The puzzling media discrediting of Liljegren continues

[Sypher04]

I don’t understand why certain media members have such a hard time admitting Liljegren is actually good and have to continually resort to making up narratives to I can only assume attempt to diminish his play.

This is far from the worst example I’ve seen, but a posting on msn.com by Arun Srinivasan a couple hours ago I look at this excerpt.

While he says a few nice things about Liljegren, he cannot help himself from saying “he’s still prone to more mistakes in his own end” which isn’t even accurate. He also very clearly, with the last statement, attempts to credit Sandin for Liljegren’s play which is just odd to me.

If anything, Liljegren’s mobility and smarts open up room for Sandin to operate, not the other way around.

I’ve liked a lot of what both players have brought this year but I’d love to know wheee he’s getting “all around excellence” from for Sandin. If anything, I think Lijegren has maybe impressed me more than Sandin with his defensive play and penalty killing. Sandin gets the edge in offensive production, but he also plays poweplay and Liljegren doesn’t.

Love Sandin, love Lil. I see no evidence that Sandin is a burgeoning star if Liljegren isn’t right there as well

Click to read more...

 

[stickty111]

I don’t understand why certain media members have such a hard time admitting Liljegren is actually good and have to continually resort to making up narratives to I can only assume attempt to diminish his play.

This is far from the worst example I’ve seen, but a posting on msn.com by Arun Srinivasan a couple hours ago I look at this excerpt.

While he says a few nice things about Liljegren, he cannot help himself from saying “he’s still prone to more mistakes in his own end” which isn’t even accurate. He also very clearly, with the last statement, attempts to credit Sandin for Liljegren’s play which is just odd to me.

If anything, Liljegren’s mobility and smarts open up room for Sandin to operate, not the other way around.

I’ve liked a lot of what both players have brought this year but I’d love to know wheee he’s getting “all around excellence” from for Sandin. If anything, I think Lijegren has maybe impressed me more than Sandin with his defensive play and penalty killing. Sandin gets the edge in offensive production, but he also plays poweplay and Liljegren doesn’t.

It's been like this for 3 years now and it's very odd.

 

[Stephen]

To provide a bit of history, there was the bust narrative surrounding Liljegren when it was reported that the LA Kings insisted on Sean Durzi in the Muzzin deal, which came about a year after he slid from a projected top 2-3 position to the teens.

Add to the fact that the Leafs developed him in the minors for a normal length of time for a player of his position and draft ranking, aka not rushing him to the NHL the autumn after the draft, he was seen as late.

Not really sure a guy from msn.com is going to have his pulse on the Leafs, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. The Sportsnet team was very down on him last year, from Bunkis, Bourne, Kypreos, etc. Didn't make sense vs his actual play.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Liljegren is a very good young defenseman in his own right, but I'm not sure how people can possibly conclude that he's better than Sandin. Sandin's first 10 games were pretty bad admittedly (not sure if his late signing had anything to do with that) but he's been near-elite in his games since (this is supported in his advanced stats) and luckily for us, him and Liljegren have great chemistry together and make a great pairing, however Sandin is the one who drives the play. Liljegren is probably a bit better at knocking the puck off an attacking player and has better straight line speed, Sandin is better at reading the play and shutting down plays before they even happen.

As for the media, it's kind of sad but it's sort of the same thing that we saw when Marner and Nylander were younger. For some reason whenever we have multiple good young players they tended to get compared only to each other without seeming to realise how good they might be in a league-wide context. Nothing really to get too worked up over though, kinda just gotta live with it.

 

[Sypher04]

The Sportsnet team was very down on him last year, from Bunkis, Bourne, Kypreos, etc. Didn't make sense vs his actual play.

