The New and really Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

[zeke]

When they actually achieve more than 105 points over an 82 game season while playing the full NHL then they will have improved on their best season ever.

Trying to use "pace" in a 56 game season against the same 6 teams over and over again is not even remotely the same.

But at least you're consistent.

Ah so now Dubas gets blamed for having 2 shortened seasons out of his 3 in charge too now. Nice.

Also, in his 1 full 82gm season in charge, the leafs had a better record than the 105pt season other than shootouts anyways.

 

[Racer88]

Ah so now Dubas gets blamed for having 2 shortened seasons out of his 3 in charge too now. Nice.

Also, in his 1 full 82gm season in charge, the leafs had a better record than the 105pt season other than shootouts anyways.

Did they have more points then 105 in his 1 full 82 game season?

 

[egd27]

Ah so now Dubas gets blamed for having 2 shortened seasons out of his 3 in charge too now. Nice.

Also, in his 1 full 82gm season in charge, the leafs had a better record than the 105pt season other than shootouts anyways.

Geez Zeke ease up on the Dubas persecution complex.

Stating that "pace" in a 56 game season under unique circumstance isn't the same as actual results achieved in a "normal" season doesn't mean I blame Dubas for shortened seasons.

 

[zeke]

Did they have more points then 105 in his 1 full 82 game season?

No.

Up to you if you care about shootout points or not.

 

[zeke]

Geez Zeke ease up on the Dubas persecution complex.

Stating that "pace" in a 56 game season under unique circumstance isn't the same as actual results achieved in a "normal" season doesn't mean I blame Dubas for shortened seasons.

Beating 105pts in 56gms would have been tough.

 

[Racer88]

No.

Up to you if you care about shootout points or not.

Shootouts are part of the game and can decide if a team makes the playoffs so ya, I’d say they count.
You cannot just delete a certain type of “point” just to claim he is better.
That’s not really honest

 

[zeke]

Shootouts are part of the game and can decide if a team makes the playoffs so ya, I’d say they count.
You cannot just delete a certain type of “point” just to claim he is better.
That’s not really honest

Like I said - up to you if you want to judge teams by shootout points.

 

[The CyNick]

He overpaid a single player by about 1-2 million tops, I will take that over the overpays that he had to deal with — Zaitsev, Martin, Marleau

Try to stick to Dubas.

His overpay was easy more than that. He paid Matthews the number that still would have been high on an 8yr deal and gave him a 5 year deal.

Every one of the big four contract was a disaster on some level.

 

[zeke]

Every one of the big four contract was a disaster on some level.

Every one of those disasters easily tradeable for great returns, if we wanted to.

Unlike Lou's disasters.

 

[egd27]

Beating 105pts in 56gms would have been tough.

Yes, it would have.

Hopefully they get a full 82 game season in and can have a legitimate shot at exceeding 105 points.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Did they have more points then 105 in his 1 full 82 game season?

If you don't count actual facts and records, but you counted the first 40, then after that only every other game, carry the two, take out the games during the months of things he couldn't be blamed for, e.g. Brexit, multiply the rest by Expected Luck/60, blame Lou and Mike for 90% of everything, then yes - he did achieve over 105 points.

 

[zeke]

Yes, it would have.

Hopefully they get a full 82 game season in and can have a legitimate shot at exceeding 105 points.

Or we could choose not to ignore last regular season.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ah so now Dubas gets blamed for having 2 shortened seasons out of his 3 in charge too now. Nice.

Also, in his 1 full 82gm season in charge, the leafs had a better record than the 105pt season other than shootouts anyways.

He had a 100 point season, and lost 2 shootouts, so if they win those 2, they get 102 points.

 

[zeke]

He had a 100 point season, and lost 2 shootouts, so if they win those 2, they get 102 points.

And the 105pt season benefitted from 7 shootout points.

So 98pts without shootouts.

 

[The CyNick]

Every one of those disasters easily tradeable for great returns, if we wanted to.

Unlike Lou's disasters.

What does this have to do with Lou? Its tough, but try to stick to the subject.

So you think you sign guys like that to trade them?

Tavares return with be awful right now. Marner return would likely disappoint you. Nylander would be okay. Matthews would get a good haul but only from one of the teams he's considering for his next deal, so the market for a trade would be very limited.

