I’d rather have Rielly-Lybushkin and Muzzin-Brodie if those are the six.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Genuinely have no idea how he got a job as an analyst. My only memory of his career assuming I am remembering this correctly is when he took the near death marked skate to the neck when he played for the Leafs against who was it, Ottawa?

And this…

 

[Nylanderthal]

Carlo is always forever be known for one thing and one thing only

View attachment 527364

I should’ve scrolled farther down, literally the next post, lol. Kudos sir

 

[stickty111]

Rielly-Brodie
Gio-Boosh
Muzzin-Liljegren

My objection is that Gio-Lilly shouldn’t be broken up. I’d rather have Rielly-Lybushkin and Muzzin-Brodie if those are the six.

I probably respect Ferraro's opinion more than any hockey analyst out there and he has Liljegren over Holl

Good to see someone with knowledge. It was a bit cringe worthy on the last podcast listening to Mirtle and Jonas forcing Sandin to the right side as if in desperation to not have Liljegren playing.

 

[Leafsfan74]

If we keep Gio/Lily together, and I think we should, for the other pairings it seems our options are:

Option 1:
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl

Option 2:
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Boosh

Option 3:
Rielly - Boosh
Muzzin - Brodie

Personally, I like option 3 best. Any pairing that leaves Muzzin with another bigger, slower, less talented puck handling dman (Holl or Boosh) seems like a bad call. We end up with a pairing that’s just too slow and weak in transition.

IMO, the only sensible partners for Muzzin on the Leafs are Brodie and Lily. While Boosh is a weak-ish partner for Rielly, this option does leave us with 3 strong pairs overall, and I think that’s crucial. IMO it’s more important to have strong D all game long than 1 great pair and 1 weak pair - the weak pair will get lit up.

The other option is splitting up Gio/Lily, but I’d try to avoid that, they’ve been so good together.

If Lilly stays in, Option 3 makes most sense to me in terms of balance. Maybe a rotation down the stretch to determine the pairings?

My concern through all of this has always been playoff readiness. Playoff hockey is going to be different, it's critical that fans and management do not forget this.

You can hope for the best all you'd like (calling the rules by the books) but you had better fully expect the worse (it being the usual, no-call, interference heavy hockey) as it has been all my life.

Last playoffs, the one barometer I use is that Holl was a +5 I believe and Sandin -2 or 3 in far fewer minutes against the Habs. In short, playoffs brings added pressure and more motivated opposition offenses, coupled with the whistle being put away.

There is a yardstick in the regular season against these teams, but the game does and WILL change. Just think about last years Habs and how the Leafs dominated them, until the playoffs.

Teams will drive hard to the net and try to clog the crease, will a Lilly or Sandin be up to the challenge?

Young D can show poise and confidence, but the opposition isn't going to play nearly as nice in three weeks. Will they wrestle opposition players to the ground if entangled? Use their size and not quite fully developed strength to deny position? Will they take the body and stifle a teams cycle or entry?

That has been and continues to be my worry with so much rightfully earned praise for Lilly. You can bet the house that the playoffs is going to be a far different game.

Until shown otherwise, I will not be fooled that it won't be.

 

[stickty111]

If Lilly stays in, Option 3 makes most sense to me in terms of balance. Maybe a rotation down the stretch to determine the pairings?

My concern through all of this has always been playoff readiness. Playoff hockey is going to be different, it's critical that fans and management do not forget this.

You can hope for the best all you'd like (calling the rules by the books) but you had better fully expect the worse (it being the usual, no-call, interference heavy hockey) as it has been all my life.

Last playoffs, the one barometer I use is that Holl was a +5 I believe and Sandin -2 or 3 in far fewer minutes against the Habs. In short, playoffs brings added pressure and more motivated opposition offenses, coupled with the whistle being put away.

There is a yardstick in the regular season against these teams, but the game does and WILL change. Just think about last years Habs and how the Leafs dominated them, until the playoffs.

Teams will drive hard to the net and try to clog the crease, will a Lilly or Sandin be up to the challenge?

Young D can show poise and confidence, but the opposition isn't going to play nearly as nice in three weeks. Will they wrestle opposition players to the ground if entangled? Use their size and not quite fully developed strength to deny position? Will they take the body and stifle a teams cycle or entry?

That has been and continues to be my worry with so much rightfully earned praise for Lilly. You can bet the house that the playoffs is going to be a far different game.

Until shown otherwise, I will not be fooled that it won't be.

Thats fair. It's good we have options if they start to struggle.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Good to see someone with knowledge. It was a bit cringe worthy on the last podcast listening to Mirtle and Jonas forcing Sandin to the right side as if in desperation to not have Liljegren playing.

They’re still on about him? I thought after this past week they would’ve shut up about trying to force him out of the lineup. Bizarre when the worst mistakes on defence have been made by literally every other defenseman besides him.

 

[Morgs]

How does his pace keep getting better

 

[stickty111]

They’re still on about him? I thought after this past week they would’ve shut up about trying to force him out of the lineup. Bizarre when the worst mistakes on defence have been made by literally every other defenseman besides him.

