OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Super Bowl? Thats like a giant pot of chips or popcorn right?

[Zirakzigil]

New thread before the super bowl shenanigans commence.

Porter actually grades higher in zone coverage, which is why I like him. He can do both very well and has some balls skills. He’s also a sound tackler.

It makes me nervous chunks Colbert is still involved with the organization. I really hope no one asks his input on the draft.

I don't know how involved he is though. I doubt he will have much input with prospects because he isn't doing the due diligence regarding them.

I’ll never get this animosity Steeler fans have towards Colbert…

He and Newsome were the best drafting GMs of the last 20 years and Colbert never had the benefit of top ten picks to build his roster.

He was responsible for building two SB winners and put some of the most talented rosters in the league on the field year after year.

He even left the org with what looks like a stellar class in his final draft.

Not his fault Tomlin did Tomlin things in the playoffs.

Because in this town the coach can't do any wrong so it HAS to be the GM.

Look at Pens now. Everyone except Sully is getting the Smear treatment.

Not sure a CB playing better in man coverage is an issue with Teryl Austin as DC. Pretty sure the Steelers played the 5th highest percentage of man coverage in the NFL last season. One of the reasons they liked and traded for William Jackson III was his fit in Austin's man coverage scheme. He just couldn't get healthy. It'll be interesting to see if they keep him around.

Porter seems like such a Steelers/Tomlin pick with the bloodlines etc. but I have my doubts they go CB in round one. I wouldn't be against it depending on who's there but it seems like Weidl really likes loading up at the line of scrimmage with the O-Line and D-line. I'm not expecting a flashy draft with lots of skill guys. I'm thinking it's going to be a lot of lineman early.

I don't either. I felt even poor picks by Colbert were at least justifiable at the time, albeit some were risky. I think the pick that he made that I really didn't like or understand and my thoughts turned out to be jusitifable was Artie Burns. Other than that, he hit on some guys that played huge roles for us in later rounds.



Sully gets a ton of flak. I think right now for the Pens and Steelers both - coaches and GMs should be on the firing line. The city expects better. The thing that really irritates me right now is that every single team who has similar results around us this past season has fired their OC and here we are looking like a bunch of bozos. I guess I can buy that they want Kenny to have some continuity from season to season while he's getting accustomed to the NFL, but man this is going to be brutal.



I agree completely. I think this draft is going to set the stage for the next 5 years. Hopefully Weidl can have some big hits this draft like Colbert did in 2002, which really set the wheels in motion for the success the team had going forward.

Colbert didn't have the power to fire Tomlin, or I'm pretty confident he would have long ago.


I read awhile back Colbert drafted more pro bowlers in rounds 2-3 than any other GM over the last couple decades.

I can’t imagine a guy used to all that success his first decade in the league, had an easy time the second half of his Steeler career seeing the talented teams he put together get pissed away time and again.

He’s only 66, so I suspect he grew frustrated and decided to go year by year hoping it would get better, then finally realized things wouldn’t be changing anytime soon, and called it quits.

I heard he and Tomlin had a good relationship, but watching Tomlin continue to fail so hard had to wear Colbert down.

Steelers really value CB's that can tackle. That philosophy hasn't changed much over the years

I don’t understand the weidl loading up on o line thought. The Eagles drafted 2 g and 2 ot since 2013 in the 1st 2 rounds. They took a LT in 2019 who they didn’t pick up his 5th year option. They have only drafted 2 Dl in the first 3 rounds since 2014. They did invest a ton of money on the dl. They drafted Wr more often than us in the top 2 rounds in that stretch.
I think CB is definitely in play at 17

Kinda wished he would stick around for one more year since we don’t get any picks if he leaves. If he doesn’t get the AZ HC gig which is a losing situation

Flores to Minny as the new DC

the more I watch the WR class the more I’m okay with picking Addison. And I don’t even like him a ton, I find his play strength pretty rough. But hes the only guy I think is a sure fire solid enough pro. Maybe JSN too. Everyone else is really meh or has a possible fatal flaw. Super weak group imo.

Might be smart to check out FA for that position. Pascal (PHI) would be a great pickup.

I like Iosavias from Princeton.

Suprised he came here in the first place to put up Tomlin's tea party.

