The shift to BLuc

[LAKings88]

I have thought about posting this thread for awhile.

This isn't really a props to BLuc just trying to remember events correctly.

(p.s. I do think they deserve some props)

The last year of Lombardi has always come to my mind with much of the discussion of BLuc over the years.

I feel like they were a bit criminalized as sneaks and back stabbers during that time. I am no insider and I don't know if people on this board had access to info I didn't or if they can't really say all they knew at the time. Seems like there was an air of "if you only knew" these guys going on. Maybe I'm wrong tho.

I just wonder if it was more of DL just losing the plot than a hostile takeover situation.

That was the year or close to it that DL put a horrific Olympic (World Cup?) team together for the US. It showed how out of touch he was with the changing speed and trends of the game.

I think many were also clamoring for more youth to be inserted and speed. It's kind of funny now (He was a top prospect then), but that whole situation with Jordan Weal has stuck in my mind too.

If I remember correctly, Sutter just refused to play him. Sat him when his parents came out to LA to watch him. In and of itself that happens in the NHL. But I think it was a symptom of a lack to conform to the changes that were taking place across the league. It seemed to me that a split in philosophy was happening in management around this time. Without any inside knowledge and being completely on the outside and with my middle aged faulty memory grinding its gears, I feel like I remember Blake and Luc having comments about inserting more youth and speed. Am I wrong here?

Ultimately I think Lombardi and Sutter know that it takes a heavy team to get through the playoffs. I just think they couldn't adjust to a heavy (fast) team. I cant remember if it was a Sutter team or more likely the Stevens year, but Tampa kicked their ass and I thought to myself LA was nowhere close to that team's speed.

I have a feeling Blake and Luc were more willing to read the tea leaves at the time. I think they have proven that in there shaping of the current team over the past few years. I do think it took a minute for them to sort it out once they inherited the team. I think they had some allegiance to the old core and tried to keep it going. That first year with Stevens wasn't bad but again a faster and deeper Vegas team swept. They sign Kovy thinking a boosted PP would be a factor the following year but it back fired in their faces. On cam Desjardins and the tank.

Blake and Luc have had misfires for sure but I think they knew the team had stagnated and needed to get faster. They stockpiled some draft capital and made some savy trades to lead them to this current team. Blake seems to act on rectifying his mistakes sooner than later which I honestly am grateful for.

Anyone else have thoughts on this topic or can provide more filler for the gaps I'd be much appreciated.

Click to read more...

 

[FSL KINGS]

Stevens was coach during the Tampa beat down. It seemed like they wanted more up tempo & after the beat down Stevens went into defensive shell hockey.

Don't remember much of the WD time. Mostly blocking that out.

Think organization wanted Sutter gone & DL wasn't ok with that. There was the trashcan incident.

Lucic trade got DL back to the playoffs, but then led to a rebuild.

DL left Kessel off the American team.

Brown demoted, played horrifically, then recovered once Sutter was gone.

Blake stepped on a few cow patties early. Always hated the Toffoli trade, but the 2nd round pick was traded to move up to pick Faber so he recovered a bit there.

Like where Blake has the team now. Gavrikov was a good pickup, but he got lucky AZ didn't bite on the Chychrun trade & that time Fox thought Blake was looking at Risto.

 

[LAKings88]

Stevens was coach during the Tampa beat down. It seemed like they wanted more up tempo & after the beat down Stevens went into defensive shell hockey.

Don't remember much of the WD time. Mostly blocking that out.

Think organization wanted Sutter gone & DL wasn't ok with that. There was the trashcan incident.

Lucic trade got DL back to the playoffs, but then led to a rebuild.

DL left Kessel off the American team.

Brown demoted, played horrifically, then recovered once Sutter was gone.

Blake stepped on a few cow patties early. Always hated the Toffoli trade, but the 2nd round pick was traded to move up to pick Faber so he recovered a bit there.

Like where Blake has the team now. Gavrikov was a good pickup, but he got lucky AZ didn't bite on the Chychrun trade & that time Fox thought Blake was looking at Risto.

It was Stevens ty. I forgot about Kessel. The Brown stuff sucked.

 

[King'sPawn]

Just to throw a couple things out there:

I don't know how we can say DL "lost the plot" when Blake went with the same roster and staff minus Sutter. DL didn't want to part with his guy, like Blake doesn't with McLellan.

I don't remember Weal being sat when his parents came (though I concede it's possible). Weal simply wasn't a good fit for what DL and Sutter built. He needed open ice - he lacked the skill to hit effectively, and with his small stature, struggled with body positioning. It didn't mesh well with the hard forechecking, war-of-attrition approach.

