Thoughts On The Rangers Current Lineup

[Raspewtin]

I decided to give a piece on my thoughts on the Rangers' current lineup, what I think needs changing, what doesn't need changing, an what might need changing. Do you agree or disagree?

Current positions that don't need filling or tooling.

Top line LW - Chris Kreider
Second Line C - Derek Stepan
Third line LW - Carl Hagelin
#1 Defenseman - Ryan McDonagh
#1 Goalie - Henrik Lundqvist
Backup Goalie - Cam Talbot

Positions that have questions short term, or long term.

First line RW - Rick Nash
Second line RW - Mats Zuccarello
Third line RW - Ryan Callahan
Second pair LHD - Marc Staal
First pair RHD - Dan Girardi
Second pair RHD - Anton Stralman
The entire fourth line.

Positions that need definite filling.

First line center
Second line LW
Third line center
Third line RW
Bottom pair LHD and RHD.

Rick Nash - Marian Hossa. That's what he reminds me of. Nash has been very up and down this season, after carrying the Rangers all of last year, but got nothing done in the playoffs. He's exactly the kind of guy you want to drive the bus, but unfortunately he's a passenger. A very good complimentary piece, albeit at a very high cost, I'm not sure I believe Nash is the answer to the top line RW.

Mats Zuccarello - A player the Rangers need more of, not less. So why's he a question? He's still yet to complete a full season at the NHL level, and that's a question mark either way. He also doesn't have a contract for next year. If he can be brought back for under 4 million, he will be a worthy investment as one of the team's top playmakers.

Ryan Callahan - Simply put, he's too expensive for a third liner. That's not to say I think he's a third liner, but on this team that's what he is. He isn't offensively talented enough to justify the hefty price tag he will command, and his injuries are starting to become a real problem. I don't like the idea of giving him the type of contract he will command. I think he should be traded.

Marc Staal - Lately, Staal has been excellent. He played his best game of the year against the Blackhawks, which in itself is no small feat, and he's had a string of good games ever since. If he can stay at this high level, and stay healthy, I would like to retain him as long as he'll resign here.

Dan Girardi - I'm not a Girardi fan, at all, but he's really picked up his game since being horrendous to start the season. He looks more comfortable in AV's system, although still far from perfect. However, like Callahan, his likely contract demands have me spooked. He will easily command 5 million+ AAV on a likely long term contract, and I don't think he is a good enough player to warrant that money, being carried by good partners a lot of his career. He's a tremendous defenseman, but he's very much a complimentary piece. I think we are better off trading him to recoup some assets. It begs the question ZOMG WHO WILL REPLACE GIRARDIS MINUTES !!11!11!? But with the state of this roster and all the things wrong with it, that's not my concern. I have faith that we can find a good RHD to play with McDonagh (Byfuglien? )

Anton Stralman - Two months ago, I thought Anton Stralman was a must re-sign. Lately, I'm not so sure. He's good for what he is, a good puck moving defenseman who makes smart plays, and can play 17-20 minutes a night. But these past few games, he hasn't impressed me at all. With his great playoff performances recognized league wide, I think he will command a good contract in UFA. If his demands are reasonable (say 2 million per), I resign him, but he doesn't belong in the top 4.

The entire fourth line - I think our fourth line has been excellent this year. The problem is, none of them except Dorsett have contracts past this year. If it were up to me, I'd resign D. Moore for 3 more years at 2 mill per, and trade Boyle for a 2nd round pick. Boyle is great for what he is, but his size, PK prowess, and faceoff skills will jack up his market value. And with the ludicrous deal Boyd Gordon got last summer, I can definitely imagine Boyle getting 3 mill +, which I'm not willing to pay.

First Line Center - Ah, yes. The hardest position to fill in all of hockey. There's a great crop of centers available in this year's draft, but I highly doubt this team will suck enough to draft that high. If we could nab Sam Reinhart, Michael Dal Colle, or any of the others, I'd take that and run. But, the only way to nab a true #1 center is through the draft. So no Joe Thorntons or Paul Stastnys please.

