Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid: Flyers Rumors & Media Mentions

[deadhead]

It wouldn't surprise me if he packaged picks and prospects for an under 23 center.
A "win now" and "win later" move.

Or getting a player back for Walker/Seeler instead of a draft pick that won't show up for 4-5 years (most 2nd rd players take a while to marinate, or they'd be top 20 picks).

Jones pointed out that when Murray accumulated D-men for Anaheim, some were used for trades down the road - that gathering assets was not just about building a talent pipeline, but the option to make trades.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Jones saying focusing on Center makes me think a trade could be likely for one before the deadline.

Teams with a surplus of young centers:

(Ones I could not being untouchable)

Anaheim (Zegras)
Buffalo (Cozens, Middlestadt, Kulich, Krebs)
Columbus (Sillinger, K. Johnson)
LA (Turcotte)
Ottawa (Grieg, Pinto)

Getting one of these guys, especially a Zegras would be a huge win, but I imagine the cost is going to be high on him. The reclamation project guys may be more attainable but what would a bottom feeding team like Columbus, Buffalo, Ottawa, or Anaheim really want for their young guys. Seems like now would not be the time to trade a guy like Sillinger or Zegras or Cozens, etc. if you are those teams. LA trading Turcotte for something makes sense since he is in the AHL and they are contending for a playoff spot, but I can't imagine any of the other younger guys with higher end potential unless they get a king's ransom.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

Oh, I think they knew what they had in Sanheim, they knew last year was an off season for him, but if they were rebuilding, did they want an 8 year commitment to a #3 D-man? They tried him in a bigger role this season, and he quickly wore down under a 25 minute workload. A good player, but one a rebuilding team probably doesn't want to commit to age 34 if they expect to be rebuilding during his prime seasons.

Same with Frost, they knew he was a solid #3, but how would he play when the team was more competitive and every game wasn't garbage time? Slow start this season raised doubts, but his play since his heart to heart with Torts shows his potential - now he has to demonstrate it's not a two week heater but him taking his game to the next level.

What makes someone like TK a safe bet (other than injury risk) is he's highly competitive, a big contract won't change that. With other young players you want to see that fire on a regular basis before making a long-term commitment. The league is full of players who got a big contract off a peak season and never played at that level again.

Why do you need to spin everything? Are some people here too harsh on the new GM/Prez because the last few regimes were awful and some of the “advisors” from those eras are still advising? Yes, in my opinion.

That doesn’t mean you need to counter their bad takes with equally bad takes of your own on the other side.

They absolutely tried to sell low on Sanheim. They very clearly did not know what they had in him. They were wrong. And it’s not like we were getting off of a “bad” contract, we were taking back a worse contract in Krug, who is making more than Sanheim, just 4 less years. Krug has continued to be putrid this year. You’d probably need to trade a 1 to get off of that contract, which basically means Sanheim was “valued” in that trade at “cap dump” levels. It was a bad mistake that Krug’s NMC saved us from.

Frost is more than a solid #3 and his heart to heart with Torts didn’t change shit. He’s posting the same quality #s he was earlier this year. He had great underlying metrics, poor puck luck and was playing with teammates with below average finishing ability to pay off the chances he creates (THANKS TORTS!!!). Now that he’s finally been bumped up in the lineup and is being given some quality wingers, the points are coming with the good underlying #:s, but sure… torts lit the fire.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who on here defended Sanhero’s contract even as he had a down season last year?

Just me. If I’m forgetting someone, please correct me.

Funny, because his defenders wanted him signed long-term when he got the bridge, but oh boy did they bail when he did get signed long term & struggled.

This is a very negative energy. You ought to try being vigorously positive. It's refreshing and good. I believe in you. I love you.

 

[FlyerNutter]

First three pages - most people said it was a good deal. The ones that didn't said the deal was fine in a vacuum, just that it may have made sense to trade him for futures.

Confirmed with Link: - Travis Sanheim Signs Eight Year Extension ($6.25AAV)

forums.hfboards.com

It’s a stupid move to this day. In what world should a rebuilding team be giving out long contracts to guys that are going to age out once there is actually a realistic chance at contention?

Sanheim‘s value was two fold. In a trade before the extension for assets, and the added benefit of a better draft pick for moving one of their established defensemen.

Of course. That’s not the Flyers strategy. We shall win with overwhelming secondary bullshit, and culture.