I agree Blake and McLellan deserve props for building a team with a recipe that can win with the roster in its current state (although it took some time to implement things we were clamoring for). I'm just at the point that anything short of winning a playoff round isn't enough.

 

[rajuabju]

No GM, in any sports league, in any business, in life in general, is perfect, and there are things to nitpick always. DL and a few of his early moves were headscratchers. Same with Blake. It took each a while to realize what they had, what they didnt have, and where they needed to make moves to improve, and they both did so. Some worked out brilliantly, and some didnt.

Overall, they both were positives than negatives.

GM's, and Coaches all have shelf lives. I really dont know why, but thats just the way it is in all sports. Maybe they lose passion, maybe they get too comfortable, maybe they run things a certain way and the game evolves and they cant adjust, maybe its a combo of 20 other things.

Just yesterday in a different thread, I was talking about how when we brought back Lewis this year, I thought Blake had lost his mind and it was a terrible move, and would prevent one of the kids from getting ice time, etc. I was 100% wrong. Lewis has been an absolutely stabilizing force on our bottom 6, mentoring and teaching how to play responsible defense, and its no accident our PK is top3 suddenly.

Having hindsight in what should or shouldnt have been done... Easy to hate on bad moves. It's easy for everyone on the outside to have an opinion on what could have been done better.

For now, I'm generally enjoying what Blake and Luc and TMac have put together, because its starting to work and payoff, just like it did with DL and Sutter.

 

[Lt Dan]

This is a great discussion so far. Hopefully I don't f*** it up. Lol


The first thing I want to add is that everyone has bosses. We all know that TL was a loudmouth and absolutely meddled. Just because Beckermam is more quiet doesn't mean that he isn't giving his two, three or even four cents.

So with DL, I am pretty sure that the marching order was to win another cup. Unfortunately, the org-an-eye-zation was never able to recover from losing Voynov. Every move made after 2015 was ultimately futile, but we would also all be screaming if he didn't make the moves.

I think with RB, the marching order was to see what we have and see of a magic bullet or two could make the difference (Kovalchuk). That obviously didn't work and I think he was then either told or allowed to somewhat tear is down.

It took DL four seasons to make the playoffs and six seasons to win a cup almost completely rebuilding the roster that he inherited. He really only kept Brown (Kopitar and Quick hasn't played yet) he was gm for 11 seasons and won 2 cups

For comparison, RB is in his seventh season as GM.

 

[King'sPawn]

This is a great discussion so far. Hopefully I don't f*** it up. Lol

 

[LAKings88]

Just to throw a couple things out there:

I don't know how we can say DL "lost the plot" when Blake went with the same roster and staff minus Sutter. DL didn't want to part with his guy, like Blake doesn't with McLellan.

I don't remember Weal being sat when his parents came (though I concede it's possible). Weal simply wasn't a good fit for what DL and Sutter built. He needed open ice - he lacked the skill to hit effectively, and with his small stature, struggled with body positioning. It didn't mesh well with the hard forechecking, war-of-attrition approach.

I agree Blake and McLellan deserve props for building a team with a recipe that can win with the roster in its current state (although it took some time to implement things we were clamoring for). I'm just at the point that anything short of winning a playoff round isn't enough.

I think one of the telling moves early on for me was trading Pearson for Hagelin who was known for his speed.

LA came off one of there best seasons and fizzled in the first round. I’m not surprised they ran it back again with the core not far removed. Many felt the pp let them down against Vegas which I think led to Kovy.

Just to throw a couple things out there:

I don't know how we can say DL "lost the plot" when Blake went with the same roster and staff minus Sutter. DL didn't want to part with his guy, like Blake doesn't with McLellan.

I don't remember Weal being sat when his parents came (though I concede it's possible). Weal simply wasn't a good fit for what DL and Sutter built. He needed open ice - he lacked the skill to hit effectively, and with his small stature, struggled with body positioning. It didn't mesh well with the hard forechecking, war-of-attrition approach.

I agree Blake and McLellan deserve props for building a team with a recipe that can win with the roster in its current state (although it took some time to implement things we were clamoring for). I'm just at the point that anything short of winning a playoff round isn't enough.

I think one of the telling moves early on for me was trading Pearson for Hagelin who was known for his speed.

LA came off one of there best seasons and fizzled in the first round. I’m not surprised they ran it back again with the core not far removed. Many felt the pp let them down against Vegas which I think led to Kovy.

