The Way the Jackets Are Being Built -Blues Redux?

[EspenK]

Over in the game thread and on various occasions since the J's arrived it has been stated or at least believed that the Jackets are being built in the image of the Blues. Last nights butt kicking got me thinking Are they?

First and foremost difference I see is there is not the physicality/in your face mentality in the Jackets that I see in the Blues.

Second is they have Hitch, we don't.

Third they are more experienced.

Is it consistency? The Jackets will have guys go on streaks and then disappear for a streak. I know all teams go through this but the Jackets seem to to only have one or two hot guys at a time.

Goaltending? We have been without Bob for a month now but before that his stats were way down. St Louis backup has outplayed their starter this year.

Experience and talent on D? This could be a second major difference. Their D-men are better than ours.

Is it chemistry?

Is it overall talent level?

Is it a system thing?

Has to be a reason(s) besides we are young and haven't been healthy. Doesn't there?

Click to read more...

 

[pete goegan]

Over in the game thread and on various occasions since the J's arrived it has been stated or at least believed that the Jackets are being built in the image of the Blues. Last nights butt kicking got me thinking Are they?

Has to be a reason(s) besides we are young and haven't been healthy. Doesn't there?

Not necessarily.

 

[Jackets16]

It is experience and coaching. Also, some of the guys that GMJK has brought in are still in juniors. We are a couple years away from being the team we can be, IMO. We still should be making the playoffs between now and then, but we won't be as good as we can be for 2-3 years.

 

[Sore Loser]

I think we're building just fine ... with a fairly patch-worked roster made up of guys that were cast out from other teams (Letestu, Gaborik, Bobrovsky); we're having some success on the ice. Off the ice? We have three first round picks "down on the farm" that look damn good. We also have two very good prospects in goal, and really have added depth at every position.

My argument/response: BE PATIENT! I know it's a lot to ask after what we've all been through for the last 13 years, but for the first time, we actually have something to be excited for. It takes time ... at least this time it's being done the right way. We won't likely make the playoffs this year (if we do, I consider it a major bonus), but we're being competitive and at least aren't the Edmonton Oilers.

 

[Samkow]

Was the loss really bad enough for this hopelessly reactionary thread EspenK?

Also, what's the obsession with building in somebody's image? I just want to build a team that has more goals than the other team whenever the game ends

Does that make me wrong?

 

[cbjfaninmo]

I think we're building just fine ... with a fairly patch-worked roster made up of guys that were cast out from other teams (Letestu, Gaborik, Bobrovsky); we're having some success on the ice. Off the ice? We have three first round picks "down on the farm" that look damn good. We also have two very good prospects in goal, and really have added depth at every position.

My argument/response: BE PATIENT! I know it's a lot to ask after what we've all been through for the last 13 years, but for the first time, we actually have something to be excited for. It takes time ... at least this time it's being done the right way. We won't likely make the playoffs this year (if we do, I consider it a major bonus), but we're being competitive and at least aren't the Edmonton Oilers.

JD and company preached patience when they arrived in St. Louis. Building through the draft and stocking the farm was going to take time. St. Louis is starting to reap those benefits now. I think the Jackets are on a very similar path but it will take some more time. Patience.

 

[FANonymous]

 

[EDM]

I agree with Sore Loser. Things are fine. If we are to search for a missing ingredient, I think it is patience.

 

[EDM]

It is somewhat ironic. But I am an avid, long term fan of three sports team--the Philadelphia Phillies, the Washington Redskins and the Jackets. Whatever may have been in the past, the Jackets have the brightest future and the best management team of any of those franchises.

 

[EspenK]

Was the loss really bad enough for this hopelessly reactionary thread EspenK?

Also, what's the obsession with building in somebody's image? I just want to build a team that has more goals than the other team whenever the game ends

Does that make me wrong?

Well excuse me for trying to get a discussion going. Guess I just don't get the protocol around here except to jump on anything and everything that is said.

And I'm not obsessed with building this team in any image (except maybe a Stanley Cup contender), I was merely asking if people thought the jackets were being built or resemble the Blues. I was looking for intelligent comments, comparisons,discussion instead of reactionary blasting.

And no you are not wrong in your wanting to build a team that scores more goals than the opposition. That is a great idea.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Over in the game thread and on various occasions since the J's arrived it has been stated or at least believed that the Jackets are being built in the image of the Blues.

