Blue Jays Discussion: The trade deadline has passed. Time to see what this can do (most acquisitions expected to be present Thursday in Minnesota)

[Blitzkrug]

Adding onto the above with the fact that all the moves they made between the end of '15 and getting KO'd by Cleveland in '16 (Happ over Price, signing Saunders, not giving long term deals to Bautsita/Edwin, Liriano trade) were bang on.

Then it was very clearly time for a rebuild since that team was old and you never build a core through free agency and that's what happened. The real shame was Rogers still wanted to contend which put them in limbo for an extra season.

The only one I don't agree with there is Edwin. After he left Toronto he had two solid seasons for Cleveland and then another solid one with the Mariners. Bringing him back might have actually given them an extra bump since would have almost assuredly been dealt at the deadline in probably '17. I think I'm just a bit upset he didn't get the sendoff that Bautista did.

Bautista was clearly cooked by time he was done here. Now retire officially so I can have you in the Show.

 

[canucksfan]

Not me. I’m happy with everything they’ve done for the most part with the major exception being keeping montoyo around way way too long. I think they’ll need to move a core piece in the off season to send a clear message. One of Gurriel or Teo is who I would expect to go

I agree with that. Both will be FAs soon and keeping them to a big contract wouldn't be smart. Move Springer over to one of the corners and get a CF.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Teo's only under team control for this year and 2023 as well. Gurriel is under team control until 2025 and I think for what he brings relative to his price point, you hold on to him.

Teo I feel like is a prime candidate to get overpaid by somebody on the market.

 

[phillipmike]

Teo's only under team control for this year and 2023 as well. Gurriel is under team control until 2025 and I think for what he brings relative to his price point, you hold on to him.

Teo I feel like is a prime candidate to get overpaid by somebody on the market.

Gurriel is a free agent at the end of next season too with Teo.

 

[Ale Brew]

The only one I don't agree with there is Edwin. After he left Toronto he had two solid seasons for Cleveland and then another solid one with the Mariners. Bringing him back might have actually given them an extra bump since would have almost assuredly been dealt at the deadline in probably '17. I think I'm just a bit upset he didn't get the sendoff that Bautista did.

Bautista was clearly cooked by time he was done here. Now retire officially so I can have you in the Show.

They did offer Edwin a deal, in fact a better deal than he ended up getting. They just weren’t willing to wait on him and pivoted quickly to Morales (yuck).

 

[GoonieFace]

The Leafs and the Jays have won the same number of playoff rounds under their respective management groups, so that's an odd sentence.

Comparing playoffs in baseball and hockey is odd but carry on

 

[Blitzkrug]

Counterpoint: this current Blue Jays group has a grand total of one playoff appearance to the Leafs current group having 7 consecutive. The Jays haven't had legit expectations until this year. The Leafs have been expected to do something since 2016 and have failed to even get out of the first round.

This revisionism is getting old. No one expected the Jays to contend last season because there was still thought to be holes on the roster that needed to be dealt with. Somehow, overachieving in what was supposed to be another build year means Shatkins sucks for...something?

If you're realistic, the Jays haven't had real expectations until this year. Not last year, certainly not 2020 either.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Next 20 games strength of schedule for wildcard bubble teams.

Seattle has a very soft upcoming schedule.

View attachment 576372

Yeah that's not great news for the Jays, who are about to play 3 teams that they've struggled with so far. Seattle just took 2 series from the Yanks and they'll get Rodriguez back this weekend.

Side note: I see the Angels everywhere. They're gonna challenge the Tigers and A's for last place in the AL

 

[phillipmike]

 

[dredeye]

Teo's only under team control for this year and 2023 as well. Gurriel is under team control until 2025 and I think for what he brings relative to his price point, you hold on to him.

Teo I feel like is a prime candidate to get overpaid by somebody on the market.

I think they are both free agents after next season.

 

[canucksfan]

I think they are both free agents after next season.

Says here he is a free agent in 2025. Lourdes Gurriel Jr..

 

[Canada4Gold]

Why are we still talking about hockey?

Says here he is a free agent in 2025. Lourdes Gurriel Jr..

Apparently it was a part of his contract with the Jays that once it’s over he’s a free agent. One of the Jays media guys tweeted it out.

How that works I’m not sure. I guess the Jays put it in writing they’d non tender him once his contract expires?

 

[canucksfan]

Why are we still talking about hockey?



Apparently it was a part of his contract with the Jays that once it’s over he’s a free agent. One of the Jays media guys tweeted it out.

How that works I’m not sure. I guess the Jays put it in writing they’d non tender him once his contract expires?

Yes, I vaguely remember that now. TBH I wouldn't sign either Teo or Lourdes to a long-term contract unless the value is really good. I don't think Lourdes will age well.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Kurtz]

Comparing playoffs in baseball and hockey is odd but carry on

Well then how are you defining success, regular season record? Because Dubas has an edge there as well.

 

[Kurtz]

Jays won 2 rounds in 2016, that's 2 more than Dubas.