Rebuild my ass. As soon as they dive into FA we can stop pretending it’s anything other than another Flyer half ass retool.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

This is a very negative energy. You ought to try being vigorously positive. It's refreshing and good. I believe in you. I love you.

On the contrary, it's positive energy. I defended the Sanhero contract, even after he had a down season. If that's not positive, what is? Everyone who blasted it -- very negative energy and I totally agree should be frowned upon.

 

[Beef Invictus]

On the contrary, it's positive energy. I defended the Sanhero contract, even after he had a down season. If that's not positive, what is? Everyone who blasted it -- very negative energy and I totally agree should be frowned upon.

You are being extremely negative to the other posters in this electric marketplace of ideas.

"The life of day before yesterday has departed today."

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Jones saying focusing on Center makes me think a trade could be likely for one before the deadline.

Teams with a surplus of young centers:

(Ones I could not being untouchable)

Anaheim (Zegras)
Buffalo (Cozens, Middlestadt, Kulich, Krebs)
Columbus (Sillinger, K. Johnson)
LA (Turcotte)
Ottawa (Grieg, Pinto)

I'd kill for Zegras, but I know Torts would eat him alive and I don't know if we have enough to actually properly get him without sacrificing more young players.

Kent Johnson should 100% be on the radar as that kid is so f***ing skilled.

Turcotte looks like he's finally starting to piece things together at the pro level but I'm still very wary on him.

Grieg honestly screams Torts to me.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You are being extremely negative to the other posters in this electric marketplace of ideas.

"The life of day before yesterday has departed today."

You have put me in a negative mood by failing to appreciate my positivity.

I think I'll listen to some Zevon.

Nothing left but the sound of the front door closing forever.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You have put me in a negative mood by failing to appreciate my positivity.

I think I'll listen to some Zevon.

Nothing left but the sound of the front door closing forever.

"I've got memories to last me?" No need. New memories of power and glory are coming. They will begin...tonight. The new era of dominance is now. NOW.

 

[deadhead]

Why do you need to spin everything? Are some people here too harsh on the new GM/Prez because the last few regimes were awful and some of the “advisors” from those eras are still advising? Yes, in my opinion.

That doesn’t mean you need to counter their bad takes with equally bad takes of your own on the other side.

They absolutely tried to sell low on Sanheim. They very clearly did not know what they had in him. They were wrong. And it’s not like we were getting off of a “bad” contract, we were taking back a worse contract in Krug, who is making more than Sanheim, just 4 less years. Krug has continued to be putrid this year. You’d probably need to trade a 1 to get off of that contract, which basically means Sanheim was “valued” in that trade at “cap dump” levels. It was a bad mistake that Krug’s NMC saved us from.

Frost is more than a solid #3 and his heart to heart with Torts didn’t change shit. He’s posting the same quality #s he was earlier this year. He had great underlying metrics, poor puck luck and was playing with teammates with below average finishing ability to pay off the chances he creates (THANKS TORTS!!!). Now that he’s finally been bumped up in the lineup and is being given some quality wingers, the points are coming with the good underlying #:s, but sure… torts lit the fire.

Krug has NOT been putrid this year, his raw numbers aren't as good as Sanheim's b/c the team is lousy at possession.

His xGFrel +4.98 is the best of the Blues D-men. He's also their PP1 QB.
Sanheim 1.13 pp/60, Krug 1.07 at 5x5.

The 4 years matter if you're looking at a 3-5 year rebuild last summer, b/c you could always buy out or trade him in 2 years with 50% retained - the deal was a 1st rd pick and dumping Sanheim's contract.

Frost's linemates:
Tippett 214
Atkinson 159
Foerster 147
Brink 113
TK 107
Farabee 81
Hathaway 26
Deslauriers 16

 

[Rebels57]

It’s a stupid move to this day. In what world should a rebuilding team be giving out long contracts to guys that are going to age out once there is actually a realistic chance at contention?

Sanheim‘s value was two fold. In a trade before the extension for assets, and the added benefit of a better draft pick for moving one of their established defensemen.

Of course. That’s not the Flyers strategy. We shall win with overwhelming secondary bullshit, and culture.

Rebuild my ass. As soon as they dive into FA we can stop pretending it’s anything other than another Flyer half ass retool.

Fletcher thought they were already contending though. In that respect, the extension made sense lol

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I'd kill for Zegras, but I know Torts would eat him alive and I don't know if we have enough to actually properly get him without sacrificing more young players.