He was like "one year was too much for me, I'm good"

Don't think they should be taking guys they don't like a ton at 17OA, even if the rest of the group is weak. Particularly since much as I want to see them boost Pickett's weapons, any new guy is still going to be weapon #4 for next season unless they're really really good. That seems a situation where you can gamble on a late pick guy with some tools coming good.

Hopefully Tomlin people skills rubbed off on him so he doesn’t get fired in a few years

What Skills? He lost IQ points hanging around that.

Is their a franchise that's doesn't value good tackling?

Like "our team prefers O-lineman that can prevent sacks."

I get what you're saying I'm just in a mood.

Click to read more...

 

[JTG]

This may be the draft to get a really good TE and we let Gentry walk. Daniel Jeremiah's list has 6 in his top 50. There is a ton of value to be had with corner and TE this draft. I'd love to see us run more two TE sets where both TE's were a threat. I think Kenny with two capable TE's could just pick defenses apart.

I'm really keying in on a few guys that I think would be awesome here. Joe Tippmann has been one of my favorite players in this draft. I think he's a plug and play starter for the IOL. Also a huge fan of Keion White. His draft profile reads a lot like Tuitt's. He's scheme versatile also. I also like Emmanuel Forbes at CB. He's skinny, but his ball skills are off the charts good.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Max Starks chiming in lol

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[bigdaddyk88]

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Feels like some team, be it the Ravens or whomever, will massively regret paying a guy who isn’t a talented passer, has injury concerns, and has one playoff win, that kind of roll.

 

[JTG]

Feels like some team, be it the Ravens or whomever, will massively regret paying a guy who isn’t a talented passer, has injury concerns, and has one playoff win, that kind of roll.

I think Jackson is a great player, but if I were Baltimore, I'd franchise him, and sell him for a bag of picks. They are phenomenal at drafting.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think Jackson is a great player, but if I were Baltimore, I'd franchise him, and sell him for a bag of picks. They are phenomenal at drafting.

They won SBs with Dilfer and Flacco, so they don’t exactly need a superstar there.

Maybe I’ll be wrong about LJ, but his career so far is playing out like I expected - lots of hype, no playoff success to show for it.

Just like Vick.

Over his last two seasons he’s 15-9, with 33 TDs and 20 picks.

Not atrocious or anything, but worth $250m?

Then there is the concern about him not being able to finish the last two seasons due to injury.

Careful what you wish for and all I know, but Tomlin owns LJ, so maybe him going back there and getting a huge deal helps the Steelers.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I think Jackson is a great player, but if I were Baltimore, I'd franchise him, and sell him for a bag of picks. They are phenomenal at drafting.

Yeah they could place the non exclusive tag on him which allows them lamar to explore his value and gives them a chance to match or take 2 1st. If i am lamar i don’t even negotiate with new teams until after the draft so the ravens dont get a 1st until 24 from new team

 

[bigdaddyk88]

They won SBs with Dilfer and Flacco, so they don’t exactly need a superstar there.

Maybe I’ll be wrong about LJ, but his career so far is playing out like I expected - lots of hype, no playoff success to show for it.

Just like Vick.

Over his last two seasons he’s 15-9, with 33 TDs and 20 picks.

Not atrocious or anything, but worth $250m?

Then there is the concern about him not being able to finish the last two seasons due to injury.

Careful what you wish for and all I know, but Tomlin owns LJ, so maybe him going back there and getting a huge deal helps the Steelers.

He saved Hairball job. Kyle Murray is at 38 17 and has one playoff game and got paid. His deal has 183 million guaranteed

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He saved Hairball job. Kyle Murray is at 38 17 and has one playoff game and got paid. His deal has 183 million guaranteed

Harbaugh doesn't have a lifetime job like Tomlin, so results matter in Baltimore, crazy as that seems. Tomlin would have been long gone from Baltimore if he coached there and had the same results he has had with the Steelers the last dozen years.

Let's not gloss over the reality that Harbaugh changed his offense on the fly to be tailor made for LJ.

If LJ had gone into a pro system, he would have floundered. I'm 100% sure of that, especially given the reality that he still struggles throwing the ball after 5 years in the league.

Just because Murray got a stupid bad deal doesn't mean the Ravens have to be stupid also. At least LJ has a winning record I suppose.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

If they don't sign Jackson then who is going to play QB for them? The FA QB market is very *underwhelming. And unless they make a trade with Houston or Indy, they wouldn't be guaranteed a QB in this draft.