Third Line Center - Definitely one of the most underrated positions in hockey. A good third line should be made up of two way players that are capable offensively and defensively. The third line on this team has no identity, at all. Though lately, Brassard's line has played great, so they deserve credit where it's due. However, I don't see their play continuing much longer, as we all know how enigmatic Brassard and Pouliot are. My candidate for 3C of the future is Oscar Lindberg, who I'm very high on. I think he can earn a spot out of camp this year.

Third Line RW - My ideal candidate for this spot would be Jesper Fast. A third line of Hagelin - Lindberg - Fast sounds like a great deal. There's forechecking, speed, defensive ability, and offense all on one multi dimensional line of super Swedes. Granted, this is if they make the NHL, which I believe getting them third line minutes puts them in positions to succeed.

Bottom pair LHD and RHD - MDZ and John Moore are not a bottom pair. A bottom pair should be reliable, smart players who keep their games simple. Preferably, they should have some physicality to their game as well. A great example of a good bottom pair is STL's pair of Barret Jackman and Roman Polak. Two simple, no nonsense defensive defensemen who keep their games short and sweet, engage when necessary, and are reliable. This team needs a pairing like that. I can see Ryan Graves evolving into a player like that if his development goes right. For the bottom pair RHD spot, someone similar would be preferable.

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[theFiGS]

Good post
Kreider - blank - Nash
Blank - stepan - zucc
Hagelin - brassard - Callahan
Carcillo - Moore - dorsett

This is how I see it, we really lack 2 top 6 players which hurts us as we saw last night we couldn't score a second goal. This teams been a lot better offensively so I'm not dogging them there but we definitely lack top end talent in the top 6. My suggestion to be a contender next year trade alittle of the farm for Perron or eberle and sign stastny for about 6.5 per.

 

[Inferno]

rangers really need a top line center to push everything back 1

they dont have one, and dont have one coming up in their system.

not sure what to do there.

 

[Vitto79]

Good post
Kreider - blank - Nash
Blank - stepan - zucc
Hagelin - brassard - Callahan
Carcillo - Moore - dorsett

This is how I see it, we really lack 2 top 6 players which hurts us as we saw last night we couldn't score a second goal. This teams been a lot better offensively so I'm not dogging them there but we definitely lack top end talent in the top 6. My suggestion to be a contender next year trade alittle of the farm for Perron or eberle and sign stastny for about 6.5 per.

Stastny this yr is solid but the last few not so much. Hes kind of a gamble IMO

also If they sign him then Brassard likely should be dealt as I see Miller as the 3rd line C next yr

 

[Kakko]

I'm quite happy with the current group of forwards. They don't really play like a 1st, 2nd and 3rd line. It seems that whoever is doing the best today is the 1st line.

I just hope Miller can jump in next season

 

[Idlerlee]

rangers really need a top line center to push everything back 1

they dont have one, and dont have one coming up in their system.

not sure what to do there.

Wild thought of they day, try Zucc as C ?

 

[Blue Blooded]

I've posted this here and there, but this is how I see our current makeup:

Top-6:

Our top-6 in nearly complete, we are set on the wings with Nash, Zuccarello, Kreider, and Hagelin, but we lack another legit C. Considering Stepan is at worst a high-end 2C, we "only" need someone as good as him or slightly better. To those claiming Hagelin isn't a top-6 player I'm just going to state that you are flat out wrong. He drives play very well and only Nash is better at scoring points 5v5, so if Hagelin isn't a top-6 player 5v5 - neither are Kredier, Stepan, Zuccarello, Callahan etc.

Hagelin-Stepan/Blank-Nash
Kredier-Blank/Stepan-Zuccarello

Bottom-6:

Here it gets tricky. We currently have a VERY good bottom-6, but they are expensive and will become even more expensive - and you don't want to tie up your money here. Pouliot can stay if he keeps his salary at his current level, although I expect more from him 5v5. The same goes for Brassard. Callahan will be WAY too expensive for a 3RW, especially since we aren't even using his best asset at the moment: Playing in front of the net on the PP. The same goes for the 4th line where Boyle-Moore-Dorsett are doing a great job, but they are all going to be too expensive. Dorsett is already a bit too expensive for a 4th line and Boyle and Moore are both going to make more than him after this season. My take:

Blank/Pouliot-Blank/Brassard-Blank
Blank-Blank/Boyle-Dorsett

Defence:

Girardi will get too expensive, should be traded. Strålman has stumbled a bit lately, but he was amazing through the first 20 games and was great last year as well - re-sign. Not sold on either Moore or Del Zotto, neither moves the puck that well and both make stupid decisions. Would prefer one legit puck mover in the Strålman mould, and one "safe" guy in the Sauer mould. If one has to stay it should be Moore since he is a lot cheaper than Del Zotto.

