Thoughts on Al Murray?

[Rorschach]

When Al Murray was the head of scouting here, it was before the HF Boards age for me so I didn't know all that much about him. All I remember was how come so many other teams found players later in drafts or how their firsts panned out and our team kept going after Gretzky's old pals.

I wasn't sad when Lombardi fired him and I was really pleased like we all are since. But now Lightning fans are calling Murray the best in the business. I do believe some of the players we drafted right before and after Lombardi got here, the credit goes to Murray and not Taylor.

So any longtime Kings fans have any stories or ideas to share about the guy?

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[Captain Mittens*]

There is another factor that people always leave out with drafting and that is development.
The Kings development was probably the worst in the league for a whIle and I think players with talent busted who would have made it

One example of a young guy who flourished once he left was Robert Lang.

 

[King'sPawn]

There is another factor that people always leave out with drafting and that is development.
The Kings development was probably the worst in the league for a whIle and I think players with talent busted who would have made it

One example of a young guy who flourished once he left was Robert Lang.

This is a great response that covers a lot of what I was going to say.

Al Murray was very good at looking at talent. He had a great eye for players whom you would expect to develop in the short term. It's one reason why I thought he was the perfect fit to be the head scout for Team Canada at the WJCs.

He definitely had some hits for the Kings: Kopitar, Quick, Frolov, Cammalleri.

EVERY scouts have their misses. I'm not going to rag on Murray for picking Brown over Getzlaf or Tambellini and Boyle over Perry. Futa drafted Teubert over Myers and Karlsson and Forbort over Tarasenko... so it's silly to discredit a scout because of misses.

One major issue with Murray, and I don't know if it was his own style or directive from management, is the character and mental makeup of the athletes seemed secondary. That's not to say he didn't draft anyone with good character, but it just didn't have the same familial vibe as Futa and Lombardi have with their prospects.

For example, Pushkarev didn't want to commit to the physical side of being a pro. I remember issues with Tukonen, too. Lehoux and Roussin put up great numbers in juniors, but that's about all they accomplished. I'm leaning more towards Murray keeps character secondary, given picking up Anthony DeAngelo, who was suspended for using a slur against his own teammate.

Also, during the Kings' tenure, their draft strategy seemed to coincide a LOT with Central Scoutings' rankings. Lombardi wasn't afraid to make some swing for the fences picks, such as Hickey at 4 and Simmonds (who was unranked by Central Scouting) at 61. There just seemed to be a lot less long term research put into these players.

Development is definitely a key role in the success of any player drafted by any organization, and I think Tampa Bay has done a great job developing their young talent. From a drafting style, however, I think Murray had character and commitment lower on the priority list.

 

[Herby]

Kind of OT, but have to point it out...


Not to single you out KP because it's almost taken as fact among Kings fans who have been around for awhile., but the above comment about Cammalleri truly shows how a false comment made on one messageboard (LGK) can grow into something that people take as fact well over a decade later.

The truth is the exact opposite happened, the Kings wanted to sign Cammalleri after his junior year and MC at first did not want to sign and wanted to return for his senior year. It was the Kings who forced the deal, offering the rookie max and promises of playing with Deadmarsh and Allison that was eventually able to sway Cammalleri to forego his senior year and sign with the Kings. And it is often an example that Red Berenson uses when he criticizes NHL GM's for making promises to is players they didn't come close to keeping. There is no truth to the OHL rumors at all.

As for Al Murray, there were just to many misses. Karlsson, Steckel, Tukonen, Grebeshkov Tambellini, Boyle in the draft. They also chose Jared Aulin over many other Avs prospects who went on to have better NHL careers. Ultimately, just like with DT it was the 2003 draft that did him in as Kings Head Scout. The Kings were in a position to clean up with all those picks and they crapped the bed. Their long term legacy was salvaged in 2005 with the Kopitar and Quick picks but it was to late to save each guys job.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

The truth is the exact opposite happened, the Kings wanted to sign Cammalleri after his junior year and MC at first did not want to sign and wanted to return for his senior year. It was the Kings who forced the deal, offering the rookie max and promises of playing with Deadmarsh and Allison that was eventually able to sway Cammalleri to forego his senior year and sign with the Kings. And it is often an example that Red Berenson uses when he criticizes NHL GM's for making promises to is players they didn't come close to keeping. There is no truth to the OHL rumors at all.

Herby is 110% correct about this

 

[Herby]

The Kings also had an obsession with drafting projects with good size but limited hockey ability.