The overdrive guys talked a lot of shit too. As did Colaiacovo

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I do think Sandin is better and more impressive, but that doesn't take away from Liljegren. He's still an excellent defenseman who brings a dimension that every team needs

 

[Stephen]

Liljegren is a very good young defenseman in his own right, but I'm not sure how people can possibly conclude that he's better than Sandin. Sandin's first 10 games were pretty bad admittedly (not sure if his late signing had anything to do with that) but he's been near-elite in his games since (this is supported in his advanced stats) and luckily for us, him and Liljegren have great chemistry together and make a great pairing, however Sandin is the one who drives the play. Liljegren is probably a bit better at knocking the puck off an attacking player and has better straight line speed, Sandin is better at reading the play and shutting down plays before they even happen.

As for the media, it's kind of sad but it's sort of the same thing that we saw when Marner and Nylander were younger. For some reason whenever we have multiple good young players they tended to get compared only to each other without seeming to realise how good they might be in a league-wide context. Nothing really to get too worked up over though, kinda just gotta live with it.

I don't really want to do the compare and contrast thing with Liljegren and Sandin, but Liljegren looks more and more confident and I could see him being a less abrasive version of Rasmus Andersson. Similar time table but a 3 year lag time due to age, but the body type, handedness, versatility all looks to be there. Also wouldn't write off the Giordano connection. Think having a former Norris winner impart some defensive wisdom will go a long way towards upping the internal development of the Leaf blueline.

 

[Stephen]

The overdrive guys talked a lot of shit too. As did Colaiacovo

Oh yeah, that's right.

 

[Buds17]

There are positives to associate with either:

Sandin-offensive production and GP
Liljegren-defensive ability and minutes per game

Chalk it up to people loving comparisons (amongst positional teammates in particular) and having preferences for certain aspects of the game.

*Any discrediting of Liljegren (in comparison) might come from having played less while being drafted earlier (and higher),

 

[Sypher04]

I do think Sandin is better and more impressive, but that doesn't take away from Liljegren. He's still an excellent defenseman who brings a dimension that every team needs

Fwiw, I’m not even saying Sandin may not be better, but to me they are clearly similar tier defensemen; just different. I think Liljegren is better defensively and Rasmus is better offensively, but both are two way, and probably a big part of why they work together so well

 

[LeafSteel]

They all fear the Viking…

Small men Media talking heads keep talking.

Our Viking laughs and continues his rise to glory….

 

[Joe n]

Liljegren is a very good young defenseman in his own right, but I'm not sure how people can possibly conclude that he's better than Sandin. Sandin's first 10 games were pretty bad admittedly (not sure if his late signing had anything to do with that) but he's been near-elite in his games since (this is supported in his advanced stats) and luckily for us, him and Liljegren have great chemistry together and make a great pairing, however Sandin is the one who drives the play. Liljegren is probably a bit better at knocking the puck off an attacking player and has better straight line speed, Sandin is better at reading the play and shutting down plays before they even happen.

As for the media, it's kind of sad but it's sort of the same thing that we saw when Marner and Nylander were younger. For some reason whenever we have multiple good young players they tended to get compared only to each other without seeming to realise how good they might be in a league-wide context. Nothing really to get too worked up over though, kinda just gotta live with it.

Funny how every single D Liljegren plays with gets a bump in their advanced stats.

 

[francis246]

I don’t understand why certain media members have such a hard time admitting Liljegren is actually good and have to continually resort to making up narratives to I can only assume attempt to diminish his play.

This is far from the worst example I’ve seen, but a posting on msn.com by Arun Srinivasan a couple hours ago I look at this excerpt.

While he says a few nice things about Liljegren, he cannot help himself from saying “he’s still prone to more mistakes in his own end” which isn’t even accurate. He also very clearly, with the last statement, attempts to credit Sandin for Liljegren’s play which is just odd to me.

If anything, Liljegren’s mobility and smarts open up room for Sandin to operate, not the other way around.

I’ve liked a lot of what both players have brought this year but I’d love to know wheee he’s getting “all around excellence” from for Sandin. If anything, I think Lijegren has maybe impressed me more than Sandin with his defensive play and penalty killing. Sandin gets the edge in offensive production, but he also plays poweplay and Liljegren doesn’t.

