the reason why the oilers dominated the 80s because of slow skaters

[sawchuk1971]

just saw a playoff series between the wings/oilers circa 1988...

its amazing how the oilers were able to dominate that era...i figured out a theory on why they did...

slow skaters.....

i see in this era u have more fast skaters and able to use that speed to hit players...

seeing the 2019 cup final was an example of that style.....both the blues and bruins were able to apt up the physical hockey by their pure speed...

coming back to the oilers, i can see why gretzky was able to control the line of play without being physically manhandled...u also have to figure of the enforcers such as dave semenko was gretzky's "bodyguard" when things get a little chippy..

those 80s hockey players were very slow skaters....i can see why the oilers had a field day scoring...

if u put the oilers of 1980s into this era, i think they won't be able to dominate...

everyone now can skate compared to gretzky's time...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

well no

but one reason the oilers dominated the 80s is because they had three of the strongest skaters of any era all playing major roles, plus gretzky who while not as fast as the other guys was a magician with his footwork, and jari kurri, who was also a gorgeous skater.

but even if the average skater is much faster now than back then, for reasons beyond the obvious shortening of shift length over the last 30-35 years, there is no team today whose five best players skate as well as coffey, messier, anderson, gretzky, and kurri.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You don't think it didn't occured to anyone before 2015 that skating fast is good? These guys were the best players in the western hemisphere, they were skating as fast as the game would allow.

Today's teams would not be skating this fast if they played with a 2-line pass rule, 90 second shifts, liberal obstruction, and equipment made of natural materials. There's a reason things sped up dramatically circa 1990 and again circa 2006 and again circa 2015.

 

[seventieslord]

So in other words, it's a good formula to have a team that is significantly faster than the other teams in the league? Good idea.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

just saw a playoff series between the wings/oilers circa 1988...

its amazing how the oilers were able to dominate that era...i figured out a theory on why they did...

slow skaters.....

i see in this era u have more fast skaters and able to use that speed to hit players...

seeing the 2019 cup final was an example of that style.....both the blues and bruins were able to apt up the physical hockey by their pure speed...

coming back to the oilers, i can see why gretzky was able to control the line of play without being physically manhandled...u also have to figure of the enforcers such as dave semenko was gretzky's "bodyguard" when things get a little chippy..

those 80s hockey players were very slow skaters....i can see why the oilers had a field day scoring...

if u put the oilers of 1980s into this era, i think they won't be able to dominate...

everyone now can skate compared to gretzky's time...

You don't think it didn't occured to anyone before 2015 that skating fast is good? These guys were the best players in the western hemisphere, they were skating as fast as the game would allow.

Today's teams would not be skating this fast if they played with a 2-line pass rule, 90 second shifts, liberal obstruction, and equipment made of natural materials. There's a reason things sped up dramatically circa 1990 and again circa 2006 and again circa 2015.

For clarification OP, under 2-line offside rules (which was in force from the 40s up until the 2005-06 rules reset), if your team is breaking out of the zone and you pass the puck from inside your blueline to the other side of center, the play is whistled down as an offside (cant remember if the faceoff comes back into the zone too). This forces breakouts to be much more methodical and involves more short passes and lateral movement to get past the defenders.

Once the center red was gone, the game sped up instantly, even though the cast of players in 2004 & 2006 is pretty much the exact same. Among the reasons for this:

-Defencemen can now hit cherry-picking forwards with breakaway passes at the far blueline where they couldnt before, so forwards have an incentive to make a beeline for the other teams zone as soon as their side gets possession.
-Notoriously risk-averse NHL coaches recognized that the removal of the center red meant that they could easily throw the puck into the opponents end, usually by having the defenceman fire the puck forward from their end, and one of their forwards only need get a quick tip on the puck on the other side of center to negate the icing. This also had the unfortunate side-effect of continually creating situations ~2010-2015 where the defence were racing back to retrieve the puck with power forwards following them in to paste them into the boards at full speed.