*Lots of talk that Geno Smith is going to reup in Seattle. Thus that would leave Garoppolo who can't stay healthy, Daniel Jones (oi vei) and a bunch of journeyman.

What they need to do is have a decent offensive scheme and a backup QB who knows how to make a pass. Thus then they are not left with Lamar Jackson Jr and Lamar Jackson Jr Jr.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If they don't sign Jackson then who is going to play QB for them? The FA QB market is very *underwhelming. And unless they make a trade with Houston or Indy, they wouldn't be guaranteed a QB in this draft.

*Lots of talk that Geno Smith is going to reup in Seattle. Thus that would leave Garoppolo who can't stay healthy, Daniel Jones (oi vei) and a bunch of journeyman.

What they need to do is have a decent offensive scheme and a backup QB who knows how to make a pass. Thus then they are not left with Lamar Jackson Jr and Lamar Jackson Jr Jr.

Harbaugh almost beat the great Joe Burrow in Cincy with a QB who could barely complete a fwd pass. If not for that same QB fumbling on a goal line leap, they more than likely win that game. So he doesn't need a superstar to win IMHO.

They are in a tough spot. Pay out a mega deal to a guy who hasn't proven he can win in the playoffs and hasn't finished the last two seasons... or start the arduous journey of finding another legit starter.

I guess if I was a Ravens fan I'd want them to keep him and hope it works out, but it would be hard not to think about the haul he would bring in a trade.

If they give him a huge deal and LJ remains an injury riddled QB that can't win in the playoffs, they will be setting themselves back years. If they trade him and he finds success and their picks don't pan out... a lot of people will be losing their jobs.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If they don't sign Jackson then who is going to play QB for them? The FA QB market is very *underwhelming. And unless they make a trade with Houston or Indy, they wouldn't be guaranteed a QB in this draft.

*Lots of talk that Geno Smith is going to reup in Seattle. Thus that would leave Garoppolo who can't stay healthy, Daniel Jones (oi vei) and a bunch of journeyman.

What they need to do is have a decent offensive scheme and a backup QB who knows how to make a pass. Thus then they are not left with Lamar Jackson Jr and Lamar Jackson Jr Jr.

They draft at 22. They could take a guy there (Hooker?), add someone like Mike White in FA and keep Huntley. They might miss the playoffs for a season but they wouldn't be strapped to a crazy contract for LJ and would probably be right back where they have been, competing for a playoff spot, by the following season - not unlike another club we are familiar with. I hate Harbaugh but he's a good coach.

Maybe you "need" that elite guy to win in 2020s era NFL, and they wouldn't have that. But do they think Lamar is that either?

 

[Captain Hook]

It will be interesting to see what Baltimore does with Lamar Jackson. He's one of the most dynamic dual threat/running QB's of all time but he's had trouble staying healthy and his playing style may not age well due to how reliant his game is on freakish athleticism.

I like watching him play but we also haven't seen a team win it all with a QB that plays like him either. A lot of reasons there for Baltimore to sell high, but as others mentioned, who plays QB?

I'm guessing Bryce Young and CJ Stroud are gone by the top 5 picks. I do think Richardson (Florida QB) will go early to mid first round too since his skill set is so ridiculous. I've seen Hooker projected all over the place (2nd round to 5th round). He finished with two great years at Tennessee but he's also 25 years old already and just tore his ACL at the end of the season. I actually wouldn't mind the Steelers taking a flier on him if he falls to the late rounds.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

They draft at 22. They could take a guy there (Hooker?), add someone like Mike White in FA and keep Huntley. They might miss the playoffs for a season but they wouldn't be strapped to a crazy contract for LJ and would probably be right back where they have been, competing for a playoff spot, by the following season - not unlike another club we are familiar with. I hate Harbaugh but he's a good coach.

Maybe you "need" that elite guy to win in 2020s era NFL, and they wouldn't have that. But do they think Lamar is that either?

If they trade LJ, they will get a ton of picks. Now those picks may not be high because LJ will likely win during the regular season. Of course he could get hurt once again and that team could go in the toilet.

I just... I can't see him being worth that kind of deal.

Only Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and guys in that class should get these mega deals. I get how it is with QBs being hard to find, but it will rarely work out paying anyone but the elite Qbs these massive deals.

If you strap your org to a guy like LJ, and have a massive cap percentage tied up into him, I don't see how that ends well.

