Thomas Vanek

[123TripleDoge]

I mean, if the injury was most of the second half of the year, I'm not sure it explains anything. Like you said, he had a great second half of the year.

The poor first half was just him adjusting to the new system and team.

The second half would be the new normal, but would've been even better had he not been fighting off the injury.

#optimism

 

[gphr513]

The poor first half was just him adjusting to the new system and team.

The second half would be the new normal, but would've been even better had he not been fighting off the injury.

#optimism

Wouldn't that be nice? Let's hope that is the case...

 

[Billy Mays Here*]

Yes, here come the injury excuses. With or without it he was still under performing, and he'd better improve next season.

 

[Vashanesh]

Has he had hernia issues forever? Because even with the reported issues, he's had a history of being slower than molasses forever.

Hopefully this means he'll be better next year, but I don't think anyone should have expectations.

 

[Minnesota]

Still doesn't explain his menagerie of terrible plays throughout the season.

/wet blanket

 

[Vashanesh]

Still doesn't explain his menagerie of terrible plays throughout the season.

/wet blanket

This is basically where I'm at. It's just too hard to ignore, injury or otherwise.

 

[57special]

throw Heatley and Havlat in a blender and you get Vanek.

At least he showed up for every game.

I think both the Wild managemnet and fans have question their demand for scoring at any cost. Players like Vanek and Kessel can be had, but they simply can't play in a system like MN's or MTL's that demand responsible defensive play by all five players on the ice.

I just got off the phone with a buddy in Toronto who has been watching the Leafs since the Keon days. He said Kessel is an absolute lazy pig on the ice, who refuses to backcheck, go in corners, or block a shot. His offensive skills simply don't make up for rest of his game. Throw in a eight year contract at 8M and you've got a complete mess.

It appears that Vanek is similar, though in Vanek's case a lot of his failings seem to be attributable to his lack of speed. I do actually remember him making some timely plays on the backcheck last year, so the will might be there. My big problem with him is his propensity to giving up turnovers while attempting "creative" passes, I.e. A back pass to no one when his other two linemates are deep in the offensive zone.

 

[Minnewildsota]

You people make me laugh:

Koivu doesn't score enough points.
Vanek doesn't play enough defense.

Want your cake and eat it too.

 

[Vashanesh]

You people make me laugh:

Koivu doesn't score enough points.
Vanek doesn't play enough defense.

Want your cake and eat it too.

We're such ******** for wanting well rounded, good hockey players.

 

[tomgilbertfan]

You people make me laugh:

Koivu doesn't score enough points.
Vanek doesn't play enough defense.

Want your cake and eat it too.

Yeah it's too bad Hockey doesn't exist in a vacuum like that.

It's not just "Koivu doesn't score enough points, it's "Koivu doesn't score enough points on a team with maybe 1 offensively-talented Center, with the contract that he has and the PP time that he gets. On a team that needs their vets to step up he's scored 2 goals, 9 assists in his last 28 playoff games".

It's not just "Vanek doesn't play enough defense" it's "Vanek plays no defense and isn't putting up enough points to make up for that, and he turns the puck over more than a supposed offensively-talented forward should, thus killing possession in the one zone he's supposed to excel in, all while making 6.5 million dollars on a cap-tight team."

 

[nickschultzfan]

I think both the Wild managemnet and fans have question their demand for scoring at any cost. Players like Vanek and Kessel can be had, but they simply can't play in a system like MN's or MTL's that demand responsible defensive play by all five players on the ice.

I just got off the phone with a buddy in Toronto who has been watching the Leafs since the Keon days. He said Kessel is an absolute lazy pig on the ice, who refuses to backcheck, go in corners, or block a shot. His offensive skills simply don't make up for rest of his game. Throw in a eight year contract at 8M and you've got a complete mess.

It appears that Vanek is similar, though in Vanek's case a lot of his failings seem to be attributable to his lack of speed. I do actually remember him making some timely plays on the backcheck last year, so the will might be there. My big problem with him is his propensity to giving up turnovers while attempting "creative" passes, I.e. A back pass to no one when his other two linemates are deep in the offensive zone.

Kessel at least has the ability to counterattack and forecheck. Vanek is so slow in the neutral zone that he has to try all those gimmicky plays at the blueline that exposes the Wild defensively.

