OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[T1K]

We don’t really have the luxury of trading Pickens when our WR2 is Calvin Austin. Sure we could sign someone like Tee Higgins, but he isn’t a true alpha WR1 like Pickens, at least in my opinion. Pickens has made a lot of positive strides from a route running standpoint. I fear trading him now would be the type of mistake that would set this team back years.

 

[Peat]

I'm tired of Pickens' immaturity, but Tomlin is the flat out best in the business getting headcases to be productive and knows when to pull the plug and move on. I'm fully trusting of Tomlin's decision making when it comes to moving on from Pickens, my opinion is whatever Tomlin decides to do. His track record of handling guys like AB, Brown, Claypool and DJ is just too good for me to second guess his judgement.

This. I lean towards not trusting the guy but if the Steelers think they can, sure. They see him a lot more than me and know their business well.

I am fascinated by how that ball bounces though. Saying Pickens needs to grow up fast is mild in isolation, but compared to Tomlin's history of public support for his players and Pickens in particular, it strikes me as anything but. There's the Khan element too. I don't know he's as willing to tolerate distractions if Tomlin says to as Colbert was. Then you've got the Steelers' history of generally opting against lengthy second contracts for their WRs. Feels like it could go any way.

 

[Peat]

Also speaking of contracts, the Broncos' LT Garett Boles just got 4 x 21m. I don't know exactly how he stacks up with Dan Moore, but Boles is 32 and more than 3 seasons removed from his sole All Pro nod so we're not talking a league elite or a guy giving his best years. It's a 4m APY pay raise on Boles' last contract.

As such, I think Moore getting paid a lot seems that bit likelier, and kills any vestigial idea of holding onto him.

 

[xlm34]

They should at least be on track for some comp picks unless they decide to go crazy in FA. Moore is definitely getting a big contract. Daniels before the injury would have received a boatload but still should get a decent sized contract. I think some team gives Harris a nice deal. If a team likes Fields he’ll get paid too.

 

[Fiji Water]

The Cowboys won multiple Super Bowls with headcases like Michael Irvin and Deion Sanders. The Bulls won multiple rings with Dennis Rodman. The key is to have a coach who can manage these types of personalities. Tomlin seems to have that ability. AB and Bell were the most productive players at their respective positions for vast majority of their tenures with the Steelers. Both were not the reason why the Steelers failed in the playoffs...that blame primarily falls on Ben and the defense imploding.

 

[Peat]

They should at least be on track for some comp picks unless they decide to go crazy in FA. Moore is definitely getting a big contract. Daniels before the injury would have received a boatload but still should get a decent sized contract. I think some team gives Harris a nice deal. If a team likes Fields he’ll get paid too.

Fields doesn't even need to get paid all that much to garner one. The 49ers picked Purdy with a compensatory pick they got for losing their backup QB to another backup QB gig. Can't even remember the dude's name. Good chance they pick up something for Mike Williams too.

Only point I'd make is that with the cap space the Steelers have, they can go a bit crazy in FA. Over The Cap gives them nearly 42m in effective cap space, which sounds tight when you've got to pay a QB but that's before remembering Preston Smith can be cut for a free 13m's worth of cap space and probably will be compared to paying him that to be OLB4. I doubt they're keeping Cole Holcomb either with Queen and Wilson, and that reclaims a further 6m. So if you start thinking of it as 61m in cap space, that's quite a lot, even if Wilson takes 25-30m.

I know they've got be a bit canny with TJ Watt coming up for renewal and whatever decision they make on Pickens and a 2022 draft class that's set to get paid, but that's still plenty of room for aggression, particularly if they think they're close.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

And did you hear part of the reason why they had a contract dispute? Bell thought Ben had too much say it what was going on. Then he told his offensive line he'd be back and then ghosted them - DeCastro and Pouncey took public exception. I'm not going to sit here and pretend like the two dudes were good teammates. Two of the best Steelers ever but they couldn't stay out of their own way.

Except it does matter. And very clearly did to Tomlin afterwards also. Twitter beefing with an active teammate at your position? No big deal? K.

So we are now reducing down the original point. There were problems with the two dudes.

Yeah it really seemed to effect their play on the field. Oh wait, nope.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

They should at least be on track for some comp picks unless they decide to go crazy in FA. Moore is definitely getting a big contract. Daniels before the injury would have received a boatload but still should get a decent sized contract. I think some team gives Harris a nice deal. If a team likes Fields he’ll get paid too.