Love Sandin, love Lil. I see no evidence that Sandin is a burgeoning star if Liljegren isn’t right there as well

Oh my God. Someone critiquing a player is now discrediting that player as a whole?! It’s actually sickening what disturbs some of you. Liljegren like every other player in the NHL (young and old) makes mistakes. He’s not exempt from making mistakes.

Get off the high horse. People are allowed to critique players. It doesn’t mean there’s an agenda out there. And we shouldn’t really care what others have to say about them! Let’s just be happy we have both who contribute.

That being said, Liljegren and Sandin benefit from each other. Sandin can jump up and make those offensive plays because Liljegren is poised enough to stay back and provide defensive coverage.

Both also make mistakes time to time, but they aren’t the huge mistakes we saw from them in their first couple of seasons.

 

[TheDoldrums]

To provide a bit of history, there was the bust narrative surrounding Liljegren when it was reported that the LA Kings insisted on Sean Durzi in the Muzzin deal, which came about a year after he slid from a projected top 2-3 position to the teens.

I remember that "report" being entirely Kypreos speculation iirc. I'm still entirely unconvinced that the Leafs ever made Liljegren available in that deal.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Sandin's first 10 games were pretty bad admittedly (not sure if his late signing had anything to do with that)

For me this is the easiest way to see the difference between them. Liljegren also missed time due to his injury, but stepped right in to the lineup and played great. He's a very safe player with a high floor, and you can play him with anyone. He's good enough defensively to cover for an offensive partner, and good enough offensively to fulfill puck moving responsibilities for his pairing.

Sandin is just a flat out more impactful player when things are going well for him though. Very few players can read the game like him

 

[Sypher04]

Oh my God. Someone critiquing a player is now discrediting that player as a whole?! It’s actually sickening what disturbs some of you. Liljegren like every other player in the NHL (young and old) makes mistakes. He’s not exempt from making mistakes.

Get off the high horse. People are allowed to critique players. It doesn’t mean there’s an agenda out there. And we shouldn’t really care what others have to say about them! Let’s just be happy we have both who contribute.

That being said, Liljegren and Sandin benefit from each other. Sandin can jump up and make those offensive plays because Liljegren is poised enough to stay back and provide defensive coverage.

Both also make mistakes time to time, but they aren’t the huge mistakes we saw from them in their first couple of seasons.

First of all. Chill out. However much you think me reacting to the excerpt I posted is an overreaction, your reply here blows that out of the water. Also, please do not misrepresent what I said:

1. I never once claimed people can’t criticize Liljegren. I myself have criticized him where it felt appropriate. It was more that the writer only criticized one, while heaping praise on every single thing about Sandin and then attributed his success to Sandin. I’m not sure how else one is expected to read that.
2. I never once claimed it was an agenda on the part of the writer, but there is a clear pattern regarding Liljegren amongst portions of the hockey media covering this team. That’s it.
3. I never once indicated I’m disturbed by it. It’s just a discussion point, and I disagree with what he’s written, so I shared.

My entire point was that they are similar tier players and benefit from playing with each other, so we actually agree. I am happy to have both, which I already expressed. I think they have differing strengths that play well into each others’ games.

I’m just saying it’s weird to go out of your way to point out Liljegren’s defensive mistakes when they are no more plentiful Sandin’s are.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I don’t understand why certain media members have such a hard time admitting Liljegren is actually good and have to continually resort to making up narratives to I can only assume attempt to diminish his play.

This is far from the worst example I’ve seen, but a posting on msn.com by Arun Srinivasan a couple hours ago I look at this excerpt.

While he says a few nice things about Liljegren, he cannot help himself from saying “he’s still prone to more mistakes in his own end” which isn’t even accurate. He also very clearly, with the last statement, attempts to credit Sandin for Liljegren’s play which is just odd to me.

If anything, Liljegren’s mobility and smarts open up room for Sandin to operate, not the other way around.