All very bad deals that set the franchise back. And deals they continue to pay the price on. This past season losing Hyman. Next season losing Reilly.

 

[egd27]

Or we could choose not to ignore last regular season.

Why would I ignore it?

That would be the one they achieved 100 points under Coach Babcock.....correct?

And I realize there are a whole pile of new ways of doing math since I was in school, but 105 is still more than 100.....correct?

 

[notbias]

What does this have to do with Lou? Is tough, but try to stick to the subject.

So you think you sign guys like that to trade them?

Tavares return with be awful right now. Marner return would likely disappoint you. Nylander would be okay. Matthews would get a good haul but only from one of the teams he's considering for his next deal, so the market for a trade would be very limited.

All very bad deals that set the franchise back. And deals they continue to pay the price on. This past season losing Hyman. Next season losing Reilly.

Your player evaluation is hilarious at best.

Upset we didn't sign Hyman at 5.5 and think each of the big 4 will be a disappointing return?

 

[Golden_Jet]

And the 105pt season benefitted from 7 shootout points.

So 98pts without shootouts.

Ok thanks, but not like we should start removing points to begin with, can’t remove or add wins to fit a narrative imo, they still played the games. Also 100 point seasons are now inflated due to the 3 point games, compared to 100 point seasons with ties.

 

[zeke]

What does this have to do with Lou? Is tough, but try to stick to the subject.

So you think you sign guys like that to trade them?

Tavares return with be awful right now. Marner return would likely disappoint you. Nylander would be okay. Matthews would get a good haul but only from one of the teams he's considering for his next deal, so the market for a trade would be very limited.

All very bad deals that set the franchise back. And deals they continue to pay the price on. This past season losing Hyman. Next season losing Reilly.

I wouldn't trade any of them, of course.

But if you don't think teams would be lining up to trade for C that's been q0th in C scoring the past 2yrs, signed for 4yrs from ages 31-34, for only $7m/yr in real money, you're kidding yourself.

Similarly, if you think teams wouldn't be falling all over themselves to trade for a 24yr old 4th overall scorer that plays in all situations, you don't know hockey.

 

[zeke]

Why would I ignore it?

That would be the one they achieved 100 points under Coach Babcock.....correct?

And I realize there are a whole pile of new ways of doing math since I was in school, but 105 is still more than 100.....correct?

You agree that getting 105pts in 56gms would be pretty much impossible, correct

So why are you pretendjng that Kyle not beating 105pts last year in a 56gm schedule is a legitimate criticism?

 

[The CyNick]

Your player evaluation is hilarious at best.

Upset we didn't sign Hyman at 5.5 and think each of the big 4 will be a disappointing return?

What do you think Tavares fetches in trade today?

 

[zeke]

Ok thanks, but not like we should start removing points to begin with, can’t remove or add wins to fit a narrative imo, they still played the games. Also 100 point seasons are now inflated due to the 3 point games, compared to 100 point seasons with ties.

Hey we have all sorts of ways to judge team performance.

Some here are holding up total points as a perfect standard to judge. I personally don't think shootout points are relevant at all, though.

But like I said- it's up to you if you want to judge a team by shootout points

 

[The CyNick]

I wouldn't trade any of them, of course.

But if you don't think teams would be lining up to trade for C that's been q0th in C scoring the past 2yrs, signed for 4yrs from ages 31-34, for only $7m/yr in real money, you're kidding yourself.

Similarly, if you think teams wouldn't be falling all over themselves to trade for a 24yr old 4th overall scorer that plays in all situations, you don't know hockey.

Unfortunately there's a cap, which makes a declining Tavares a tough sell.

That's the problem. The guys who know hockey know Marner disappears when it counts. A garbage franchise may trade for him to get a perceived star in the lineup, but a well run franchise looking to win a Cup wouldn't pay top dollar to trade for him. But it's all hypothetical, so it's just one man's opinion vs another.

 

[Gabriel426]

105 Regular season points and 1 st round exit or 95 points and Conf Finals?

I would take the 95 pts and Conf Finals over 105 pts and 1st round exit.

I don't want to go who cares about regular season points but playoffs results are more important and it has always been the case.

 

[Racer88]

Like I said - up to you if you want to judge teams by shootout points.

I judge the team by all the games they play. I do not remove the ones that don’t fit my narrative.
That is a slippery slope.