It depends on what they do in FA. I do believe Fields gets 2-24 Minshew deal and the comp pick is better than the 6th we gave up.
I am on record saying I want to trade issac and take the 15 million Moore will get and 10 million from Issac and get Higgins

 

[pistolpete11]

The reason I lean further towards moving on from Pickens than you is I regard Pickens as more of a DJ type, and maybe more so than DJ himself. That Dallas game where Fields threw one final pass to where Pickens should have been but wasn't because he didn't run full out on his route really sticks with me, particularly as it came after a lot of grumbling about his route running effort and accuracy from the QB School in the Fields era.

There's other low effort - or in some cases low IQ or reliability - plays that really stick with me too. Failing to get both feet in bounds on a touchdown last season. That jump to the sidelines this season. Getting taken out of some plays very easily vs the Browns. His drops are way up this season too, and some of them have been critical. If that whole worry about the "if that guy isn't giving his all, why am I" gets played out, then I think it does with George. Particularly with the accusations about him not showing up to meetings on time.

On the other side though, your point about this being a short window is also true. I can buy gambling on him behaving himself well enough through the window because otherwise they don't have a WR1 and that's a worse gamble. That said, by the numbers, I'm not sure he's in the top 10 WRs in football right now, and I'm not sure that's going to change unless he gets a lot more dialed in on his details.

That's fair, but I still think he's closer to AB/Brown than DJ. DJ is as timid of a mouse. Pickens is more of a fighter, sometimes to a fault, including the end of that Dallas game. I'd rathter have a guy like that than DJ.

If they do move on from him, though, I"m sure we'll hear all about the behind the scenes stuff.

We don’t really have the luxury of trading Pickens when our WR2 is Calvin Austin. Sure we could sign someone like Tee Higgins, but he isn’t a true alpha WR1 like Pickens, at least in my opinion. Pickens has made a lot of positive strides from a route running standpoint. I fear trading him now would be the type of mistake that would set this team back years.

If I knew for sure they could get Higgins, I'd be leaning towards trading Pickens. I agree I don't think this upside is as high, but I think with more targets he'd still be a legit #1 and more stable. Although, maybe there's stuff about him that I'm not privy to, too.

I'd still then draft another guy in R1 or 2, though, because as you said, CA3 can't be your #2.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Roberts wants to come back. Holcomb was the green dot guy and repots say he could be cleared before the end of the season playing. They have some decisions to make. Do they draft a dl and move on from larry o because of the growth of benton
TJ will be done in august like cam was

 

[pistolpete11]

Roberts wants to come back. Holcomb was the green dot guy and repots say he could be cleared before the end of the season playing. They have some decisions to make. Do they draft a dl and move on from larry o because of the growth of benton
TJ will be done in august like cam was

I kinda like the Roberts/Wilson platoon depending on opponent and/or game situation.

Even if they keep Larry O, I think you take a DL in the first 2 rounds.

 

[Peat]

That's fair, but I still think he's closer to AB/Brown than DJ. DJ is as timid of a mouse. Pickens is more of a fighter, sometimes to a fault, including the end of that Dallas game. I'd rathter have a guy like that than DJ.

If they do move on from him, though, I"m sure we'll hear all about the behind the scenes stuff.


If I knew for sure they could get Higgins, I'd be leaning towards trading Pickens. I agree I don't think this upside is as high, but I think with more targets he'd still be a legit #1 and more stable. Although, maybe there's stuff about him that I'm not privy to, too.

I'd still then draft another guy in R1 or 2, though, because as you said, CA3 can't be your #2.

Truest words on this thread

And agreed that a Higgins signing/Pickens trade would still result in having to take a WR early. Honestly I'd be happy with just keeping Pickens one last year and seeing whether he can make his case to stay.

I kinda like the Roberts/Wilson platoon depending on opponent and/or game situation.

Even if they keep Larry O, I think you take a DL in the first 2 rounds.

Agreed on both counts. Ogunjobi is adequate insurance to let you not chase it if the draft breaks in a different way, but you still ideally get a guy this year.