Hopefully Steelers aren't in that kind of bind with KP in several years. Either he's proven he's a franchise type guy who can get it done in the playoffs, or it's probably time to move on without giving him a mega deal.

Cowboys are in that situation now where they gave Prescott 40m a year and he's a good QB, but he's just not a guy you can sink that much money into.

 

[Pens1566]

Yeah, you can't pay LJ that and stay competitive.

 

[Peat]

I do wonder if the NFL will at some point correct course about handing a ton of money to not quite elite QBs. I've seen some journos mutter about it because people are noticing how few teams win once their QB is off the rookie contract but at the same time, it doesn't feel like something people are gonna correct.

In any case... Lamar Jackson feels like a guy who's gonna fall off his peak too soon to even be worth that by NFL standards. Running QBs don't usually last. He's already picking up the injuries. Part of me wonders what what he'd be like as a passer with actual guys to throw to but I don't think that'd magically make him an elite passer.

As such, I think they should bite the bullet and trade him. Big risk, but I think keeping him is an even bigger one.

 

[Peat]

Fun puff piece on Weidl in The Athletic for those with subscriptions

 

[bigdaddyk88]

They draft at 22. They could take a guy there (Hooker?), add someone like Mike White in FA and keep Huntley. They might miss the playoffs for a season but they wouldn't be strapped to a crazy contract for LJ and would probably be right back where they have been, competing for a playoff spot, by the following season - not unlike another club we are familiar with. I hate Harbaugh but he's a good coach.

Maybe you "need" that elite guy to win in 2020s era NFL, and they wouldn't have that. But do they think Lamar is that either?

I always tease my ravens friends they should not pay him and draft Richardson from Florida. They can’t just play any Qb they went from scoring 24 points a game with lamar to 13 without him. He can run the same offense philly uses. He will not work in a timing rpo that Miami runs.
2nd year in a row they were in 1st when he was healthy and dropped out without him. If MT doesn’t throw 3 picks and we sweep them they are looking at year 2 of missing out on the playoffs cause they lost the head to head to Miami

 

[JTG]

If they don't sign Jackson then who is going to play QB for them? The FA QB market is very *underwhelming. And unless they make a trade with Houston or Indy, they wouldn't be guaranteed a QB in this draft.

*Lots of talk that Geno Smith is going to reup in Seattle. Thus that would leave Garoppolo who can't stay healthy, Daniel Jones (oi vei) and a bunch of journeyman.

What they need to do is have a decent offensive scheme and a backup QB who knows how to make a pass. Thus then they are not left with Lamar Jackson Jr and Lamar Jackson Jr Jr.

Derek Carr and then draft someone. That would be a perfect situation for Carr and the Ravens. The only issue is they sold off all of their receivers so they would need to take care of that.

 

[JTG]

They won SBs with Dilfer and Flacco, so they don’t exactly need a superstar there.

Maybe I’ll be wrong about LJ, but his career so far is playing out like I expected - lots of hype, no playoff success to show for it.

Just like Vick.

Over his last two seasons he’s 15-9, with 33 TDs and 20 picks.

Not atrocious or anything, but worth $250m?

Then there is the concern about him not being able to finish the last two seasons due to injury.

Careful what you wish for and all I know, but Tomlin owns LJ, so maybe him going back there and getting a huge deal helps the Steelers.

The reason Mahomes is as good as he is is because if you make him sit in the pocket, he will still kill you. Jackson probably could be a really good QB from the pocket but his brain doesn't allow him to be.

Fun puff piece on Weidl in The Athletic for those with subscriptions

I dig Weidl. I like his thought process for how he has built teams. I think his vision aligns a lot with how the fans would like to see the team work here. As many have said, this draft isn't going to be sexy, but it could ensure long term success here.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Derek Carr and then draft someone. That would be a perfect situation for Carr and the Ravens. The only issue is they sold off all of their receivers so they would need to take care of that.

Derek wouldn’t even consider them.

 

[JTG]

Derek wouldn’t even consider them.

I don't know how many suitors he would have that would be much better.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Derek Carr is really good. They should definitely trade LJ away and go forward with him.

Hopefully Harbaugh sees this and it convinces him.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don't know how many suitors he would have that would be much better.

The jets with an actual receiving core. If the saints can make it work under the cap. Carolina. Washington he will be the number 1 FA. I wonder if Seattle would rather have him than franchise tagging Smith.
If your vegas anyone not named Rodgers is a down grade.