McDonagh-Strålman/Blank
Staal-Blank/Strålman
Blank/Moore-Blank

Goaltending:

Lundqvist
Talbot

So what are the blanks? 1/2C, entire 3rd line, 4LW, 4C, 1/2RD, 3rd pairing.

1/2C: Richards actually does a good job here IMO, but his contract carries so much risk that he has to be bought out. Ola talked about prying Granlund away from Minnesota, could be an option but I fear he may be another Brassard. Maybe try to lure Kadri away from Toronto. Otherwise we may have to count on Brassard/Miller/Lindberg stepping up in the short-term. It's a shame we weren't in on the Seguin deal. The Bruins may have gone for something based around Callahan or Girardi. Ryan O'Reilly could be a target, but he'll be expensive. Kyle Turris has been fantastic this season - fantastic contract as well. Don't go the long-term UFA route though - that'll end in tears.

3rd line: Brassard is great on the PP, but underwhelming 5v5. If he can stay cheap I'll give him another shot. Same for Pouliot. Miller, Fast, Lindberg, and Kristo could all potentially be capable third liners next year, but I'd hate to bank on that - make them earn it. Though there are usually great bargains to be had in August - like Mason Raymond/Tom Gilbert were this summer.

4th line: If Boyle takes a hometown discount I want to keep him. Big part of the locker room and one of the best 4th liners in the league. But I think someone will pay him stupid money unfortunately. I think at least one of Miller/Lindberg/fast should be here. They are all responsible enough for the role and Krüger in Chicago has proven that you can develop well as a player even on a 4th line.

1/2RD: My dream is Byfuglien, but the most important aspect is puck moving ability. Jake Gardiner could be a good fit, Sami Vatanen is another choice although he may be more of a 2/3RD at this point.

3rd pairing: Vatanen is as earlier mentioned a good name. Gardiner would be fantastic - maybe a bit wasted in this role though. Connor Allen may be good enough as well. McIlrath may be ready.

"Dream" roster for 2014-15:

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Kreider-Turris-Zuccarello
Pouliot-Brassard-Hemsky (1-year deal)
Fast-Miller-Dorsett

McDonagh-Strålman
Staal-Byfuglien
Gardiner-Vatanen

Lundqvist
Talbot

 

[slipknottin]

I've watched enough of lindberg and fast to think neither is a 3rd line option right now. And unless they jump up in their development. Perhaps never will be.

 

[Dagoon44]

"Dream" roster for 2014-15:

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Kreider-Turris-Zuccarello
Pouliot-Brassard-Hemsky (1-year deal)
Fast-Miller-Dorsett

McDonagh-Strålman
Staal-Byfuglien
Gardiner-Vatanen

Lundqvist
Talbot

Good luck playing
Boston
Toronto
Buffalo
Philadelphia
Brooklyn
With that line up..

 

[Ghost of jas]

Miller will be a mainstay of the lineup before either Lindberg or Fast.

 

[slipknottin]

Miller will be a mainstay of the lineup before either Lindberg or Fast.

Yea I would agree. Miller is a significantly better player than Lindberg is in Hartford.

 

[OverTheCap]

I see a gaping hole at 1st line center and the absence of an offensive defenseman with elite puck-moving ability. Pretty much the same holes that have plagued this team for the last 10 years or so. If Sather hasn't figured out how to address these needs by now, he never will.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Good luck playing
Boston
Toronto
Buffalo
Philadelphia
Brooklyn
With that line up..

No problem at all with the bolded, we'll just have the puck the entire game. Those are some of the worst teams in the league.

Boston may prove difficult, but I think that team would win a 7 game series as long as they stay true to their game and don't let Boston get under their skin and into their heads.