Biron, Karlsson, Steckel, Boyle. The Kings would have for sure gone Jessiman in 2003 had he been there.

 

[KingsFan7824]

No AHL team of their own for most of the early years with Murray heading things up. I don't know where the choice came from, but so many picks in the late 90's/early 00's were used on overage Europeans. A couple worked, but I'm guessing that came from the lack of interest from, or inability to sign, NHL free agents. Those guys were cheap, and no development time needed. At least in theory.

Yeah, the 03 draft. Two consecutive picks directly in front of where Perry went. Then in the 2nd round, Pushkarev was the 44th pick, Bergeron the 45th. Weber didn't go too many picks after that. You can do that all day with every team though.

The Kings were kind of a mess during his time. 1st round pick traded for Khristich, in a last ditch effort to give Gretzky someone to play with. The Palffy deal, which while it worked, I still don't think the Kings were ready as an organization in terms of depth to make that deal.

It was a tough time in a tough circumstance. No cap, players weren't choosing to come to LA. From 1989 to 1999, the Kings had six 1st round picks. In that decade, the Kings picked maybe 6 or 7 guys that did much of anything in the league, and only 2 or 3 that did anything with the Kings.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Everyone else has said what needs to be said for the most part. I think he was better than he showed here but not as good as he's showing with Tampa, having a 'career stretch' so to speak. That being said, I'm sure he's also insulated with a better development program and management so that's huge support for what he's doing. However, he IS widely lauded as one of the best in the business anyway, but just like a player, you put him on a good team, and bigger things can happen.

 

[Rorschach]

Is it me or does Tampa's team seem like a random bunch of underrated but often smallish players plus Stamkos and Hedman?

 

[Captain Mittens*]

I am really curious to see how they do in the playoffs. Depending on the match-up, they might very well be out in the first round again.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Is it me or does Tampa's team seem like a random bunch of underrated but often smallish players plus Stamkos and Hedman?

Yes. They're focused on speed and skill and they have that in spades. When we started pushing them around though, they fell apart. I'll never forget Kucherov getting checked by Regehr...then Kucherov backed out of the corner to wait for theplay to come to him instead of going to get it, and T Johnson would let us get to the puck first before even trying to dig it out. It's the kind of team we absolutely intimidate.

Crazy though because they have some towers on D.

 

[Rorschach]

I have the feeling that in the playoffs, Johnson is going to remind some of us of Corey Millen and others of Craig Janney.

 

[King'sPawn]

Kind of OT, but have to point it out...


Not to single you out KP because it's almost taken as fact among Kings fans who have been around for awhile., but the above comment about Cammalleri truly shows how a false comment made on one messageboard (LGK) can grow into something that people take as fact well over a decade later.

The truth is the exact opposite happened, the Kings wanted to sign Cammalleri after his junior year and MC at first did not want to sign and wanted to return for his senior year. It was the Kings who forced the deal, offering the rookie max and promises of playing with Deadmarsh and Allison that was eventually able to sway Cammalleri to forego his senior year and sign with the Kings. And it is often an example that Red Berenson uses when he criticizes NHL GM's for making promises to is players they didn't come close to keeping. There is no truth to the OHL rumors at all.

As for Al Murray, there were just to many misses. Karlsson, Steckel, Tukonen, Grebeshkov Tambellini, Boyle in the draft. They also chose Jared Aulin over many other Avs prospects who went on to have better NHL careers. Ultimately, just like with DT it was the 2003 draft that did him in as Kings Head Scout. The Kings were in a position to clean up with all those picks and they crapped the bed. Their long term legacy was salvaged in 2005 with the Kopitar and Quick picks but it was to late to save each guys job.

You're right. I remember you corrected me before about Cammalleri, and for some reason I forgot. My apologies. I edited the post.

As for some of the misses, I forgot about Steckel. Didn't Aulin have a concussion? I can't blame Murray for that one.

For ones when players just didn't pan out, those I put some blame in the development. I can't blame Murray for those exclusively.

As I said, the ones where players just didn't want to commit, or lacked mental toughness/character, are ones I put on Murray

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Look at the Kings' history of wasted second round picks under Al Murray, it's astonishing how piss poor it is. The only quality player his staff selected in the second round is Cammalleri, that's it.

For some odd reason Taylor's scouts also largely avoided drafting any Canadian junior prospects, probably because of their repeated failures of signing them and the fact that they could retain the rights of collegiate or European prospects without having to sign them for a longer period of time.