I’ve liked a lot of what both players have brought this year but I’d love to know wheee he’s getting “all around excellence” from for Sandin. If anything, I think Lijegren has maybe impressed me more than Sandin with his defensive play and penalty killing. Sandin gets the edge in offensive production, but he also plays poweplay and Liljegren doesn’t.

Love Sandin, love Lil. I see no evidence that Sandin is a burgeoning star if Liljegren isn’t right there as well

I don't think this guy has seen Sandin play. "all around excellence"? I like Sandin, but no way have I seen consistent all around excellence from him. Lily is the much more all around excellent defenceman, particularly during this d injury streak.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Funny how every single D Liljegren plays with gets a bump in their advanced stats.

He's a good player, not that funny

 

[Stephen]

I remember that "report" being entirely Kypreos speculation iirc. I'm still entirely unconvinced that the Leafs ever made Liljegren available in that deal.

It's a very "Kyper" storyline.

 

[saltming]

I don’t understand why certain media members have such a hard time admitting Liljegren is actually good and have to continually resort to making up narratives to I can only assume attempt to diminish his play.

This is far from the worst example I’ve seen, but a posting on msn.com by Arun Srinivasan a couple hours ago I look at this excerpt.

While he says a few nice things about Liljegren, he cannot help himself from saying “he’s still prone to more mistakes in his own end” which isn’t even accurate. He also very clearly, with the last statement, attempts to credit Sandin for Liljegren’s play which is just odd to me.

If anything, Liljegren’s mobility and smarts open up room for Sandin to operate, not the other way around.

I’ve liked a lot of what both players have brought this year but I’d love to know wheee he’s getting “all around excellence” from for Sandin. If anything, I think Lijegren has maybe impressed me more than Sandin with his defensive play and penalty killing. Sandin gets the edge in offensive production, but he also plays poweplay and Liljegren doesn’t.

Love Sandin, love Lil. I see no evidence that Sandin is a burgeoning star if Liljegren isn’t right there as well

Must be a Swedish thing. They did it to Willie now to Lilly.
Click bait?

 

[kb]

Liljegren is a much better all round D, Sandin is more flashy and gets more points, but with obvious skating and size limitations.

And I'm very glad we have both. They are both unfinished products.

 

[therealkoho]

Oh yeah, that's right.

O'Neill still has a hard time giving Willie Ny any real praise, I find that kind of baffling because all those negative things that Nylander did have, have pretty much disappeared from his game.

The problem with Liljegren is his seeming lack of intensity, which goes along with his languid personality. I think it might cost him the odd puck battle occasionally, but he usually makes up for it with dogged pursuit. I think a lot of the media just wants to see more fire, to see some physical dominance which is a trait normally associated with a Dmans overall worth. I think you'll see Tim getting a little more aggressive as he develops into a fully realized #3 or perhaps even the #2 he may become at his peak. Remember he's still only 125 games or so into his NHL career.

His play with either Gio or Sandin I don't think should be criticized by anybody.

 

[Stephen]

Must be a Swedish thing. They did it to Willie now to Lilly.
Click bait?

I don't think it's a Swedish thing but more like a "surplus" thing and who gets voted off the island to bring in the home run championship piece. Marner vs Nylander, Liljegren vs Sandin.

 

[ACC1224]

Never understood why people care so much about the media’s opinions.

 

[therealkoho]

Must be a Swedish thing. They did it to Willie now to Lilly.
Click bait?

Swedish thing? I've been around since before Hammarstrom and Salming and while there was some of that anti-Euro non-sense around the entire league back then, it disappeared completely from Toronto by no later then the Kings 2nd season. Although I cannot offer you anything other than hyperbole there were a lot of kids suddenly asking for 21 at the start of the hockey season.

The reason people were deriding Willie had nothing to do with his Swedish heritage(although born in Calgary), but everything to do with his long periods of seeming disinterest in winning battles, races, going to dirty areas or finishing checks. How many times did Eakins bench him, or Keefe for that matter even with the Leafs?

Looking for racism when it's not anywhere there to be found reflects on you!