So in other words, it's a good formula to have a team that is significantly faster than the other teams in the league? Good idea.

Heres a thought experiment:

Whats the fastest skating team in relative terms that underachieved in its era?

 

[The Panther]

This is an amazing breakthrough in my understanding of the Oilers' dynasty.

It was all down to SLOWNESS.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

This is an amazing breakthrough in my understanding of the Oilers' dynasty.

It was all down to SLOWNESS.

In all fairness, wasnt there a quote from somebody who was traded to the 80s Oilers and said their practices were faster than what most teams were used to?

 

[Big Phil]

Just imagine those Oilers these days with no red line and such.

 

[MaxV]

1980s is a post-expansion, pre-internationalization era.

21 teams with vast majority of talent coming from one country, a diluted talent pool.

This isn't a knock on Canadian hockey, certainly it has always been a great program, but you can't build a top international league on a back of one country.

Add to that the fact that this was still a "flop around like a fish out of water" goaltending era and "big, physical hitters" defenders who skated as if on sand, and you have video game numbers.

 

[BraveCanadian]

1980s is a post-expansion, pre-internationalization era.

21 teams with vast majority of talent coming from one country, a diluted talent pool.

This isn't a knock on Canadian hockey, certainly it has always been a great program, but you can't build a top international league on a back of one country.

Add to that the fact that this was still a "flop around like a fish out of water" goaltending era and "big, physical hitters" defenders who skated as if on sand, and you have video game numbers.

Yikes. So many unsubstantiated/misinformed claims in one post.

The number of professional teams in NA actually shrunk heading into the 80s due to the WHA folding. Additionally this is when the baby boom demographic was in full force in the league and more international players were starting to come over. There is a enough evidence to estimate that the talent pool now per team is roughly the same or possibly worse than ~25-30 years ago.

Your disparaging "flop around like a fish out of water" goaltending was mostly due to equipment differences with today and was starting to change by the mid 80s. Goaltenders today could not play the way they do without it.

 

[BraveCanadian]

In all fairness, wasnt there a quote from somebody who was traded to the 80s Oilers and said their practices were faster than what most teams were used to?

True. The Oilers were built on speed and the east-west/European style play of the WHA Jets.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Maybe the more important effect of shortened shifts is the flattening of what it means to be much faster than your opponent. Today, when the slowest guy in the league jumps off the bench, he immediately has a place to, go and then then has two or three more rushes before he heads to the bench. The number of opportunities a faster player is going to have to just blow by them and turn a routine rush into a grade A scoring chance is going to be fairly limited unless the slow gu y has a lapse in decision making and gets caught standing still somewhere. I don't think the difference between Kasperi Kapanen and Luke Schenn skating as hard as they can is nearly as pronounced as the difference between a Glenn Anderson speed burst and Brad Marsh's second consecutive minute on the ice.

It's similar logic to the suffocating dead puck era style of team defense - the Panthers can execute that kind of hockey almost as well as the Red Wings can, but certainly can't tic-tac-toe with the Russian Five, so it's better to play their kind of hockey.

 

[The Panther]

1980s is a post-expansion, pre-internationalization era.

21 teams with vast majority of talent coming from one country, a diluted talent pool.

Completely disagree.

Everything from 1967-68 onward is "post-expansion", of course, but the 1980s is not a particularly expansion-affected, or talent-depleted, period. There were 32 pro-hockey teams in 1975, and there were 21 (a 34%) reduction) from 1979-80 onwards. Coinciding with this reduction was the increase in European and American players.