 

[Lt Dan]

Also this was a great thread idea LAK88. You are a great thread creator man

 

[LAKings88]

I think one of the telling moves early on for me was trading Pearson for Hagelin who was known for his speed.

LA came off one of there best seasons and fizzled in the first round. I’m not surprised they ran it back again with the core not far removed. Many felt the pp let them down against Vegas which I think led to Kovy.


I think one of the telling moves early on for me was trading Pearson for Hagelin who was known for his speed.

LA came off one of there best seasons and fizzled in the first round. I’m not surprised they ran it back again with the core not far removed. Many felt the pp let them down against Vegas which I think led to Kovy.

Phone having all sorts of trouble with the site lately.

 

[BigKing]

None of it matters when Blake simply rolled with DLs roster and made the assistant coach the head coach. The only thing he was going to do differently was not trade first round picks, which he allegedly attempted to do in only his second off-season.

His first two draft picks were a guy with skating/injury concerns and a character guy from the WHL. Might as well have been Lombardi at the draft table.

He's been on the job for a long time now and is doing his thing but he was, IMO, over his head at the time of hire but the time to move on DL presented itself so they took it and then didn't really change anything.

 

[King'sPawn]

I think one of the telling moves early on for me was trading Pearson for Hagelin who was known for his speed.

LA came off one of there best seasons and fizzled in the first round. I’m not surprised they ran it back again with the core not far removed. Many felt the pp let them down against Vegas which I think led to Kovy.


I think one of the telling moves early on for me was trading Pearson for Hagelin who was known for his speed.

LA came off one of there best seasons and fizzled in the first round. I’m not surprised they ran it back again with the core not far removed. Many felt the pp let them down against Vegas which I think led to Kovy.

Phone having all sorts of trouble with the site lately.

Sorry, thought it was just an echo

In all seriousness, trading Pearson was after they took another attempt to make the playoffs with the same core. Pearson was traded during the 2018-19 season - after they were swept by Vegas.

 

[LAKings88]

Sorry, thought it was just an echo

In all seriousness, trading Pearson was after they took another attempt to make the playoffs with the same core. Pearson was traded during the 2018-19 season - after they were swept by Vegas.

You’re right thanks for correcting me on the timeline. I still think they had a philosophical difference but that is me reading into it. Youth for sure I still think they recognized the shift in the league. I think the Vegas loss was maybe the biggest catalyst for change in hindsight.

Thanks KP

 

[Statto]

Stevens was coach during the Tampa beat down. It seemed like they wanted more up tempo & after the beat down Stevens went into defensive shell hockey.

Don't remember much of the WD time. Mostly blocking that out.

Think organization wanted Sutter gone & DL wasn't ok with that. There was the trashcan incident.

Lucic trade got DL back to the playoffs, but then led to a rebuild.

DL left Kessel off the American team.

Brown demoted, played horrifically, then recovered once Sutter was gone.

Blake stepped on a few cow patties early. Always hated the Toffoli trade, but the 2nd round pick was traded to move up to pick Faber so he recovered a bit there.

Like where Blake has the team now. Gavrikov was a good pickup, but he got lucky AZ didn't bite on the Chychrun trade & that time Fox thought Blake was looking at Risto.

So what did Blake offer for Chychrun… please include a source that isn’t on the HF or an unsubstantiated ‘source’.

 

[kingsholygrail]

DL needs to hurry up and write his book.

 

[LAKings88]

DL needs to hurry up and write his book.

I think he had an interview with Mayor that was the closest we will get at this point.

 

[Nasti]

I don‘t think there can be any doubt that Blake and Luc had philosophical differences with Lombardi and Sutter. The emphasis on speed and offense makes that clear. Like Lombardi’s first couple of years, Blake took a couple of years to figure things out. I never blasted him for promoting Stevens since that was a promise the organization made to him during Lombardi’s tenure. He clearly wasn’t his guy which was proven with the short leash.

 

[FSL KINGS]

So what did Blake offer for Chychrun… please include a source that isn’t on the HF or an unsubstantiated ‘source’.

What Would Jakob Chychrun Cost the Kings, and Should They Do It?

mayorsmanor.com

Mayor! Ok, he's probably off.
Chychrun went for a 1st & 2X 2nds. The rumored return from Kings was 3X firsts so something like 2X 1sts & Björnfot. Ottawa's first was expected to be lower than the King's & more valuable. Can't find it right now.

The Clarke thing was never real because AZ pulls the trade immediately if Clarke is in it.
The exact cost wasn't the issue with the Chychrun trade.