2016 was AA's team (did it have any Shapkins acquisitions of note?), but fair enough, technically that meets the criteria.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Well then how are you defining success, regular season record? Because Dubas has an edge there as well.

Raps and Jays are well ahead of the Leafs in how they are being ran. Dubas did nothing in the off-season to improve his team.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Please, for the love of God, don't make me wade through any more pages of analysis on Dubas' performance. Please. This thread is supposed to be our escape.

Just wanted to stop in and say Bo's approach has looked a lot more like last season lately. I know we're bias by his sudden surge in production, but to my eye, his at bats themselves also look better. Bat seems faster, and his aggressive approach feels more more defensive of the plate. Was killing me earlier this year to see him not defend the plate on borderline pitches.

Good stuff Bo.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

Please, for the love of God, don't make me wade through any more pages of analysis on Dubas' performance. Please. This thread is supposed to be our escape.

Just wanted to stop in and say Bo's approach has looked a lot more like last season lately. I know we're bias by his sudden surge in production, but to my eye, his at bats themselves also look better. Bat seems faster, and his aggressive approach feels more more defensive of the plate. Was killing me earlier this year to see him not defend the plate on borderline pitches.

Good stuff Bo.

Positivity? I'm not sure that's allowed in this thread.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Please, for the love of God, don't make me wade through any more pages of analysis on Dubas' performance. Please. This thread is supposed to be our escape.

Just wanted to stop in and say Bo's approach has looked a lot more like last season lately. I know we're bias by his sudden surge in production, but to my eye, his at bats themselves also look better. Bat seems faster, and his aggressive approach feels more more defensive of the plate. Was killing me earlier this year to see him not defend the plate on borderline pitches.

Good stuff Bo.

I agree. I think a guy like Bo Bichette can step it up in the playoffs and I can't wait to see it. We ARE playoff bound and I don't care what some negative folk are saying just for the sake of it.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

The Jays offensive bats are playoff material, but the pitching mostly imo bullpen is not playoff material. People can say they leave RISP too much, but what do you expect them to score 10 runs every game? If they make it into the playoffs you're not going to be winning games by 10 runs all the time, most likely they're going to be tight scoring games that will rely heavily on bullpen arms to keep the games close yet the reality is the Jays bullpen is crap and can't be trusted in close games. It sucks but this management choked at the deadline to strengthen their weakest area, again Jays bats can score runs but if the bullpen continues to not be able to shut the other teams down they won't make the playoffs, and that's not trying to be negative that's being honest.

 

[Suntouchable13]

The Jays offensive bats are playoff material, but the pitching mostly imo bullpen is not playoff material. People can say they leave RISP too much, but what do you expect them to score 10 runs every game? If they make it into the playoffs you're not going to be winning games by 10 runs all the time, most likely they're going to be tight scoring games that will rely heavily on bullpen arms to keep the games close yet the reality is the Jays bullpen is crap and can't be trusted in close games. It sucks but this management choked at the deadline to strengthen their weakest area, again Jays bats can score runs but if the bullpen continues to not be able to shut the other teams down they won't make the playoffs, and that's not trying to be negative that's being honest.

They have held plenty of leads. When the team wasn’t scoring for shit in April and May, who kept all those one run leads?

 

[canucksfan]

Will the Guardians have any unvaccinated players?

Quickly answered my own question looks like it is just Karinchak .

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

They have held plenty of leads. When the team wasn’t scoring for shit in April and May, who kept all those one run leads?

Definitely wasn't due to over powering bullpens that's for sure, I thought it was more in July they struggled to score more hence the losses pilled up a bit because the bullpen isn't strong enough. Do the jays have 1 arm that can throw a 100mph or over? Seeing a bunch of teams with closers who throw 100-103mph and they seem to be doing well... Osuna wasn't a hard thrower, Giles wasn't a hard thrower, Romano isn't a hard thrower, they throw around 95-96, the Jays haven't really had a dominant closer which they need imo to be a contender, that's just the closer I'm talking about and that's not even their worst spot in the bullpen

 

[phillipmike]

2016 was AA's team (did it have any Shapkins acquisitions of note?), but fair enough, technically that meets the criteria.

In 2016, your 2nd best starter who was 6th in Cy Young voting was Happ and Estrada was 3rd in bWAR on your staff - behind Sanchez and ahead of Stroman and Dickey. Your 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th best relievers were Benoit, Biagini, Grilli and Liriano - behind Osuna but ahead of Cecil. All were signed or traded for under Shapiro.

If 2016 is AA’s team then 2018-19 is Lou’s team as the only regulars Dubas brought in was Tavares and Muzzin. And in 2019-20 I would say the same as he made the team slightly worse or the same if you’re generous by bringing in Kerfoot, Spezza, Mikheyev, Barrie, and Ceci to replace Kadri, Brown, Marleau, Gardiner, Hainsey and Zaitsev. And then he had to correct his original mistake of letting McElhinney go for nothing and getting Campbell which ended up working out better in the long run but still hurt the Leafs early in that season.

By this logic, Dubas shouldn’t get “credit” for most of his teams’s “success” as he only brought in 1 core player; Tavares.