Perhaps your premise is flawed? Where has this been said and by whom an in what context? Even if you allow it, does it mean they're building a team that's supposed to be "like" the Blues, or that they're building an organization and team in the same manner in which the Blues were built?

 

[EspenK]

Perhaps your premise is flawed? Where has this been said and by whom an in what context? Even if you allow it, does it mean they're building a team that's supposed to be "like" the Blues, or that they're building an organization and team in the same manner in which the Blues were built?

I quit op cit and all that other crap many years ago.In the spirit of your request here is a brief 3 post sequence in last nights game thread that went like this:

Big brother vs little brother

Truth. This is how we are being built.

Gawd, I hope so................................................ .

Other than that I'm not about to go search for stuff that supports the fact that some here and elsewhere have talked about the likelihood, desire,chance, possibility, etc of the Jackets being built like the Blues since Jarmo's arrival. If you haven't picked up on that theme then maybe I have misunderstand all that I have read.

 

[Robert]

Over in the game thread and on various occasions since the J's arrived it has been stated or at least believed that the Jackets are being built in the image of the Blues. Last nights butt kicking got me thinking Are they?

First and foremost difference I see is there is not the physicality/in your face mentality in the Jackets that I see in the Blues.

Second is they have Hitch, we don't.

Third they are more experienced.

Is it consistency? The Jackets will have guys go on streaks and then disappear for a streak. I know all teams go through this but the Jackets seem to to only have one or two hot guys at a time.

Goaltending? We have been without Bob for a month now but before that his stats were way down. St Louis backup has outplayed their starter this year.

Experience and talent on D? This could be a second major difference. Their D-men are better than ours.

Is it chemistry?

Is it overall talent level?

Is it a system thing?

Has to be a reason(s) besides we are young and haven't been healthy. Doesn't there?

A broad question but I can understand your intent... The Blues took 7 or 8 years to reinvent themselves under JD... Hitch was only hired in the last few years and he joined a well-built team…...

Yes, JD and JK are building the CBJ in the same way as they rebuilt SL, slowly yet not afraid to fire people at the right time... (Howson)

One difference in these two rebuilding processes (SL vs CLS) few recognize including John Davidson, the fan base in SL has experienced a winning organization (more or less) since the NHL expanded to 12 teams in 1966...

The CBJ fan base hasn’t experienced much more than a losing organization for 13 years (their inception)…

The CBJ fans need to see positive results at a quicker pace than what the SL fans did 8 years ago… This is something I don’t think our current President understands.

 

[pete goegan]

A

One difference in these two rebuilding processes (SL vs CLS) few recognize including John Davidson, the fan base in SL has experienced a winning organization (more or less) since the NHL expanded to 12 teams in 1966...

The CBJ fan base hasn’t experienced much more than a losing organization for 13 years (their inception)…

The CBJ fans need to see positive results at a quicker pace than what the SL fans did 8 years ago… This is something I don’t think our current President understands.

I don't know if you're correct about what JD knows or thinks, but believe you make a very good point about the difference between the two fan bases.

 

[Robert]

I don't know if you're correct about what JD knows or thinks, but believe you make a very good point about the difference between the two fan bases.

I don't know what anyone thinks other than myself.. I only assume based on my experience, what I see, and what I hear and read.. Thank you for your positive comment Pete, I spent 15 minutes with many edits drafting that comment, it had to be scripted correctly...

 

[Jackets16]

I don't know what anyone thinks other than myself.. I only assume based on my experience, what I see, and what I hear and read.. Thank you for your positive comment Pete, I spent 15 minutes with many edits drafting that comment, it had to be scripted correctly...

I think the bigger question is if he cares what the fans think. I am not trying to be smart either. I think he understands we may not have as much patience, but he knows how to build an organization and isn't going to do something he doesn't believe in just to satisfy some fans. He wants to do it right and make all of the fans happy and happy for a long time. Just my opinion.

BTW, good post.

 

[Robert]

I think the bigger question is if he cares what the fans think. I am not trying to be smart either. I think he understands we may not have as much patience, but he knows how to build an organization and isn't going to do something he doesn't believe in just to satisfy some fans. He wants to do it right and make all of the fans happy and happy for a long time. Just my opinion.

BTW, good post.

