The Soviets: "Bob Gainey is the best player in the world". Myth or...

[VMBM]

Sorry for the clumsy title. Anyway, does anyone know the story behind this? Did the Soviets ever really hail Gainey as the best player in the world, or did something get lost in translation? Was it just a case of Russian overpoliteness that was taken as gospel and then repeated and repeated, until it became a part of hockey history?

There are other more or less outrageous things the Soviets supposedly said like "Gerry Cheevers is the best goalie we have faced in international competition" and "Winnipeg Jets is the best club team we have ever played against". I very much doubt they really thought that Cheevers was better than Jiri Holecek (Cheesy wasn't THAT good in the '74 WHA Series). And maybe they meant that the Jets were the best team in WHA, or the best club team the SOVIET NATIONAL TEAM had faced, but better than the Habs? C'mon.

 

[tommygunn]

It is a very interesting comment. Supposedly, Tikhonov said it after watching the '79 Cup Finals. Gainey won the Conn Smythe so I guess he wasn't far off by proclaiming him the best in the world at the time, but I've often wondered what his own players felt about him saying that.

 

[Canadiens Fan]

Sorry for the clumsy title. Anyway, does anyone know the story behind this? Did the Soviets ever really hail Gainey as the best player in the world, or did something get lost in translation? Was it just a case of Russian overpoliteness that was taken as gospel and then repeated and repeated, until it became a part of hockey history?

There are other more or less outrageous things the Soviets supposedly said like "Gerry Cheevers is the best goalie we have faced in international competition" and "Winnipeg Jets is the best club team we have ever played against". I very much doubt they really thought that Cheevers was better than Jiri Holecek (Cheesy wasn't THAT good in the '74 WHA Series). And maybe they meant that the Jets were the best team in WHA, or the best club team the SOVIET NATIONAL TEAM had faced, but better than the Habs? C'mon.

The quote about Cheevers comes from Tretiak's book I believe, and it pertained just to Canadian goalies he had faced (been a long time since I read his book).

I always had been under the impression that the famous quote about Gainey was uttered after the Canadiens/Central Red Army game on December 31st, 1979 (a game that seems to have been completely forgotten) in which Gainey starred.

 

[russianrocket24]

As far as I remember Tikhonov called Gainey "the most complete player" he ever saw. In my eyes that means a lot from a coach who was supposed to praise players trained by himself.

 

[tommygunn]

I always had been under the impression that the famous quote about Gainey was uttered after the Canadiens/Central Red Army game on December 31st, 1979 (a game that seems to have been completely forgotten) in which Gainey starred.

With Gainey battling his way to the Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP in the spring of 1979, legendary Russian coach Viktor Tikhonov proclaimed Gainey to be the most complete player on the planet. To this day, Gainey owes not one but two coaches for that celebrated sound bite.

“If it wasn’t for Don Cherry and the Bruins getting us that power play and if Guy Lafleur doesn’t score that goal, we would have never even reached the Stanley Cup finals in 1979. And I would have never gotten that quote from Tikhonov,†smiled Gainey. “I’ve sure gotten a lot of mileage from that quote. I should really give Don a call to thank him.â€

http://canadiens.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=336696&page=NewsPage&service=page#Scene_1

 

[VMBM]

I finally did a little researching myself, and yeah, it apparently was Tikhonov, and he seemed to use words like "best all-around player" or "technically the world's best player". Of course, if Tikhonov = the Soviets and best all-around player = best player, then it is not a myth .

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

As far as I remember Tikhonov called Gainey "the most complete player" he ever saw. In my eyes that means a lot from a coach who was supposed to praise players trained by himself.

To be honest, from that era, I'd rate Trottier, Potvin and Clarke as much more complete players than Gainey. Gainey might have been better defensively by a bit, but offensively those guys killed him. From the Habs end, I'd rate Jacques Lemaire and Robinson as a more complete players than Gainey in 1979. I respect Tikhonov's opinion, but I really don't see the basis for it. I really have to wonder whether something was lost in the translation.

 

[VMBM]

The quote about Cheevers comes from Tretiak's book I believe, and it pertained just to Canadian goalies he had faced (been a long time since I read his book).

I remember that comment from the Canadian documentary about the WHA Summit series (which is part of the WHA vs. USSR DVD set), and I think it said something like "the Soviet players called Cheevers the best goalie they've faced in international competition".

I've also read Tretiak's book (or at least one of them?), and yes, I think he called Cheevers "only" the best CANADIAN goalie he ever played against.

 

[Canadiens Fan]

To be honest, from that era, I'd rate Trottier, Potvin and Clarke as much more complete players than Gainey. Gainey might have been better defensively by a bit, but offensively those guys killed him. From the Habs end, I'd rate Jacques Lemaire and Robinson as a more complete players than Gainey in 1979. I respect Tikhonov's opinion, but I really don't see the basis for it. I really have to wonder whether something was lost in the translation.

After what happened in 1972 and beyond I don't think you would have gotten many compliments from Tikhonov (or many other people in Soviet hockey) about Bobby Clarke.

Keep in mind that when Tikhonov made the statement, that Gainey was having his greatest playoff, 16 games - 16 points, and with the Habs winning their fourth consecutive Stanley Cup there was a lot of attention focused on them.

 

[Riffo*]

Even if they did say it, everyone knows it's false. How many times has Gretzky called a player the best or most skilled player he's ever played with ?