After being traded to Ottawa, Chychrun gets injured, shocker, & Ottawa misses the playoffs.

Never bought the "top pair" D. Kept seeing him victimized by guys like Kupari & Kaliyev. How can you be an elite defender & losing to the King's 4th line?

This year Ottawa is tied for 3rd worst team with the Ducks & a few points ahead of Sharks & Hawks. They were supposed to take a step forward & start challenging for the playoffs. Chychrun isn't the only issue on Ottawa, but he hasn't help improve things.

A few late firsts & Björnfot wouldn't have been the end of the world to give up. The costs don't matter all that much. The mistake was thinking Chychrun would actually help the defense.

King's are much better off with Gavrikov who is actually good at defending. They still have one of the top offenses in the league & didn't need the expensive fancy D that has a good shot. At 1st + 3rd for Gavrikov & Korpisalo, Chychrun would have still been a bad move.

 

[Trash Panda]

As much as it pains me revisiting that dark time, I gotta take my hat off to the OP, this is a great topic of discussion.

Bravo.

 

[Statto]

What Would Jakob Chychrun Cost the Kings, and Should They Do It?

mayorsmanor.com

Mayor! Ok, he's probably off.
Chychrun went for a 1st & 2X 2nds. The rumored return from Kings was 3X firsts so something like 2X 1sts & Björnfot. Ottawa's first was expected to be lower than the King's & more valuable. Can't find it right now.

The Clarke thing was never real because AZ pulls the trade immediately if Clarke is in it.
The exact cost wasn't the issue with the Chychrun trade.

After being traded to Ottawa, Chychrun gets injured, shocker, & Ottawa misses the playoffs.

Never bought the "top pair" D. Kept seeing him victimized by guys like Kupari & Kaliyev. How can you be an elite defender & losing to the King's 4th line?

This year Ottawa is tied for 3rd worst team with the Ducks & a few points ahead of Sharks & Hawks. They were supposed to take a step forward & start challenging for the playoffs. Chychrun isn't the only issue on Ottawa, but he hasn't help improve things.

A few late firsts & Björnfot wouldn't have been the end of the world to give up. The costs don't matter all that much. The mistake was thinking Chychrun would actually help the defense.

King's are much better off with Gavrikov who is actually good at defending. They still have one of the top offenses in the league & didn't need the expensive fancy D that has a good shot. At 1st + 3rd for Gavrikov & Korpisalo, Chychrun would have still been a bad move.

I’m sure he kicked the tires because not looking into it is negligence but the second any assets were discussed it was never more than speculation and conjecture based on what AZ said they wanted. The price was always OTT and Blake was never going to pay it because he was never worth it.

I agree 100% that Gavrikov was a better deal in every sense. I’d never trade him for Chychrun + and that was before seeing Gavrikov in a Kings shirt

 

[Rorschach]

Anyone else here initially thought when LA made a big trade with Winnipeg, they felt great relief because we had landed Hellebuyck?

 

[chris kontos]

At around that time, mr robitaille stated he wanted more of a "soccer atmosphere" at the then staples center.
I guess i extrapolated this statement to include the team. If that indeed is the vision, i can continue to enjoy regular season results.

 

[JeanBlanc]

What Would Jakob Chychrun Cost the Kings, and Should They Do It?

mayorsmanor.com

Mayor! Ok, he's probably off.
Chychrun went for a 1st & 2X 2nds. The rumored return from Kings was 3X firsts so something like 2X 1sts & Björnfot. Ottawa's first was expected to be lower than the King's & more valuable. Can't find it right now.

The Clarke thing was never real because AZ pulls the trade immediately if Clarke is in it.
The exact cost wasn't the issue with the Chychrun trade.

Maybe you misread the article or are referring to a different one? The article states that the Kings were out because the ask was for Clarke. And that Clarke and Byfield were untouchable.

 

[BigKing]

I don‘t think there can be any doubt that Blake and Luc had philosophical differences with Lombardi and Sutter. The emphasis on speed and offense makes that clear. Like Lombardi’s first couple of years, Blake took a couple of years to figure things out. I never blasted him for promoting Stevens since that was a promise the organization made to him during Lombardi’s tenure. He clearly wasn’t his guy which was proven with the short leash.

I think the philosophical difference was that they wanted Lombardi's titles because it certainly wasn't the roster or the scouting department.

These are former players that still think like former players, although Blake finally showed some iciness with the Quick trade. They would not like playing for Sutter. Blake liked playing for T-Mac. Stevens was the good cop to Sutter's bad cop. Bluc were elite level players that identify with the elite level players on the roster and want to give them what they want to make them happy: just like they wanted when they were players.