I don't need Kessel to dig pucks out of corner or provide excellent Dzone coverage. We have so many other guys that do that. I need him to break out of the zone with speed and push defenders back, and to score on the PP.

 

[nickschultzfan]

A Vanek+ for Kessel swap could work out well for the Wild.

 

[Digitalbooya]

A Vanek+ for Kessel swap could work out well for the Wild.

It's funny you think Vanek would waive his NMC to go to Toronto. It's also funny that you think Kessel's contract added to what we have is going to work. It's hilarious that you think those 4 extra goals scored by Kessel are going to be worth the 1st and Spurgeon that we'd have to include on top of Vanek for Toronto to accept.

 

[Wild11MN]

It's funny you think Vanek would waive his NMC to go to Toronto. It's also funny that you think Kessel's contract added to what we have is going to work. It's hilarious that you think those 4 extra goals scored by Kessel are going to be worth the 1st and Spurgeon that we'd have to include on top of Vanek for Toronto to accept.

This. 7 years @ 8 mil. Yeah right.

 

[Wild48]

Yeah it's too bad Hockey doesn't exist in a vacuum like that.

It's not just "Koivu doesn't score enough points, it's "Koivu doesn't score enough points on a team with maybe 1 offensively-talented Center, with the contract that he has and the PP time that he gets. On a team that needs their vets to step up he's scored 2 goals, 9 assists in his last 28 playoff games".

It's not just "Vanek doesn't play enough defense" it's "Vanek plays no defense and isn't putting up enough points to make up for that, and he turns the puck over more than a supposed offensively-talented forward should, thus killing possession in the one zone he's supposed to excel in, all while making 6.5 million dollars on a cap-tight team."

I wonder if a sports hernia had anything to do with the lack of production.

 

[nickschultzfan]

It's funny you think Vanek would waive his NMC to go to Toronto. It's also funny that you think Kessel's contract added to what we have is going to work. It's hilarious that you think those 4 extra goals scored by Kessel are going to be worth the 1st and Spurgeon that we'd have to include on top of Vanek for Toronto to accept.

You've said this a couple of times, and it's been reported by Russo a couple of times that there are trade windows for Pominville and Vanek. No waiver needed.

Kessel is a better scorer than Pominville, and he's 5 years younger. I wouldn't add Spurgeon and a 1st to that bid, but I would consider Vanek + 1st/Spurgeon + Backstrom dump.

 

[nickschultzfan]

This. 7 years @ 8 mil. Yeah right.

Let's break this down:

Pominville's contract current takes up ~8.1% of the cap. Vanek's contract takes up 9.4% of the cap. That's 17.5% of the cap in 2 players that are not apart of the long-term future of the Wild.

Kessel would cost $2.4 milllion/year more than Pominville over the next 4 seasons. Kessel is 5 years younger than Pominville and a better player. That is the cost of a Cooke or Brodziak.

After that his contract would mirror the deal Vanek got last year (/w projected $85 million cap in 19/20). And Vanek's contract is better than Pominville's current contract.

In other words, for the cost of a Pominville and a Cooke, I could have a better and much younger player than Pominville, and the downside is at the end I would be left with another Vanek contract?

Yeah, that actually sounds pretty reasonable price to pay for a 35-goal scorer.

 

[nickschultzfan]

I don't think Kessel should be the first option, but if Fletcher is getting zero traction bringing in top-6 young center, a hockey trade for Kessel would at least give the Wild some more speed and high-end talent going into next year.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Let's break this down:

Pominville's contract current takes up ~8.1% of the cap. Vanek's contract takes up 9.4% of the cap. That's 17.5% of the cap in 2 players that are not apart of the long-term future of the Wild.

Kessel would cost $2.4 milllion/year more than Pominville over the next 4 seasons. Kessel is 5 years younger than Pominville and a better player. That is the cost of a Cooke or Brodziak.

After that his contract would mirror the deal Vanek got last year (/w projected $85 million cap in 19/20). And Vanek's contract is better than Pominville's current contract.

In other words, for the cost of a Pominville and a Cooke, I could have a better and much younger player than Pominville, and the downside is at the end I would be left with another Vanek contract?

Yeah, that actually sounds pretty reasonable price to pay for a 35-goal scorer.

And if we could trade Pominville + Cooke for Kessel, I'd be all for it. It's the 2-3 other outgoing high level assets that trips this up for me.

