The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[WeThreeKings]

Trades with important pieces going the other way, no (unless it's a once in a lifetime opportunity, a miracle). That's what my whole reply was about. Go back a few replies in our conversation and you already have my answer for FA. I even answered "sure you do it", so you can forgoe trying to corner me with a ridiculous reduction. I already answered for FA and despite that, you try this.

I bit of continuity in logic here. I'm talking about staking talent, herego I'm concentrating mainly on growing our asset base. Do FA add to an asset base? Yes. Do trades like Monahan and Laine add to an asset base? They sure do.

I'm precisely talking about not TRADING important pieces TOO EARLY, and making sure to have a strong enough asset base so that when we do trade important pieces, it will be to make us contenders.

Trading away important pieces to reach the playoffs is exactly how you end-up either a perpetual rebuild or perpetual bubble team.

I think this post more clearly explains your point; thanks for writing it.

 

[LaP]

If you look at the 1st rd picks and the players added using 1sts, they’re batting around .500.

I know there’s still room for growth, rehab, and development …. BUT, if I had a magic do-over button right now, I undo these:

- draft Reinbacher
- trade for Dach
- trade for Newhook
- draft Mesar

Future still bright, but they are whiffs that are drawing things out a little longer than expected.

Who do you draft instead of Mesar?

 

[Sorinth]

Trades with important pieces going the other way, no (unless it's a once in a lifetime opportunity, a miracle). That's what my whole reply was about. Go back a few replies in our conversation and you already have my answer for FA. I even answered "sure you do it", so you can forgoe trying to corner me with a ridiculous reduction. I already answered for FA and despite that, you try this.

I'm not trying to corner you, I was genuinely trying to understand your position. And honestly if your going to react like this I'm not sure it's worth the bother.

I bit of continuity in logic here. I'm talking about staking talent, herego I'm concentrating mainly on growing our asset base. Do FA add to an asset base? Yes. Do trades like Monahan and Laine add to an asset base? They sure do.

I'm precisely talking about not TRADING important pieces TOO EARLY, and making sure to have a strong enough asset base so that when we do trade important pieces, it will be to make us contenders.

Trading away important pieces to reach the playoffs is exactly how you end-up either a perpetual rebuild or perpetual bubble team.

Does a trade like Dach add to our asset base? Because if he reaches his potential then it should clearly be yes, even though we traded what some might consider an important piece and did it early in the rebuild.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'm not trying to corner you, I was genuinely trying to understand your position. And honestly if your going to react like this I'm not sure it's worth the bother.

Does a trade like Dach add to our asset base? Because if he reaches his potential then it should clearly be yes, even though we traded what some might consider an important piece and did it early in the rebuild.

No it does not. It's a sideway move to fill a position of need from a position of strenght (we had many lefties coming up, including Guhle, Struble and Jackeye), no matter if you think Romanov was an important piece or not. Your total value doesn't budge.

I don't mind sideway moves if they make sense and if they aren't too much of a gamble.

 

[ReHabs]

IMO the problems with using the term "asset base" to discuss a hockey team is that at some point you get far too abstract and miss the forest for the trees. I'm guilty of this too when obsessing with stats and trends (thankfully not "advanced stats").

It's sports: most of the discussions should be around the act of performing the sport and who is best fit for what role and if a certain player should do X or Y to bring us more success.

Even a rebuild is about building a team, the team is composed of players, the players (if they're young) will be on upward trajectories. That's where I get caught up on the current season... they seem to be on the verge of beginning to turn the corner but until recently the performances of the players was extremely disappointing to me.

When the time comes to trade and make decisions about cap allocation, it'll be centred on what the GM thinks will improve the team as he sees it at that time. This is what bewildered me about Bergevin, he said centremen were not available... they were, they were just too expensive for his tastes... but what was the alternative? He figured squandering playoff runs by relying on Desharnais-Plekanec was better than trading first round picks for centremen and top6 players. It was an absurd miscalculation.

 

[Sorinth]

No it does not. It's a sideway move to fill a position of need from a position of strenght (we had many lefties coming up, including Guhle, Struble and Jackeye), no matter if you think Romanov was an important piece or not. Your total value doesn't budge.

I don't mind sideway moves if they make sense and if they aren't too much of a gamble.

But that's just it, if Dach does reach his potential then the "total value" has changed dramatically. A 1B center which is probably Dach's potential is a lot more valuable then a #4-5 D.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

But that's just it, if Dach does reach his potential then the "total value" has changed dramatically. A 1B center which is probably Dach's potential is a lot more valuable then a #4-5 D.

So you're precluding more potential for Dach, but not Romanov? They are one year apart in age and dmen take more time. For all you know Romy could be #2-3 in two years time while Dach never goes over the hump.

At the time of the trade, it was a sideway move, pure and simple. Both players still had much potential and we had several of what Romy is (LD) and few of what Dach is (C).

 

[CHwest]

So you're precluding more potential for Dach, but not Romanov? They are one year apart in age and dmen take more time. For all you know Romy could be #2-3 in two years time while Dach never goes over the hump.

At the time of the trade, it was a sideway move, pure and simple. Both players still had much potential and we had several of what Romy is (LD) and few of what Dach is (C).

It was not a sideways move, they needed a center and projected him to be it.

 

[Sorinth]

So you're precluding more potential for Dach, but not Romanov? They are one year apart in age and dmen take more time. For all you know Romy could be #2-3 in two years time while Dach never goes over the hump.

At the time of the trade, it was a sideway move, pure and simple. Both players still had much potential and we had several of what Romy is (LD) and few of what Dach is (C).

Not at all if Dach busts and Romanov progresses we would have lost value on that trade. That's the whole point I'm making, the value is almost certainly going to change. And let's not pretend that just because both guys are close in age and we're essentially traded for each other that must mean they have the exact same value/potential. Does Jordan Harris have just as much potential as Patrick Laine, after all it's only 2 year age difference. Or what about the Newhook trade, bigger age difference but still very much a potential for potential type of trade. Is it sideways too?