They weren't really critcizing him, but Jonas mentioned there has been an inflation on Lilly's xGF% numbers. I'm like okay so when other d man have high numbers, nobody says anything. However now that Lilly has those numbers, it's an inflation?
Mirtle to his credit did say if Gio-Lilly continue to look, you might not want to break it up. Jonas than said you can't make a balanced D core if thats the case. I don't know what was so hard to figure out for Jonas.
Rielly-Lyb
Myzzin-Brodie
Gio-Lilly
Took 5 seconds

 

[weems]

They weren't really critcizing him, but Jonas mentioned there has been an inflation on Lilly's xGF% numbers. I'm like okay so when other d man have high numbers, nobody says anything. However now that Lilly has those numbers, it's an inflation?
Mirtle to his credit did say if Gio-Lilly continue to look, you might not want to break it up. Jonas than said you can't make a balanced D core if thats the case. I don't know what was so hard to figure out for Jonas.
Rielly-Lyb
Myzzin-Brodie
Gio-Lilly
Took 5 seconds

The problem with that is Muzzin's play is starting to become and has been quite concerning for some time now.

Willing to give him a few games back to catch up to the pace but he's looked extremely broken at many points this season and the defence was playing very well without him.

 

[stickty111]

The problem with that is Muzzin's play is starting to become and has been quite concerning for some time now.

Willing to give him a few games back to catch up to the pace but he's looked extremely broken at many points this season and the defence was playing very well without him.

That is true, but my thinking is Brodie can help carry that pairing..

 

[Morgs]

And this… View attachment 527562

Sums up both his playing and post-playing career nicely

 

[kb]

Sums up both his playing and post-playing career nicely

It works for any of his takes and his analysis.

 

[hockeynorth]

Liljegren is the 4th best dman on the team right now

 

[zeke]

Liljegren is the 4th best dman on the team right now

 

[LeafalCrusader]

If we keep Gio/Lily together, and I think we should, for the other pairings it seems our options are:

Option 1:
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl

Option 2:
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Boosh

Option 3:
Rielly - Boosh
Muzzin - Brodie

Personally, I like option 3 best. Any pairing that leaves Muzzin with another bigger, slower, less talented puck handling dman (Holl or Boosh) seems like a bad call. We end up with a pairing that’s just too slow and weak in transition.

IMO, the only sensible partners for Muzzin on the Leafs are Brodie and Lily. While Boosh is a weak-ish partner for Rielly, this option does leave us with 3 strong pairs overall, and I think that’s crucial. IMO it’s more important to have strong D all game long than 1 great pair and 1 weak pair - the weak pair will get lit up.

The other option is splitting up Gio/Lily, but I’d try to avoid that, they’ve been so good together.

Muzzin-Holl is a disaster and Muzzin Boosh won't be able to make a outlet pass. Option 3 is the best of the choices. To me there's 2 combo's I'd try to see how they look and both involve sitting Holl and keeping Lyubushkin with Rielly so I'm sure some will hate them.

Rielly Lyubushkin
Muzzin Brodie
Gio Liljegren

or

Rielly Lyubushkin
Gio Brodie
Muzzin Liljegren

1st makes the most sense to me. Keeps the Rielly-Boosh, Gio-Lilly pairings intact. 2nd is if Muzzin continues his downward play and really needs to be sheltered on the 3rd pairing (which he might if last game was any indication). I liked him and Lilly earlier in the year. Think they fit each other well.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Muzzin-Holl is a disaster and Muzzin Boosh won't be able to make a outlet pass. Option 3 is the best of the choices. To me there's 2 combo's I'd try to see how they look and both involve sitting Holl and keeping Lyubushkin with Rielly so I'm sure some will hate them.

Rielly Lyubushkin
Muzzin Brodie
Gio Liljegren

or

Rielly Lyubushkin
Gio Brodie
Muzzin Liljegren

1st makes the most sense to me. Keeps the Rielly-Boosh, Gio-Lilly pairings intact. 2nd is if Muzzin continues his downward play and really needs to be sheltered on the 3rd pairing (which he might if last game was any indication). I liked him and Lilly earlier in the year. Think they fit each other well.

I like the first option but I'd be curious to flip Lily and Boosh for a couple games to see if Liljegren has really grown or we're just seeing him do better with easier minutes and Gio anchoring him.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Rielly was holding him back. He good now

 

[IPS]

I like the first option but I'd be curious to flip Lily and Boosh for a couple games to see if Liljegren has really grown or we're just seeing him do better with easier minutes and Gio anchoring him.

You could do that without flipping the pairing. Give Rielly's pair the sheltered minutes and let Gio-liljegren and Muzzin-Brodie do the heavy lifting.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Carlo is always forever be known for one thing and one thing only

View attachment 527364

Lol this is amazing!

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

The problem with that is Muzzin's play is starting to become and has been quite concerning for some time now.

Willing to give him a few games back to catch up to the pace but he's looked extremely broken at many points this season and the defence was playing very well without him.

Let's hope it was just him playing through a nagging injury and not that he is actually declining fast.

 

[ACC1224]

Let's hope it was just him playing through a nagging injury and not that he is actually declining fast.

They should have eased him in Tough opponent for your first game back. Let him practice and give the upcoming games against the shitty Habs or Sabres.

Really poor coaching all around by Keefe here

 

[WTFMAN99]

They should have eased him in Tough opponent for your first game back. Let him practice and give the upcoming games against the shitty Habs or Sabres.

Really poor coaching all around by Keefe here

Or he should have not went back to Muzzin-Holl when the pair never gave you a reason to all season.

 

[Morgs]

Or he should have not went back to Muzzin-Holl when the pair never gave you a reason to all season.

Are people just so obsessed with Lyubushkin they make up things?

At 5v5 the Holl-Muzzin pair was absolutely not the issue, and were only on for one goal against. Not to mention they played less than any other "main pairing" so they absolutely were getting eased in.