The value of the multi-year tank is on display this SCF

[AlexBrovechkin8]

You forgot Ekblad. Also, Lundell was drafted by them.

Ekblad is at best their #3 defenseman at this point and it seems Panthers fans are split on whether they want him back on the team next year so not sure that’s a great example. And Lundell was drafted 12OA, does that support the tanking argument?

People forget Ekblad was playing 25 minutes a night and came 6th in Norris balloting on the President's Trophy Winner two seasons ago. He still occupies an important Righthanded Defenseman spot (one of the hardest things to find in Hockey) and is third in ice time for them in the postseason.

Not sure what two season ago has to do with them making the Cup now. Ekblad sure isn’t a Norris contender now and has been pretty mediocre despite getting all that TOI. I know he’s important but is he one of their crucial core pieces or is he a nice complimentary player at this point?

I just think Florida is a bad example of this tanking argument. If you were to list their top ten most important players there’s definitely one player in that group that they got by tanking (Barkov) and then you could argue their 2RD and 3C are in there as well in terms of top 10 most important players but one of those players (their 3C) wasn’t a lottery pick.

When you think of teams with cores that are homegrown, is Florida a team you think of? They’re very well constructed but I’d rank them towards the bottom of the list when it comes to players they drafted and developed that are playing key roles now.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

Top 5 picks of teams that won Stanley cup. Op went back 14 years on Oilers picks so I kept it relevant and used that criteria relevant to when said team won the cup. Top 5 picks

Vegas is hard because they haven't been around long enough and made some stellar deals in expansion draft that gave them alot of ammo for blockbuster trades.
Hanafin
Eichel
Fluery
pietrangelo
Pretty sure all top 5 picks
Also circumvented cap

Colorado
Mackinnon
Makar
Landeskog
Byram
Duchene
Top 5s


Tampa
Drouin
Hedman
Connely
Stamkos
Pretty sure those were top 5 picks just going by memory i couldnt get their draft history page to load so don't hate too much on spelling or if they weren't but I'm pretty sure they were. Circumvented cap as well

St Louis
pietrangelo
Johnson
Outlier with only 2 top 5 on this list

Washington
Ovi
Backstrom
Alzner

Pittsburgh
Whiteny
Malkin
Crosby
Stall
Fluery

Chicago
Kane
Toews
Barker


So if you really consider it then almost every year in the scf you can say that multiple "tanks" (if you want to call it that) are on display

Whitney was traded before Pittsburg won, he doesn't have a cup.

 

[Grifter3511]

Considering Taylor Hall, Adam Larsson and Nail Yakupov are all long gone, I don't see how the Oilers picks in 2010 or 2012 are at all relevant to the team now.

The Oilers are like the shining reason why people who think tanking is a good strategy are completely out to lunch.

No...it's foolproof. If you can suck long enough (and not lose your job as a GM) and GUARANTEE 1st overalls (that's the tricky part) for long enough, EVENTUALLY you'll stumble your way to a generational top 5 all time player.

Totally foolproof.

 

[BLNY]

Contemporary Top 3 Picks for Each Team in the Finals:

Florida Panthers:

2010 - 3rd overall
2011 - 3rd overall
2013 - 2nd overall
2014 - 1st overall

4 Top Three picks in a five-year span

Edmonton Oilers:

2010 - 1st overall
2011 - 1st overall
2012 - 1st overall
2014 - 3rd overall
2015 - 1st overall

5 Top Three picks in a six-year span

The whole "tanking doesn't work!" argument always focuses on the unsuccessful rebuilds, but once again we see the familiar pattern in the Salary Cap era that this is the most reliable way to build a team with Stanley Cup aspirations.

Long-story short: if your team is no good, tank and tank hard, and don't be afraid to just keep on tanking if you don't have immediate results until you eventually do.