They would not want to labor through a rebuild if they were players so they begrudgingly did it only after it was obvious that the goose was cooked. Even then, Blake seemed to potentially leave assets on the table when moving the vets because he wanted to do right by them. You usually get more when you trade legit players within the division but Blake's return on Toffoli and Martinez sucked. The shine is off the Muzzin deal a bit as well with the Bjornfot pick but the Clifford/Campbell deal is salvaging the overall veteran selloff and the byproduct of giving away good players for futures--sucking hard on the ice--led to Byfield and Clarke.

As for emphasis on speed and offense, three of Blake's first four 1st round picks were a slow Vilardi, a character center with questionable offensive upside for a Top 5 pick and Bjornfot who had next-to-zero offensive upside. It's not taking Jonathan Bernier and Trevor Lewis in your first draft but it isn't exactly prioritizing speed either.

I kind of feel that Blake didn't know what the hell he was doing and actually didn't want to deviate too much from Lombardi in a lot of aspects. I think he got his coach, gave him a five year deal right off the hop and then started building the roster with an eye on fitting this system.

Luc said it at the time of the coup de'tat: they had to promote Blake before another team poached him because he would eventually get a GM job. Doesn't mean he was ready to do it but the time was there to use the Sutter issue as a method of forcing DL out as well who, of course, hadn't been doing himself any favors with roster decisions. Blake promptly came in, didn't do shit and then was like "all this team needs is AARP Kovy".

Blake was very fortunate to be given the rope to do a tear down since it took all expectations off of him, allowing him to learn on the job with zero stakes as far as immediate on-ice results go. Maybe this will be a good thing in the end: I hope it turns out to be a fantastic timeline of events since I'm a Kings fan. That said, any retelling of Blake's first couple of seasons that includes having a plan is laughable and another first round exit this season would be a tremendous failure: especially if it involves moving more futures at the trade deadline.

 

[KINGS17]

I think the philosophical difference was that they wanted Lombardi's titles because it certainly wasn't the roster or the scouting department.

These are former players that still think like former players, although Blake finally showed some iciness with the Quick trade. They would not like playing for Sutter. Blake liked playing for T-Mac. Stevens was the good cop to Sutter's bad cop. Bluc were elite level players that identify with the elite level players on the roster and want to give them what they want to make them happy: just like they wanted when they were players.

They would not want to labor through a rebuild if they were players so they begrudgingly did it only after it was obvious that the goose was cooked. Even then, Blake seemed to potentially leave assets on the table when moving the vets because he wanted to do right by them. You usually get more when you trade legit players within the division but Blake's return on Toffoli and Martinez sucked. The shine is off the Muzzin deal a bit as well with the Bjornfot pick but the Clifford/Campbell deal is salvaging the overall veteran selloff and the byproduct of giving away good players for futures--sucking hard on the ice--led to Byfield and Clarke.

As for emphasis on speed and offense, three of Blake's first four 1st round picks were a slow Vilardi, a character center with questionable offensive upside for a Top 5 pick and Bjornfot who had next-to-zero offensive upside. It's not taking Jonathan Bernier and Trevor Lewis in your first draft but it isn't exactly prioritizing speed either.

I kind of feel that Blake didn't know what the hell he was doing and actually didn't want to deviate too much from Lombardi in a lot of aspects. I think he got his coach, gave him a five year deal right off the hop and then started building the roster with an eye on fitting this system.

Luc said it at the time of the coup de'tat: they had to promote Blake before another team poached him because he would eventually get a GM job. Doesn't mean he was ready to do it but the time was there to use the Sutter issue as a method of forcing DL out as well who, of course, hadn't been doing himself any favors with roster decisions. Blake promptly came in, didn't do shit and then was like "all this team needs is AARP Kovy".

Blake was very fortunate to be given the rope to do a tear down since it took all expectations off of him, allowing him to learn on the job with zero stakes as far as immediate on-ice results go. Maybe this will be a good thing in the end: I hope it turns out to be a fantastic timeline of events since I'm a Kings fan. That said, any retelling of Blake's first couple of seasons that includes having a plan is laughable and another first round exit this season would be a tremendous failure: especially if it involves moving more futures at the trade deadline.

I think Dean Lombardi was preparing to do some major surgery on the Kings roster when he was fired. He intimated it was going to happen in his last interview as GM with Bob Miller. BLuc completely stalled that process. The Kings still haven't won a playoff round since 2014.