 

[mooseOAK*]

People actually started to believe it after the Russians said it.

 

[greatgazoo]

How good was Gainey?

He was so good that the league had to create an award to honour complete forwards like him!

 

[seventieslord]

I'm not sure if it's a myth that the Russians said that. They probably did. He might have had a fantastic few games against them. As far as him ever being the best player in the world, that would be a myth. He's painfully overrated.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

After what happened in 1972 and beyond I don't think you would have gotten many compliments from Tikhonov (or many other people in Soviet hockey) about Bobby Clarke.

Keep in mind that when Tikhonov made the statement, that Gainey was having his greatest playoff, 16 games - 16 points, and with the Habs winning their fourth consecutive Stanley Cup there was a lot of attention focused on them.

How good was Gainey?

He was so good that the league had to create an award to honour complete forwards like him!

Hey, Gainey was really good at what he did. Maybe the best checking line player I've seen. But in terms of being the best player in the world or the most complete, he isn't close to guys like Trots, Clarke, Potvin or Robinson of that era. I saw them all and I was a fan of Gainey, but it would be like saying Jeri Lehtinen is better or a more complete player than Peter Forsberg or Nik Lidstrom at their peaks.

 

[Trottier]

To be honest, from that era, I'd rate Trottier, Potvin and Clarke as much more complete players than Gainey.

Interestingly enough, Former Isles GM and HOFer Bill Torrey tells the following story: circa 1979, the Isles play (and lose) a close game to the Soviet team in one of those mid-season contests that were commonplace in that time period. Walking down a corridor immediately after the game, lengedary Habs coach Toe Blake, unprovoked, turns to Torrey and says "I've seen a lot great players in my day, but none as complete as #19 on your team."

The Soviets can have Gainey, a superb, special player in his own right.

I'll go with Blake's pick.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Interestingly enough, Former Isles GM and HOFer Bill Torrey tells the following story: circa 1979, the Isles play (and lose) a close game to the Soviet team in one of those mid-season contests that were commonplace in that time period. Walking down a corridor immediately after the game, lengedary Habs coach Toe Blake, unprovoked, turns to Torrey and says "I've seen a lot great players in my day, but none as complete as #19 on your team."

The Soviets can have Gainey, a superb, special player in his own right.

I'll go with Blake's pick.

On this matter, Blake is right on the money. I've seen few forwards who were as good at everything as Trottier was. He wasn't the best forward I've seen, but certainly amongst the most complete I've seen. He's right there with guys like Clarke, Messier and Forsberg in terms of great complete hockey players I've seen.

Great compliment to Trottier, considering Blake coached against Gordie Howe, Ted Lindsay, Dave Keon and Stan Mikita at their best, and they would likely be amongst the most complete forwards of their day.

 

[arrbez]

It's funny how one-dimensional offensive aces are incomplete, but one-dimensional defensive aces are complete players.

I don't doubt that the Russian coach said it about Gainey, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near true.

 

[tommygunn]

Just googling a bit and I'm finding a lot of sources that claim it was actually Tarasov who said that about Gainey..

 

[dcinroc]

It's funny how one-dimensional offensive aces are incomplete, but one-dimensional defensive aces are complete players.

I don't doubt that the Russian coach said it about Gainey, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near true.

Tikhonov probably based his comment on just a handful of games. Even now, when I go back and watch old Canadiens' games, I expect Gainey to score. He was aggressive around the net. Strong as a bull. Excellent forechecker and positioned himself well. Great skater...just had hands of stone. The dude had so many missed opportunities to put the puck in the net it's ridiculous.

If Gainey had had Steve Shutt's hands, then he'd probably among the greatest to ever play.

 

[Sweety]

New Years Eve 1979

Sweeties: Was that 4-2 Habs and Gainey scored an important goal that hit a falling defenceman and sailed in? Or was that a later? NYE 1982 Habs lost 6-1 to Tretiak who got a long ovation at the end at the Forum.

Sweety

 

[Big Phil]

Funny, I always thought it was during the '79 Challenge Cup that the quote came from. Yes, I believe it WAS Tarasov, not Tikhonov, that said it.

But either way, while the comment could have been taken out of context Gainey might have played the game well but there are at least 10 guys in 1979 - Gainey's peak - that I would have had on my team over Gainey. Maybe even 15 players. Nothing against Gainey, but he's gotten a lot of love for that

 

[tommygunn]

When reflecting on the Habs winning 4 straight Stanley Cups in the 70's, (a dynasty, considered one of the greatest teams ever) Scotty Bowman said that the most valuable player during those years was Bob Gainey.

"Bob's contribution to the game was that he proved once and for all that a forward could be a genuine star without scoring a lot."
-Ken Dryden

"Gainey became a star despite never being a flashy scorer. His name appeared in the game summary far less frequently than most of his teammates, but without him the Habs quite possibly wouldn't have won those Cups."
-legendsofhockey.net

When Denis Potvin was asked about great players he mentioned Gainey before Lafleur:
"He was the guy who made Montreal really hard for me to play," said Potvin. "He hurried you. If you did not turn in time and really hustle after the puck and get rid of it right away, he planted you. Hell, he planted you even if you did make the play. After a few shifts, I'd be throwing the puck away against a Lambert or a Risebrough too. He took me off my game and made me play too quickly against Montreal. I don't think I played nearly as well at a Bob Gainey tempo as I did when I controlled the pace of the game."