Kent Johnson should 100% be on the radar as that kid is so f***ing skilled.

Turcotte looks like he's finally starting to piece things together at the pro level but I'm still very wary on him.

Grieg honestly screams Torts to me.

That's why he is the perfect target. Buy low. He's playing well in the AHL and I think is 22 maybe? Even if he isn't a top liner a good young middle six center to be had on the cheap is exactly the kind of deal we should be making right now. I posted earlier about a deal with Hart to the Kings for Turcotte, a first, and Kaliyev. Not sure how realistic that is from either side, especially with the HC investigation looming over everyone's heads still, but that's the kind of move I want to see.

 

[bennysflyers16]

That was before he had a bad season.

I stood by it. Everyone else blasted it in hindsight as a bad contract & “unmovable.”

I didn't, but who cares ?

You hope he plays bad ?

 

[FlyerNutter]

That's why he is the perfect target. Buy low. He's playing well in the AHL and I think is 22 maybe? Even if he isn't a top liner a good young middle six center to be had on the cheap is exactly the kind of deal we should be making right now. I posted earlier about a deal with Hart to the Kings for Turcotte, a first, and Kaliyev. Not sure how realistic that is from either side, especially with the HC investigation looming over everyone's heads still, but that's the kind of move I want to see.

Flyers when thinking about more Middle six players.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Flyers when thinking about more Middle six players.

Same when it comes to thinking about RWers...

 

[Magua]

Anaheim (Zegras)
Buffalo (Cozens, Middlestadt, Kulich, Krebs)
Columbus (Sillinger, K. Johnson)
LA (Turcotte)
Ottawa (Grieg, Pinto)

I think hell would freeze over before Tortorella and Zegras link up. Cozens and Mittelstadt aren't being traded; Krebs isn't good. I don't think Sillinger is any good, and I don't think Kent Johnson is being shipped yet (I wonder if that was a Cutter Gauthier ask?). Turcotte is about to be 23 with 12 NHL games played and an unremarkable AHL tenure. Pinto just looks like a fine middle 6 guy; ditto Greig, who is at LW right now and might project there.

It's damned hard to get top 6 centers, let alone 1Cs. That's definitely the point. And it's why treating Frost (who is better than plenty of those guys) like chopped liver irks me. Trading for one happens once in a blue moon, and I'm against trading for non-needle moving centers just to say they acquired a center.

There's one guy I didn't mention: Kulich (Ostlund too on Buffalo). I'm not sure if he's more projectable at wing or center, but that's the type of age/talent I'm targeting, hoping to hit on upside. I do think Buffalo might listen on one of them. Other than that, it usually just amounts to draft prayers.

 

[deadhead]

I think hell would freeze over before Tortorella and Zegras link up. Cozens and Mittelstadt aren't being traded; Krebs isn't good. I don't think Sillinger is any good, and I don't think Kent Johnson is being shipped yet (I wonder if that was a Cutter Gauthier ask?). Turcotte is about to be 23 with 12 NHL games played and an unremarkable AHL tenure. Pinto just looks like a fine middle 6 guy; ditto Greig, who is at LW right now and might project there.

It's damned hard to get top 6 centers, let alone 1Cs. That's definitely the point. And it's why treating Frost (who is better than plenty of those guys) like chopped liver irks me. Trading for one happens once in a blue moon, and I'm against trading for non-needle moving centers just to say they acquired a center.

There's one guy I didn't mention: Kulich (Ostlund too on Buffalo). I'm not sure if he's more projectable at wing or center, but that's the type of age/talent I'm targeting, hoping to hit on upside. I do think Buffalo might listen on one of them. Other than that, it usually just amounts to draft prayers.

You have to give to get, if the Flyers want a young top 6 center, they'd probably have to build a deal around players like Andrae, Brink and draft picks. Which I'm not against, the purpose of obtaining assets is to use them to make the team better, whether through players you keep or players you obtain.

I'd only worry if they traded prospects/picks for players over 25 who wouldn't be core players in a rebuild. And I don't think they have any interest in that kind of move.

 

[Magua]

Krug has NOT been putrid this year, his raw numbers aren't as good as Sanheim's b/c the team is lousy at possession.

His xGFrel +4.98 is the best of the Blues D-men. He's also their PP1 QB.
Sanheim 1.13 pp/60, Krug 1.07 at 5x5.