Also re Holcomb... if the dude is back this year and can contribute, great. I'm dubious about a guy with his injury getting right back on the bus, but take every little advantage. But long term, Queen/Wilson have taken his job and there isn't a place here. Feels hard as he did everything right wearing the jersey and the injury obviously wasn't his fault, but it's sayonara. Have the team call their buddies and let them know that Holcomb did nothing wrong and that they should give him a shot, but it's just not a goer at his current money here.

 

[JTG]

Yeah it really seemed to effect their play on the field. Oh wait, nope.

It affected the team...which is what matters...and was the original point.

Roberts and Wilson has made quite a duo. Wilson very well may be the steal of that draft. He is everywhere.

 

[WickedWrister]

I think this is a better conversation for the off season but I am still team #ExtendPickens. Going into this season there were legitimate football related questions that @T1K alluded to about whether Pickens could function as a true X WR1 for this team and to me he's answered them. The fact that he was at one point top 5 in receiving yards in the league in what is still one of the one run heavy offenses was remarkable. He's like 7th in yards per route run, 4th if I filter on his amount of routes (326). This offensive renaissance we've seen is almost entirely due to the explosive plays in the passing game - and Pickens has a lot to do with that. Strictly on talent and performance I'm okay with paying him like one of the top 10ish receivers in the league because I think he's played like it.

The unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and lack of effort on certain plays are definitely an issue, to say nothing of the stuff that happens behind the scenes that we don't see. I just think that his usefulness far outweighs the potential distractions that he causes... for now.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

It affected the team...which is what matters...and was the original point.

Roberts and Wilson has made quite a duo. Wilson very well may be the steal of that draft. He is everywhere.

Did it though? I dont see any reason to believe it did. It ended in spectacular fashion but up until that point everyone produced.

I thjnk a lot a people project their dislike of individuals on the ability for them to do their jobs

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don’t think they jet send Holcomb. I think in a perfect world he keeps the green dot and they let Queen run and hit that’s what he does best. Wilson was drafted to be the coverage LB

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

And did you hear part of the reason why they had a contract dispute? Bell thought Ben had too much say it what was going on. Then he told his offensive line he'd be back and then ghosted them - DeCastro and Pouncey took public exception. I'm not going to sit here and pretend like the two dudes were good teammates. Two of the best Steelers ever but they couldn't stay out of their own way.

Except it does matter. And very clearly did to Tomlin afterwards also. Twitter beefing with an active teammate at your position? No big deal? K.

So we are now reducing down the original point. There were problems with the two dudes.

Remember the video where teammates basically raided Bell's lockerroom and snatched his shoes?
They were pissed at Bell.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Did it though? I dont see any reason to believe it did. It ended in spectacular fashion but up until that point everyone produced.

I thjnk a lot a people project their dislike of individuals on the ability for them to do their jobs

Guess what- you can be good at your job but also be a shitty teammate. Those aren't mutually exclusive behaviors.

You can also resent your manager and your teammate bc the manager applies different rules to different players.

To say it "didn't affect anything" presumes you know their feelings.
I don't pretend to know any Steelers' feelings, but I know that era of Steelers were a bunch of me 1st dudes who didn't win shit and were very unlikeable.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Speaking of AB....similar behavior

Niners scorn 'selfish' Campbell's refusal to play

Niners players blasted linebacker De'Vondre Campbell after Thursday's loss to the Rams, calling his refusal to enter the game for an injured Dre Greenlaw a "selfish decision."

www.espn.com

 

[JTG]

Remember the video where teammates basically raided Bell's lockerroom and snatched his shoes?
They were pissed at Bell.

Not a problem.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Have not watched him play this year. Is he cooked?

OBJ released by Fins after appearing in 9 games

The Dolphins released wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. on Friday, ending the veteran's tenure with the team four weeks before the end of the regular season.

www.espn.com

 

[MrBrightside]

Have not watched him play this year. Is he cooked?

OBJ released by Fins after appearing in 9 games

The Dolphins released wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. on Friday, ending the veteran's tenure with the team four weeks before the end of the regular season.

www.espn.com

yes

 

[Khelandros]

Not a problem.

This was after the deadline for him to sign had passed, meaning he wouldn't need them for the remainder of the season.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Yeah, OBJ is done. He has 9 catches for 55 yards this season.

Kinda funny that he was able to snooker the Ravens into paying him 16mil last season, of which 11.5mil is dead money this season.

 

[WickedWrister]

Line has moved to -5.5 Philly