IMO, JD is the best we have had since 1997.... but that doesn't mean the man feels what we have felt for 13 years.

 

[EspenK]

I think the bigger question is if he cares what the fans think. I am not trying to be smart either. I think he understands we may not have as much patience, but he knows how to build an organization and isn't going to do something he doesn't believe in just to satisfy some fans. He wants to do it right and make all of the fans happy and happy for a long time. Just my opinion.

BTW, good post.

I agree that JD/JK will do this (or at least try to) in a manner that will build the team for long term success. While all of us would like to see an immediate leap to being a realistic SC contender I think they will take whatever time it takes to do it correctly.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I quit op cit and all that other crap many years ago.In the spirit of your request here is a brief 3 post sequence in last nights game thread that went like this:

Big brother vs little brother

Truth. This is how we are being built.

Gawd, I hope so................................................ .

Other than that I'm not about to go search for stuff that supports the fact that some here and elsewhere have talked about the likelihood, desire,chance, possibility, etc of the Jackets being built like the Blues since Jarmo's arrival. If you haven't picked up on that theme then maybe I have misunderstand all that I have read.

I was asking genuinely, and I wasn't asking for citation, but context. I wasn't sure if you based your "be like the Blues" premise on things actually said by team officials, inferring from things you'd seen reported, taking the general tone of this forum or some combination. When you say "it has been stated or at least believed that the Jackets are being built in the image of the Blues," it's helpful to know what you're talking about before replying.

To save us both the time, I will simply suggest that basing your original premise on the presumption of some perceived collective on an internet fan forum may have been a mistake.

 

[Robert]

I was asking genuinely, and I wasn't asking for citation, but context. I wasn't sure if you based your "be like the Blues" premise on things actually said by team officials, inferring from things you'd seen reported, taking the general tone of this forum or some combination. When you say "it has been stated or at least believed that the Jackets are being built in the image of the Blues," it's helpful to know what you're talking about before replying.

To save us both the time, I will simply suggest that basing your original premise on the presumption of some perceived collective on an internet fan forum may have been a mistake.

Wut?? lol

 

[CBJfan4evr]

Well excuse me for trying to get a discussion going. Guess I just don't get the protocol around here except to jump on anything and everything that is said.

And I'm not obsessed with building this team in any image (except maybe a Stanley Cup contender), I was merely asking if people thought the jackets were being built or resemble the Blues. I was looking for intelligent comments, comparisons,discussion instead of reactionary blasting.

And no you are not wrong in your wanting to build a team that scores more goals than the opposition. That is a great idea.

[/QUOTE

The day I look at the standings and see a positive goal differential I'll be a happy camper.

 

[Crede777]

Will they still be preaching patience if/when the number of season ticket holders plummets after another disappointing season?

I mean, I want to see a well built team, sure. But even more I want relevance and success even if it is just for a season.

The question isn't about whether or not it will take time, but whether or not they have time to take after 13 years.

 

[major major]

Our best players are kids. That alone might be most of the difference between our level and the Blues level, though I highly doubt we'd be quite as good even if you controlled for age.

Also, though we are more truculent than most, they are extremely truculent. I think the ambition is to keep improving that, but that's a long process.

But to answer the OP, yes we are being shaped after teams like the Blues and the Bruins. There's only two paths to success in the NHL, the Blues/Bruins model, and the lucking into absurd talent model. I think Jarmo/JD know to go for the former.

 

[beatnick]

The day I look at the standings and see a positive goal differential I'll be a happy camper.

I'd settle for a positive shot differential right now.

 

[gocbj]

I agree with Sore Loser. Things are fine. If we are to search for a missing ingredient, I think it is patience.

Interesting. I agree with patience, but look at the different (and conflicting) considerations:

1) Hockey Operations: IMO, our problem in the past has been making personnel moves like we are trying to "win next year". Whether us fans like it or not, the thing to do is to build and execute a 3 to 5 year rebuilding plan which should result in a deep organization. I think we are into year 2 right now.

2) Leading me to Fans who fill seats: HO needs to fake it. They can't declare a 3 - 5 year plan. So far so good. I think they are doing a good job balancing hope with reality and keeping enough butts in seats.

3) Players: They DO understand reality. Hopefully HO communicates with them about the real plan.

Question: Do we have 53 points in 40 games in us? 25 - 12 - 3? I think not. Sellers.