 

[Dagoon44]

You really feel they would beat Boston with that line up? listen I am not talking fighting at all. The Boston line up would physically punish that team.. Make fun of the islanders all you want they are coming up and will be good soon,. As will Toronto

 

[Jersey Girl]

Rick Nash - Marian Hossa. That's what he reminds me of. Nash has been very up and down this season, after carrying the Rangers all of last year, but got nothing done in the playoffs. He's exactly the kind of guy you want to drive the bus, but unfortunately he's a passenger. A very good complimentary piece, albeit at a very high cost, I'm not sure I believe Nash is the answer to the top line RW.

All too often Nash reminds me more of Marcel Hossa

 

[DekeR]

Start with a legit 1st line and drop everyone down a notch to where they belong. Only Nash fills the 1st line with this roster and that's what is sad about this GM. This has been going on for years now.

 

[Brady Skjei]

Essay time!

I'm gonna echo the fact that we do have a hole at 1C, but I'm not so sure that Stepan won't develop into that in the next few years. I understand, yeah, he's having a terrible year (compared to expectations) but he is going to bounce back from this. 23 years old.

We're not getting a lottery pick unless we tank (lol no thanks) or deal some of our promising young talent for one. When it comes to the draft sometimes you have to get lucky when you pick in the mid-range every year. We have to draft the right players.. obviously any first rounder we get in the mid-range is going to be a few years off from helping the big club out anyway.

I think Kreider, Nash, and Zucc are players that will help our top-6 now and in the future. I believe Hagelin is a top-6 player; if the world was perfect, we'd have another high-skill winger in the top 6 and have Hags playing the third line with players akin to him.. a 3rd line that is solid defensively that can without question help with the offense. But for now, I say put him the top 6.

Brassard needs to pick up his 5 on 5 play. He's an RFA and his qualifying offer (I believe) is north of 4 mil. He's not playing like he deserves much more than that. With Richie gone after this year, we need Brass to pick up his play on a consistent basis, which is something that's plagued him for his entire career. I don't believe he's a long term answer.

Callahan is going to ask for a lot of money. Girardi will also command a lot of money. What we should do is trade one or both of them for young assets and 1st rounders. What Sather won't do is exactly that, especially if were in position to make the playoffs. I love both of them, but Callahan is becoming injury prone and Girardi is getting older and slower. Maybe keep one and deal the other. Letting either walk is poor asset management.

The thing I like about our prospect pool is that although we don't have much high-end talent, we have players that (in my opinion) will be able to fill roles in the relatively close future. For the future, Lindberg would be a fantastic 3C. Fast a great 3rd liner with top-6 upside. If Kristo can improve his all around game and develop a little more he might command a top-6 role (maybe not next year, but after). Again, these aren't star players but they're pieces that, when they develop, can solidly fill roles that every successful team has. I think JT Miller will be without question ready for the 3C role next year with the ability to move up to 2C if he plays well.

However, I do think we need more prospects capable of filling a 4th line role soon. Prospects that will win battles and out work the other team. Boyle is great at what he does, I'm a fan of keeping him.. but we need speed and energy on the 4th line to go with him. Energy players like Dorsett or Prust or even Avery who will get under the other team's skin and will out work the other team. Grit and toughness. Players that can hold their own against tougher teams like Boston. We don't have any prospects who can do that save for maybe Yogan and Kantor, the latter of which is, from what I read, has the work ethic but needs a lot of work on his tools. I, and many of you, am tired of stop-gap bottom 6-ers who do nothing for us. Let's develop our own players and compliment them with vets that actually would help out until they're developed into solid players for their role.

As for the defense, we can pencil in McD and Staal on the left side for next year. John Moore needs to buckle down and play much better. Personally, I think Conor Allen will without a doubt be ready for 3rd pairing minutes next year.. hell, he might be this year. McIlrath the same thing, only I don't see him quite ready this year. 2 inexperienced D-men as a pair is dangerous though. Keep Stralman, especially if we let go of Girardi. Hopefully a DZ or Girardi deal can get us back a solid, young defenseman to plug in here.

Goaltending is not an issue.

 

[cd211]

I want 3 things-

1-top 6 center
2-physical C/LW/RW in top 9 (potentially Miller)
3-Physical crease clearing dman (McIrath needs to be that player)

Stralman is a player that should be 3rd pair, i dont want to trade MDZ unless for that top6 center we need.. but if not and he stays i want him to earn and play in that top 4 again..