The 4 years matter if you're looking at a 3-5 year rebuild last summer, b/c you could always buy out or trade him in 2 years with 50% retained - the deal was a 1st rd pick and dumping Sanheim's contract.

The lengths you will go to claim trading Sanheim for Krug wouldn't have been bad is.......well, it's actually quite normal. We even got the "retain and trade him at age 34" angle. Carry on, my friend.

 

[landsbergfan]

I think hell would freeze over before Tortorella and Zegras link up. Cozens and Mittelstadt aren't being traded; Krebs isn't good. I don't think Sillinger is any good, and I don't think Kent Johnson is being shipped yet (I wonder if that was a Cutter Gauthier ask?). Turcotte is about to be 23 with 12 NHL games played and an unremarkable AHL tenure. Pinto just looks like a fine middle 6 guy; ditto Greig, who is at LW right now and might project there.

It's damned hard to get top 6 centers, let alone 1Cs. That's definitely the point. And it's why treating Frost (who is better than plenty of those guys) like chopped liver irks me. Trading for one happens once in a blue moon, and I'm against trading for non-needle moving centers just to say they acquired a center.

There's one guy I didn't mention: Kulich (Ostlund too on Buffalo). I'm not sure if he's more projectable at wing or center, but that's the type of age/talent I'm targeting, hoping to hit on upside. I do think Buffalo might listen on one of them. Other than that, it usually just amounts to draft prayers.

are we doing this again? shall we????

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The lengths you will go to claim trading Sanheim for Krug wouldn't have been bad is.......well, it's actually quite normal. We even got the "retain and trade him at age 34" angle. Carry on, my friend.

We heard the same thing with Atkinson who unsurprisingly is looking like a buyout or a contract expiration in his third out of the four years left on the contract. Hell we’re probably still going with that even now.

 

[deadhead]

The lengths you will go to claim trading Sanheim for Krug wouldn't have been bad is.......well, it's actually quite normal. We even got the "retain and trade him at age 34" angle. Carry on, my friend.

People wanted to trade Sanheim at the TDL instead of sign him long-term, well, you'd have probably gotten a late 1st rd pick or so at the TDL, that's what Skjei garnered, for example. So Briere was trying to get the same deal with Sanheim starting an 8 year deal coming off a bad season, Krug was the cost to making that deal - which Briere saw as affordable b/c he cost less than Sanheim and had a term that could be bought out down the road if they needed to.

Sanheim has played up to his contract, but he isn't a real 1st pair D-man, and the last four years will be from age 31-34, after Michkov arrives. Is that "safer" than making that trade and being able to dump Krug when Michkov comes over?

I'd say it's a wash either way.
Of course, if Briere knew the Flyers would be competitive this season, it would have been a bad deal.
But hindsight is 20/20.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Flyers when thinking about more Middle six players.

I mean if you can think of a way to acquire young legit top line players or prospects without giving up too much, I'm sure we'd all like to see it happen. Those players rarely get dealt.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

People wanted to trade Sanheim at the TDL instead of sign him long-term, well, you'd have probably gotten a late 1st rd pick or so at the TDL, that's what Skjei garnered, for example. So Briere was trying to get the same deal with Sanheim starting an 8 year deal coming off a bad season, Krug was the cost to making that deal - which Briere saw as affordable b/c he cost less than Sanheim and had a term that could be bought out down the road if they needed to.

Sanheim has played up to his contract, but he isn't a real 1st pair D-man, and the last four years will be from age 31-34, after Michkov arrives. Is that "safer" than making that trade and being able to dump Krug when Michkov comes over?

I'd say it's a wash either way.
Of course, if Briere knew the Flyers would be competitive this season, it would have been a bad deal.
But hindsight is 20/20.

So you’re saying not trading Sanheim at the TDL was a mistake by Chuck? Since we would’ve had to accept 4 years of a bad contract to move him in the summer?

How is that possible when Chuck didn’t make any mistakes?

Sorry, these mental gymnastics are getting difficult to follow. I was keeping up as you did that somersault over the Morgan Frost benchings into a backhandspring over the Bobby Brink demotion, but now I’m just lost.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I'm not going to make any declarative statements about the availability of young CBJ players who may have fallen out of favor because I don't know anything.

But I will say that the CBJ org displays all the classic signs of incompetence right now. Making bets on that feels like a good direction.

It wouldn't surprise me if he packaged picks and prospects for an under 23 center.
A "win now" and "win later" move.

More than fine with this. It’s just a narrow band of players that almost never come up for trade.