I mean, you're talking about teams that were tanking more than 10 years ago. Waiting 10 years to realize the benefit of something isn't really the way to promote doing it.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Contemporary Top 3 Picks for Each Team in the Finals:

Florida Panthers:

2010 - 3rd overall
2011 - 3rd overall
2013 - 2nd overall
2014 - 1st overall

4 Top Three picks in a five-year span

Edmonton Oilers:

2010 - 1st overall
2011 - 1st overall
2012 - 1st overall
2014 - 3rd overall
2015 - 1st overall

5 Top Three picks in a six-year span

The whole "tanking doesn't work!" argument always focuses on the unsuccessful rebuilds, but once again we see the familiar pattern in the Salary Cap era that this is the most reliable way to build a team with Stanley Cup aspirations.

Long-story short: if your team is no good, tank and tank hard, and don't be afraid to just keep on tanking if you don't have immediate results until you eventually do.

Yep, just like Chicago did, getting Toews and Kane. I remember in the mid 2000s people would give away for free tickets to Chicago games: they were THAT bad no one cared to go see them.
Now they‘re again doing the same play, all over again.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Not sure what two season ago has to do with them making the Cup now.

It's all part of the rebuild process..

 

[ijuka]

Ekblad is at best their #3 defenseman at this point and it seems Panthers fans are split on whether they want him back on the team next year so not sure that’s a great example. And Lundell was drafted 12OA, does that support the tanking argument?

Ekblad matters for tanking because he was one of the main picks they got while actually tanking.

Lundell matters when talking about top 5-7 most important players for the team because he's one of the top 5-7 most important players for the team.

Direct quote:

Of their most important 5-7 players, only Barkov was drafted by the team

Lundell is one of their most important 5-7 players, and was drafted by the team.

 

[StrangeVision]

Sometimes it doesn't suck to suck.

 

[El Travo]

So tanking works if:

1. You ship off some of the players you tanked for (or drafted highly).
2. Go through numerous coaches.
3. Go through numerous GMs.
4. Go through numerous players.
5. Don't mind going around a decade with little results.

The tank itself isn't what makes a team successful, it's finding a way out of it that does. You need luck, savvy trades, and good cap management.

 

[Grifter3511]

Ekblad matters for tanking because he was one of the main picks they got while actually tanking.

Lundell matters when talking about top 5-7 most important players for the team because he's one of the top 5-7 most important players for the team.

Direct quote:

Lundell is one of their most important 5-7 players, and was drafted by the team.

Barkov, Bennet, tkachuk, reinhart, lundell, forsling, bobrovsky? Would those be your 7?

 

[SullivanT]

Whitney was traded before Pittsburg won, he doesn't have a cup.

That has nothing to do with the topic I'm sure not all the players that were drafted high were on the teams when they won either but if OP is using Hall, yakipov in their argument then it has to go both ways does it not?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Top 5 picks of teams that won Stanley cup. Op went back 14 years on Oilers picks so I kept it relevant and used that criteria relevant to when said team won the cup. Top 5 picks

Vegas is hard because they haven't been around long enough and made some stellar deals in expansion draft that gave them alot of ammo for blockbuster trades.
Hanafin
Eichel
Fluery
pietrangelo
Pretty sure all top 5 picks
Also circumvented cap

Colorado
Mackinnon
Makar
Landeskog
Byram
Duchene
Top 5s


Tampa
Drouin
Hedman
Connely
Stamkos
Pretty sure those were top 5 picks just going by memory i couldnt get their draft history page to load so don't hate too much on spelling or if they weren't but I'm pretty sure they were. Circumvented cap as well

St Louis
pietrangelo
Johnson
Outlier with only 2 top 5 on this list

Washington
Ovi
Backstrom
Alzner

Pittsburgh
Whiteny
Malkin
Crosby
Stall
Fluery

Chicago
Kane
Toews
Barker


So if you really consider it then almost every year in the scf you can say that multiple "tanks" (if you want to call it that) are on display

 

[majormajor]

It's true.

If your team is the worst team in the NHL for a decade, you will likely at some point be able to draft a superstar center (McDavid, Barkov), and though most of your top picks won't be very good or will leave early, and though you still need to make absolute steals (Hyman, Forsling, really everything Zito has done), yes it might help.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Elite talent isn't a guarantee for success, but it is damn, damn hard to win without it.