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Essay time!

I'm gonna echo the fact that we do have a hole at 1C, but I'm not so sure that Stepan won't develop into that in the next few years. I understand, yeah, he's having a terrible year (compared to expectations) but he is going to bounce back from this. 23 years old.

We're not getting a lottery pick unless we tank (lol no thanks) or deal some of our promising young talent for one. When it comes to the draft sometimes you have to get lucky when you pick in the mid-range every year. We have to draft the right players.. obviously any first rounder we get in the mid-range is going to be a few years off from helping the big club out anyway.

I think Kreider, Nash, and Zucc are players that will help our top-6 now and in the future. I believe Hagelin is a top-6 player; if the world was perfect, we'd have another high-skill winger in the top 6 and have Hags playing the third line with players akin to him.. a 3rd line that is solid defensively that can without question help with the offense. But for now, I say put him the top 6.

Brassard needs to pick up his 5 on 5 play. He's an RFA and his qualifying offer (I believe) is north of 4 mil. He's not playing like he deserves much more than that. With Richie gone after this year, we need Brass to pick up his play on a consistent basis, which is something that's plagued him for his entire career. I don't believe he's a long term answer.

Callahan is going to ask for a lot of money. Girardi will also command a lot of money. What we should do is trade one or both of them for young assets and 1st rounders. What Sather won't do is exactly that, especially if were in position to make the playoffs. I love both of them, but Callahan is becoming injury prone and Girardi is getting older and slower. Maybe keep one and deal the other. Letting either walk is poor asset management.

The thing I like about our prospect pool is that although we don't have much high-end talent, we have players that (in my opinion) will be able to fill roles in the relatively close future. For the future, Lindberg would be a fantastic 3C. Fast a great 3rd liner with top-6 upside. If Kristo can improve his all around game and develop a little more he might command a top-6 role (maybe not next year, but after). Again, these aren't star players but they're pieces that, when they develop, can solidly fill roles that every successful team has. I think JT Miller will be without question ready for the 3C role next year with the ability to move up to 2C if he plays well.

However, I do think we need more prospects capable of filling a 4th line role soon. Prospects that will win battles and out work the other team. Boyle is great at what he does, I'm a fan of keeping him.. but we need speed and energy on the 4th line to go with him. Energy players like Dorsett or Prust or even Avery who will get under the other team's skin and will out work the other team. Grit and toughness. Players that can hold their own against tougher teams like Boston. We don't have any prospects who can do that save for maybe Yogan and Kantor, the latter of which is, from what I read, has the work ethic but needs a lot of work on his tools. I, and many of you, am tired of stop-gap bottom 6-ers who do nothing for us. Let's develop our own players and compliment them with vets that actually would help out until they're developed into solid players for their role.

As for the defense, we can pencil in McD and Staal on the left side for next year. John Moore needs to buckle down and play much better. Personally, I think Conor Allen will without a doubt be ready for 3rd pairing minutes next year.. hell, he might be this year. McIlrath the same thing, only I don't see him quite ready this year. 2 inexperienced D-men as a pair is dangerous though. Keep Stralman, especially if we let go of Girardi. Hopefully a DZ or Girardi deal can get us back a solid, young defenseman to plug in here.

Goaltending is not an issue.

i dont know. goaltending is an issue as far as depth goes and that is a big concern. Rangers not only need quality goaltending prospects that are young and actually have a good chance to make the NHL, they can also use actual depth because the goalies in the minors have no chance of making the NHL.... not one solid young goalie with potential.

 

[Kakko]

i dont know. goaltending is an issue as far as depth goes and that is a big concern. Rangers not only need quality goaltending prospects that are young and actually have a good chance to make the NHL, they can also use actual depth because the goalies in the minors have no chance of making the NHL.... not one solid young goalie with potential.

We have a 26 year old

 

[Garden Mystique]

Awesome post great read

 

[Blueblood9]

Yes we all want a superstar #1 center and anothe ultra skilled top 6 winger but realistically looking at our roster and farm.