Notable 1980s Europeans:
Vaclav Nedomansky
Peter Stastny (#2 scorer of the 1980s)
Anton Stastny
Marian Stastny
Rick Lanz
Kent Nilsson
Peter Ihnacak
Petr Klima
Frantisek Musil
Ivan Boldirev
Stefan Persson
Thomas Gradin
Kent-Erik Andersson
Mats Naslund
Bengt-Ake Gustafsson
Patrick Sundstrom
Anders Kallur
Borje Salming
Jorgen Pettersson
Tomas Jonsson
Hakan Loob
Jan Erixson
Ulf Samuelsson
Michael Thelven
Kjell Dahlin
Frederik Olausson
Calle Johansson
Willy Lindstrom
Anders Hedberg
Miroslav Frycer
Tomas Jonsson
Tomas Sandstrom
Petri Skriko
Pelle Eklund
Pelle Lindberg
Jari Kurri (#3 scorer of the 1980s)
Ilkka Sinisalo
Risto Siltanen
Matti Hagman
Kari Eloranta
Esa Tikkanen
Reijo Ruotsalainen
Mikko Makela
Kari Takko
Christian Ruuttu
Uwe Krupp

Notable Americans:
Brian Lawton
Reed Larson
Joe Mullen
Brian Mullen
Brett Hull
Phil Housley
Mike Ramsey
Mark Johnson
Dave Christian
Neal Broten
Aaron Broten
Bob Mason
Mark Pavelich
Joel Otto
Tom Kurvers
Nick Fotiu
Mathieu Schneider
Gordie Roberts
Ken Morrow
Mark Howe
John Vanbiesbrouck
Wayne Presley
Kelly Miller
Al Iafrate
Kevin Hatcher
Jimmy Carson
Chris Nilan
Bob Carpenter
Jack O'Callahan
Phil Bourque
Tom Barrasso
Paul Fenton
Steve Leach
Bob Sweeney
Doug Brown
Gordie Roberts
Chris Chelios
Tom Fergus
Mike O'Connell
Mike Zombo
Ed Olcyzk
Craig Ludwig
Gary Suter
Craig Janney
Scott Young
Jeff Norton
Kevin Stevens
Darren Turcotte
Jeremy Roenick
Mike Modano
Tony Granato

With the exception of the last 6 or 7 Americans listed above, all of these players were active by the mid-1980s, if not much earlier (some in the 1970s). These include many of the best players of the whole era.

Bear in mind that a 21-team League had about 275 fewer jobs available to NHL players than the League of today.

Add to that the fact that this was still a "flop around like a fish out of water" goaltending era and "big, physical hitters" defenders who skated as if on sand, and you have video game numbers.

"Video game number" has become such a cliche for people who weren't there that I think these people are actually starting to believe it.

Scoring in the 1980s, in general, was higher than NHL historical averages but not by huge proportions. Goalies then stopped close to 90% of shots and goalies today (with vastly easier-to-play-in-equipment) stop about 90% of shots.

And you may have noticed that scoring has been increasing in the past few years.

For example, 2019-20's leading scorers (projected a bit to 80 games):
124 - Draisaitl
121 - McDavid
110 - Panarin
109 - Pastrnack
108 - MacKinnon
100 - Kucherov
99 - Marchand
96 - Kane
96 - Matthews
92 - Eichel


...compared to 1986-87:
183 - Gretzky
107 - Kurri
107 - Lemieux
107 - Messier
105 - Gilmour
103 - Ciccarelli
100 - Hawerchuk
96 - Goulet
95 - Bourque
95 - Kerr

shows us that some seasons in the 1980s are very comparable to today's leading scorers at the all-star level.


Point being: You can dislike the 1980s' game as much as you like, but the argument that it was a one-country League or that it was talent-depleted simply doesn't hold water.

(In my own opinion, the League today is slightly more talent-depleted than the late 1980s was, with the ideal "talent-to-teams" ratios being around the 1950s and the late-1980s/early-1990s.)

 

[Thenameless]

if u put the oilers of 1980s into this era, i think they won't be able to dominate...

everyone now can skate compared to gretzky's time...

As long as it's an even playing field (all of those Oilers are born 40 years later and grow up with today's advantages with training, nutrition, and medicine, and they use the same equipment as the players of today), I'm pretty sure the Oilers would replicate what they did in the 80's. They might actually do better if the team is allowed to stay together. It's the modern salary cap that destroys dynasties.