Granted, the tank long and tank hard mentality doesn't necessarily bear enough fruit if you can't draft your way out of a paper bag outside the top handful of picks, as we're all well aware.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Colorado and Tampa both followed this model. Pittsburgh and Chicago before them as well.

It's the way to win in the salary cap era, outside of a couple exceptions or getting really lucky.

This is actually the more important part.

 

[57special]

What the Oilers are doing is not easy, as teams like BUF, ARI, OTT, TOR, and the like have proven over the years. It's not all about "tanking", as recent Cup winners like STL, VGK, and Bos have proven.

Edm has had massive struggles to be even a relevant team despite having two of the top 10 players in the world and multiple #1 picks. This year has been more of a testament to the value of adding/developing a solid defender(Ekholm), a young offensive star(Bouchard),and some good depth players who have found chemistry playing together in a more solid system, much like the Trotz coached Caps did. The snarky part of me would also add that they are lucky that they didn't have to face a healthy VGK or Wild team.

Bottom line is that it is not as simple as tanking. You then need to luck out with your pick and not get a Yak, Pulju, or Kakko. You then need a coach who is the right match for the team, then everyone has to play together and do their jobs, big or small. People forget that as talented as the 80's Oiler's were, they were a very cohesive team in which everyone had a role. This EM team is not as talented, but seem to be trending towards a team rather than a group of individuals. Kudos to them, and the coach, for making it happen.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Look, tanking and multi-year rebuilding isn't for the feint of heart. People point out picks that didn't work out, even picks not currently on the teams. But that's PART of the multi-year high drafting process, not something unusual or a bug in it.

It's tough for Ownership to swallow no doubt.

Here is all that can wrong in a given year that you are awful and essentially punt: (i) you lose the draft lotto and get moved down, (ii) you don't get moved down, but the draft isn't very good at the top, (iii) you don't get moved, but you make the wrong pick.

And that is why you do it for multiple years... sure you statistically won't likely nail it every year. And if that's all your only year of max suckage, now you're S.O.L. Unfortunately though, it's the way to build a winner. To go from Zero to Hero, just like that. It is what it is. Commit to it, and commit to it taking however it takes. Everyone wants to resist it, and say "you're wrong!" and hope there is some other way because five years of suckage for no guarantee sucks from a fan perspective, but it also is what it is.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

7 drafts after Matthews with nothing to show for it.
Painful.

 

[BFLO]

For every Colorado you have a Columbus, Arizona, or Buffalo. I don't think it's a reliable way to build a team, but the argument can be made that if you're a team that is stuck at the lower end of the league that it probably increases your chances a bit.

Florida isn't necessarily winning because of their own draft picks though - they're winning because of Calgary's... At least that's what put them over the top.

Calgary? What about Buffalo's #2 overall in Sam Reinhart?

 

[Grifter3511]

So to summarize: draft high and draft well for a number of years and your odds of becoming a contender at some point down the road increases.

In other news, water is wet.

 

[paragon]

Barkov, Bennet, tkachuk, reinhart, lundell, forsling, bobrovsky? Would those be your 7?

Drop Bennett. Add Verhaeghe.

 

[joestevens29]

Well every city can't be as desirable as Boston or Dallas. Bruins signed Chara after a dogshit season. That's not happening in Edmonton.

It's like playing Texas Holdem but one player gets 1 hole card and another gets 3. Is that guy a genius player or benefiting from the advantage?

This is in part to why it looked like we were tanking for so long. It wasn't that we were continuing to try tank, just any of the other guys we tried to bring in weren't exactly great additions and ended up playing too many minutes for their skill set.

 

[WarriorofTime]

View attachment 879229

7 drafts after Matthews with nothing to show for it.
Painful.

The Leafs actually had a pretty successful tank/collect high pick cycle with Reilly (5th), Nylander (8th) Marner (4th), Matthews (1st) all being pretty high picks and getting competitive off that. Kyle Dubas just completely botched the implementation after that.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Drop Bennett. Add Verhaeghe.

Drop Bennett over Lundell? Surely you jest.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Kyle Dubas just completely botched the implementation after that.

True.

He did pretty well for a rookie GM.