Not super related to this thread, but what a bummer a couple of years ago Ovechkin getting 49 was. This would have been a super impressive record to have by himself.
My guess would be that 2 become a bit too common (both the number of player and those will not end up in the hall)Why 3?
Which would have put him in a select group of only 10 players to do such. He may also have taken the crown as the greatest power play goal scorer of all time, or at least second behind Ovechkin. Even now, his single-season total of 34 power play goals stands the test of time.Had Tim Kerr been luckier with injuries, stringing together 7 consecutive 50+ goal-scoring seasons seems entirely plausible for him. It is also more likely than not he'd reach 60 goals in both 1986 and 1987 had he played full regular seasons.
One 50 goal season has been done by 99 players, many of whom would never be thought of as hall of fame players.Why 3?
This does seem notable. But it is also worth noting that Gretzky was putting up goal totals like 92, 87, 73, 71 when his contemporaries were putting their 50 goal seasons.During Wayne Gretzky's first 15 seasons in the NHL, there were 101 50-goal seasons by other players.
During Alex Ovechkin's first 15 seasons in the NHL, there were 14 50-goal seasons by other players.
101 to 14.
Treating this threshold as if it is equivalent in both eras is not equitable.
I haven't seen a single poster here treating it as if it is equivalent in both eras....?Treating this threshold as if it is equivalent in both eras is not equitable.
I haven't seen a single poster here treating it as if it is equivalent in both eras....?
That being said, the difference in the accomplishment between 1980-1995 and 2006-2021 is not as big as the frequency of occurrence (114 to 14 or whatever) makes it sound.
I mean, a 50-goal scorer in 1987 was considered a super-elite goal scorer, just as a 50-goal scorer was considered super-elite in 2019.
But at the same time, it's not like a 60-goal season suddenly became the threshold of elite in the mid-1980s, either. In the entire decade of the 1980s, there were only nine 60-goal player-seasons that weren't by Gretzky himself or enabled by Gretzky (Kurri x 2, Nicholls x 1). There were only seven in total if we further take out Mario.
LeClair was quite a lot better than Kerr and Vaive, both of whom have zero chance of making the Hall. I think LeClair will likely be inducted. In addition to his years in Philly, he was a significant star for Team USA in best-on-best tournaments.
We can talk about the numbers, sure, but nobody is going to seriously use Hockey Reference's "adjusted stats" as an actual stat. They are wonky as hell.It seems to me the entire thread is based on that assumption, otherwise we'd be using hockey reference's adjusted stats (which are far more indicative than raw stats) or some other standard aside from raw stats.
They are in the same general category. As I said, in 1987 a 50-goal scorer was considered very elite. In 2019, a 50-goal scorer was considered very elite. See how it's the same category?You started your post by claiming nobody is treating them as equivalent and then you go on to claim they are in the same general category.
Perception often lags behind the reality of the times though. The same way a 50 goal season today is not quite as impressive as it was 10 years ago, although there are many people who still treat it as the same thing.We can talk about the numbers, sure, but nobody is going to seriously use Hockey Reference's "adjusted stats" as an actual stat. They are wonky as hell.
They are in the same general category. As I said, in 1987 a 50-goal scorer was considered very elite. In 2019, a 50-goal scorer was considered very elite. See how it's the same category?
Obviously, there have been periods of time in which 50-goal seasons were much rarer (notably DPE and c.2011 to 2018). But even in higher scoring periods, 50-goal seasons were 50-goal seasons. They were very impressive.
We can't just take numbers of 'X' occurring in different seasons and then conclude that it's that many times harder / easier across seasons / eras.
For example, in the first year I sort of followed the NHL (1986-87) there were five 50-goal scorers, topping out at 62 goals. A year ago (2022-23), there were five 50-goal scorers, topping out at 64. It is not logical to blindly conclude that it was 'easier' to score 64 goals in 2023 than in 1987.
To put it another way, if there were eight times more 50-goal scorers in one long era than another long era, it doesn't logically follow that a 50-goal season was eight times 'easier' or less impressive in the earlier era. If that was how it worked, then the standard for an elite goal scorer in the early/mid-1980s would have been 70 goals or something, and that was definitely not the case.
Anyway, I'm not talking about the numbers analysis; I'm talking about the popular perception at the time.
Most 50 Goal Seasons:
Mike Bossy - 9
Wayne Gretzky - 9
Alex Ovechkin - 9
Guy Lafleur - 6
Marcel Dionne - 6
Mario Lemieux - 6
Bobby Hull - 5
Brett Hull - 5
Pavel Bure - 5
Phil Esposito - 5
Steve Yzerman - 5
Jari Kurri - 4
Michel Goulet - 4
Tim Kerr - 4
Cam Neely - 3
Jaromir Jagr - 3
John LeClair - 3
Luc Robitaille - 3
Rick Vaive - 3
Teemu Selanne - 3
Leon Draisaitl - 3
21 players. 15 are already in the HOF. Another three are not eligible yet, but are locks (Jagr, Ovechkin, Draisaitl).
That leaves three players, Kerr, LeClair, and Vaive. I'd like to hear the argument against these player who are otherwise in extremely rarefied company.
Craig Janney? Neely, Hull, Tkachuk.Random fact: I believe Adam Oates is the only player to center three different 50 goal scorers.
Gretzky didn't center Messier, but he definitely centered Kurri, Anderson, and Robitaille to 50 goal seasons.Wayne-o wasn't responsible for Messier's 50 goal year? (plus Kurri and Anderson). @The Panther probably knows off the top of his head...
LeClair was quite a lot better than Kerr and Vaive, both of whom have zero chance of making the Hall. I think LeClair will likely be inducted. In addition to his years in Philly, he was a significant star for Team USA in best-on-best tournaments.
Super elite scoring would of been Bobby Hull in the 60’s.I haven't seen a single poster here treating it as if it is equivalent in both eras....?
That being said, the difference in the accomplishment between 1980-1995 and 2006-2021 is not as big as the frequency of occurrence (114 to 14 or whatever) makes it sound. I mean, a 50-goal scorer in 1987 was considered a super-elite goal scorer, just as a 50-goal scorer was considered super-elite in 2019.
Playing in the period 1997-98 through 2003-04, and playing in the period around 2009-10 through 2017-18 meant it was very, very difficult for even top scorers to accumulate 50+ in a single season, sure.
But at the same time, it's not like a 60-goal season suddenly became the threshold of elite in the mid-1980s, either. In the entire decade of the 1980s, there were only nine 60-goal player-seasons that weren't by Gretzky himself or enabled by Gretzky (Kurri x 2, Nicholls x 1). There were only seven in total if we further take out Mario.
I dunno, to me 50 goals is always the marker of super-elite as a goal-scorer, from 1971 or whatever to today. This of course doesn't mean that, in certain periods, a 42-goal scorer isn't super-elite also...