 

[Albatros]

A lot of Europeans that did come over either had a short stay or came on their last legs already, it was never more than a handful that made an impact any given season.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Rick Lanz
Ivan Boldirev

Correction: both grew up and played junior hockey in Canada, so don't really count as European.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

It is true that Glen Sather valued speed, and he continued to add fast skaters to his lineup throughout the years. Even when he was constructing Team Canada for the Canada Cup he in some instances chose players for their speed so Canada could keep up with the Soviets. Bill Torrey and Al Arbour constructed another dynasty team that was faster than most in the league at the time. The Flyers of the mid to late 80s were also pretty fast, but some of the teams that valued speed for a few years in the 80s, like the Rangers and the Whalers, didn't get as far.

 

[tempofound]

The funniest thing about this thread is how the OP willingly admits that he has drawn a conclusion about a decade of hockey from watching one game.

 

[The Panther]

A lot of Europeans that did come over either had a short stay or came on their last legs already, it was never more than a handful that made an impact any given season.

And a lot came over, played their prime years in the NHL, and had remarkable careers.

You'd have to define "made an impact".

You'll notice that this is a bugbear with me. When I was 10 or 11 in 1986-87 and started watching the NHL regularly, a bunch of my favorite players were Europeans. I was also aware of many highly touted American players. Every time I see someone (normally someone not alive then) saying "there were no Europeans or Americans in the 80s", it drives me nuts.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I'm not sure why one should even discuss history with children who can only look at it to notice it was different without ever asking the question as to why it was different.

 

[Albatros]

In 1986/87 of the 61 players that received votes for the seasonal All-Star Team five were European. Four of them were rather high which may create an illusion of wider European success, but indeed after them just one received any consideration.

Jari Kurri 1st RW
Esa Tikkanen 3rd LW
Mats Näslund 4th LW
Ulf Samuelsson 6th D
Fredrik Olausson 24th D

European players that received award votes:

Hart 0/13
Norris 1/15 (Samuelsson 10th)
Selke 2/34 (Erixon 7th, Kurri 10th)
Vezina 0/12
Calder 1/7 (Ruuttu 6th)
Lady Byng 4/24 (Kurri 4th, Näslund 6th, Eklund 9th, Skriko 13th)

 

[authentic]

Completely disagree.

Everything from 1967-68 onward is "post-expansion", of course, but the 1980s is not a particularly expansion-affected, or talent-depleted, period. There were 32 pro-hockey teams in 1975, and there were 21 (a 34%) reduction) from 1979-80 onwards. Coinciding with this reduction was the increase in European and American players.

Notable 1980s Europeans:
Vaclav Nedomansky
Peter Stastny (#2 scorer of the 1980s)
Anton Stastny
Marian Stastny
Rick Lanz
Kent Nilsson
Peter Ihnacak
Petr Klima
Frantisek Musil
Ivan Boldirev
Stefan Persson
Thomas Gradin
Kent-Erik Andersson
Mats Naslund
Bengt-Ake Gustafsson
Patrick Sundstrom
Anders Kallur
Borje Salming
Jorgen Pettersson
Tomas Jonsson
Hakan Loob
Jan Erixson
Ulf Samuelsson
Michael Thelven
Kjell Dahlin
Frederik Olausson
Calle Johansson
Willy Lindstrom
Anders Hedberg
Miroslav Frycer
Tomas Jonsson
Tomas Sandstrom
Petri Skriko
Pelle Eklund
Pelle Lindberg
Jari Kurri (#3 scorer of the 1980s)
Ilkka Sinisalo
Risto Siltanen
Matti Hagman
Kari Eloranta
Esa Tikkanen
Reijo Ruotsalainen
Mikko Makela
Kari Takko
Christian Ruuttu
Uwe Krupp