I dont know the FA market to well to know whats out there but if a RD is out there snatch him up, even an extra center for the 3rd/4th line

Kreider-Step-Nash
Hagelin-miller/brass-zucc
kristo-miller/brass-cally
Carcillo/boyle/moore/dorset/kantor/Yogan pick 3 or 4 and it will be a competant 4th line

McD-Strals
Staal-McI
Moore-allen

Dunno if both McI and Allen will be ready but trade DZ and Gman to recoup F and a RD if needed.

Then again im not an nhl gm so what the hell do i know

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

We have a 26 year old

we have Lundqvist and Talbot??


and no future in net at all? not a good sign at all. if Rangers had depth like the Kings Leafs, they can use their depth to address another need.

 

[Kakko]

we have Lundqvist and Talbot??


and no future in net at all? not a good sign at all. if Rangers had depth like the Kings Leafs, they can use their depth to address another need.

They don't need a future in net right now. Maybe throw some late picks around (like Skapski)

The Rangers have depth in other areas. We have a lot of defensemen

 

[Trxjw]

A well thought out post is a welcome sight around here. Kudos to you.

While this pile of nonsense I'm about to write doesn't exactly fit into the theme of the thread, I'm just going to write it anyway.

IMO, this team needs to ask and address three specific questions:

What kind of team do we want to be?
A high-skill, offensive-minded team (Think: San Jose or Chicago)? A gritty, defensive-minded kind of team (Think: St Louis or Nashville)? A team that wears you down physically and focuses on puck possession in the offensive zone (Think: Boston or Anaheim)? Some combination of the above?

Once we've answered that, then we have to ask ourselves:

Who do we have that fits that mold?
You don't build a team with a 12 identical forwards, 6 identical defenders, and a goalie. You need a bit of everything. However, each of those guys has to fit into your end goal. If you want to play a defensive system, you can't load your team up with guys who are clueless in their own end. If you want to play a high-octane offensive system, you can't load up with guys who can't pass or lack on-ice vision. So, of the players we have, which ones fit into that new system?

That brings us to:

Now that we've identified our building blocks, what holes do we have now and how do we want to fill them?
This is a layered question because it not only involves personnel decisions, but also a timeline. Do you need those holes filled right away? Can you wait a year? Two years? Five years? What does your current group look like at the end of that timeline? Does it make sense to move the guy who is a perfect fit for the system, but is 31 years old and will be 35 before you're really ready to make a move? Does moving a guy hurt now, but give you a leg up in the future?

In my vision for the team, we'd build our team in the mold of the Ducks. That means I'd want at least two of the following traits in most of my forwards: Size, physicality, a willingness to battle for every puck, and above average vision. The first three are obvious, but the last trait is the difference between a team like Boston and a team like the 11-12 Rangers. You can win every puck along the wall, but if you can't step off the boards and create a play with the puck, you're never going to be an offensively potent team.

On defense, you need mobility and the ability to transition the puck. The goal of this team would be pretty simple: Spend more time in their end than in your own. That means defenders who can skate and pass the puck out of the defensive zone.

Goaltending is what it is. Not rocket science there.

So, all that being said, here's how the current team shakes out based on that kind of style, and what I feel is a modest timeline of two years (Ignoring goaltending for obvious reasons):

Kreider - ? - Nash
? - Stepan - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Miller - ?
? - Boyle - Dorsett

McDonagh - ?
Staal - ?
Moore - ?

All of those players fall into the mold of what I'm looking for. Obviously the glaring omissions are Del Zotto, Girardi, Callahan, Brassard and Stralman. Girardi, Del Zotto and Callahan, I feel, could be dealt and net us players who project to fill those holes within two years. I'm looking at players who are racking up miles on the bus between the big club and their AHL team. Kids who are ready to step in sooner rather than later, but are facing a log jam, or are trade bait for cup contenders.

Stralman is a bubble guy for me. If I could get a good return for him, I wouldn't hesitate to move him. All depending on what kind of contract he's looking for.

Brassard I would likely qualify and look to be a stop-gap for next season in the likely event that Miller spends more time in the AHL. I believe he'd be a group III after next season, so he could he the market as a coveted UFA if he has a productive year. It could work out for both parties.

I have some ideas of players I would target in trade, as well as through free agency and the draft, but that's enough for one post I think.