 

[Wild11MN]

Let's break this down:

Pominville's contract current takes up ~8.1% of the cap. Vanek's contract takes up 9.4% of the cap. That's 17.5% of the cap in 2 players that are not apart of the long-term future of the Wild.

Kessel would cost $2.4 milllion/year more than Pominville over the next 4 seasons. Kessel is 5 years younger than Pominville and a better player. That is the cost of a Cooke or Brodziak.

After that his contract would mirror the deal Vanek got last year (/w projected $85 million cap in 19/20). And Vanek's contract is better than Pominville's current contract.

In other words, for the cost of a Pominville and a Cooke, I could have a better and much younger player than Pominville, and the downside is at the end I would be left with another Vanek contract?

Yeah, that actually sounds pretty reasonable price to pay for a 35-goal scorer.

I get what you're saying, just disagree again. I would not say Vanek's contract is better than Pominville's, but that's assuming a bounce-back year for Pommers.

The problem is you're comparing it like we could obtain either player for free. We already have Pominville and Vanek. We'd be giving up Pominville++(+) for Kessel, and that isn't something I want to do.

 

[Digitalbooya]

You've said this a couple of times, and it's been reported by Russo a couple of times that there are trade windows for Pominville and Vanek. No waiver needed.

Kessel is a better scorer than Pominville, and he's 5 years younger. I wouldn't add Spurgeon and a 1st to that bid, but I would consider Vanek + 1st/Spurgeon + Backstrom dump.

To which Toronto would decline but I'll play along. Let's say they want the 1st more than Spurgeon since they are rebuilding.
So:

Vanek+1st+Backstrom
for
Kessel

This offseason signings:
Granlund ~ 2 years $3m
Haula ~ 2 years $900k
Leopold ~ 1 year $1m
Folin ~ 2 years $1m
Dubnyk ~ 4 years $4m (very much in doubt at the moment)

Parise($7.53m)-Granlund($3m)-Kessel($8m)
Zucker($900k)-Koivu($6.75m)-Pominville($5.6m)
Cooke($2.5m)-Coyle($3.2m)-Nino($2.66)
Sutter?($600k)-Haula($900k)-Fontaine($1m)
Total: $42.64m

Suter($7.53m)-Brodin($4.16m)
Scandella($4m)-Spurgeon($2.66m)
Leopold($1m)-Dumba($900k)
Total: $20.25m

Dubnyk($4m)
Kuemper($1.25m)
Total: $5.25m

Total: $68.14m
Cap Ceiling: $71.5m
Cap space: $3.36m
Roster: 20/23

3 spots to fill on the roster for injury:
Folin ~ $1m
Graovac ~ $750k
Keranen ~ $700k
Total:$2.45m

Total cap space with roster completed: $910k

Then the following summer we have these people to re-sign:
-Leopold (or insert Olofsson into the NHL lineup)
-Nino
-Zucker
-Spurgeon
-Fontaine (I demand we re-sign him!)
-Schroeder
-Kuemper

We'd have roughly $10m of cap space to re-sign these guys if the cap doesn't go up. I'd say Nino, Zucker, and Spurgeon are all going to want north of $3m if not $4m each.

 

[Minnesota]

You've said this a couple of times, and it's been reported by Russo a couple of times that there are trade windows for Pominville and Vanek. No waiver needed.

Vanek has an iron-clad NMC. Pominville has a M-NTC, so he's your only realistic trade piece.

 

[goon]

Vanek Slowed by Sports Hernia

 

[MN_Gopher]

With guys like Vanek and Kessel. If their teams were winning no one would care. Look at Kane. CHI wins so Kane is god like. Look up anti highlights of Kane, its him coasting back getting beat in corners or doing nothing for team USA etc... His production makes up for his lack in other areas? No its just his team wins and TOR and MN have not.

Vanek, Kessel, Kane, are like the MLB = of the DH its all about production cause their glove is worthless. All you can expect is 25+ goals like 30 HR but they are not going to pitch/play goal play D/win a gold glove.

 

[57special]

I would like to think that Vanek's problems were all about a sport's hernia, as it would give me optimism for a better year next year, but did he also have a sport's hernia last year when he was either benched, or put on the third line during MTL's playoff run?

Did a sport's hernia cause him to make drop passes?

Will this injury heal up, or linger like Matt Cooke's did?