Notable Americans:
Brian Lawton
Reed Larson
Joe Mullen
Brian Mullen
Brett Hull
Phil Housley
Mike Ramsey
Mark Johnson
Dave Christian
Neal Broten
Aaron Broten
Bob Mason
Mark Pavelich
Joel Otto
Tom Kurvers
Nick Fotiu
Mathieu Schneider
Gordie Roberts
Ken Morrow
Mark Howe
John Vanbiesbrouck
Wayne Presley
Kelly Miller
Al Iafrate
Kevin Hatcher
Jimmy Carson
Chris Nilan
Bob Carpenter
Jack O'Callahan
Phil Bourque
Tom Barrasso
Paul Fenton
Steve Leach
Bob Sweeney
Doug Brown
Gordie Roberts
Chris Chelios
Tom Fergus
Mike O'Connell
Mike Zombo
Ed Olcyzk
Craig Ludwig
Gary Suter
Craig Janney
Scott Young
Jeff Norton
Kevin Stevens
Darren Turcotte
Jeremy Roenick
Mike Modano
Tony Granato

With the exception of the last 6 or 7 Americans listed above, all of these players were active by the mid-1980s, if not much earlier (some in the 1970s). These include many of the best players of the whole era.

Bear in mind that a 21-team League had about 275 fewer jobs available to NHL players than the League of today.

"Video game number" has become such a cliche for people who weren't there that I think these people are actually starting to believe it.

Scoring in the 1980s, in general, was higher than NHL historical averages but not by huge proportions. Goalies then stopped close to 90% of shots and goalies today (with vastly easier-to-play-in-equipment) stop about 90% of shots.

And you may have noticed that scoring has been increasing in the past few years.

For example, 2019-20's leading scorers (projected a bit to 80 games):
124 - Draisaitl
121 - McDavid
110 - Panarin
109 - Pastrnack
108 - MacKinnon
100 - Kucherov
99 - Marchand
96 - Kane
96 - Matthews
92 - Eichel


...compared to 1986-87:
183 - Gretzky
107 - Kurri
107 - Lemieux
107 - Messier
105 - Gilmour
103 - Ciccarelli
100 - Hawerchuk
96 - Goulet
95 - Bourque
95 - Kerr

shows us that some seasons in the 1980s are very comparable to today's leading scorers at the all-star level.


Point being: You can dislike the 1980s' game as much as you like, but the argument that it was a one-country League or that it was talent-depleted simply doesn't hold water.

(In my own opinion, the League today is slightly more talent-depleted than the late 1980s was, with the ideal "talent-to-teams" ratios being around the 1950s and the late-1980s/early-1990s.)

There's no way there was more talent in the NHL at any point in 80s than there is in the recent era with no Russians. Europeans make up a way larger percentage of players than back then and overall there is just a larger talent pool to draw from. The 90s sure, but late 80s I do not believe so.

 

[The Panther]

There's no way there was more talent in the NHL at any point in 80s than there is in the recent era with no Russians. Europeans make up a way larger percentage of players than back then and overall there is just a larger talent pool to draw from. The 90s sure, but late 80s I do not believe so.

In my opinion, 21 teams c. 1985 to 1991 was ideal. The increase to about 24 after Russians started arriving was good. That was where it should have stopped. But the NHL loves money.

 

[VanIslander]

Ray Bourque has more Norris trophies and more Norris finalist nods in the 1990s than the 1980s, despite starting his NHL career in 1979 and being a 1st team all star in 2001.

Why?

As a lifelong Bourque fan (not Bruins fan; guys like he and Yzerman transcend team loyalties), I can say...

Bourque wasn't the fastest skater, but like Gretzky (yes you can go there with this comparison), Bourque SLOWED DOWN the game by his wise decision making. He calmly and coolly physically checked opposing forwards off the puck and recovered the loose puck himself. This skill was more valuable in the tight-checking so-called Dead Puck nineties than the open-ice end-to-end rush eighties.

The only criticism I have ever respected of Bourque was that he didn't have Coffey's speed. (But he otherwise had so much more than Paul.)