The New and really Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

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Kyle Dubas discussion thread continues .....

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[LeafChief]

Let's all freak out!

 

[Pookie]

Maybe this new thread can bring about an answer to this question

Let’s grant that statistics have a place in the game. They can factor into personnel decisions, tactics and the like.

but it’s more than just numbers.

it’s doing something with them.

As Dubas once said, “Basically, there is a big difference between raw statistics and data gathering and using that data to incorporate into your process as a team”

Question:
What evidence is there that he is any good at running a department that will incorporate data into their process as a team?

 

[egd27]

Question:
What evidence is there that he is any good at running a department that will incorporate data into their process as a team?

There isn't any.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Dubas needs thm to win him a few rounds. It would be a disaster losing him and bringing in the dinosaur that would hard correct the team into gritty cavemen

 

[egd27]

Dubas needs thm to win him a few rounds. It would be a disaster losing him and bringing in the dinosaur that would hard correct the team into gritty cavemen

Maybe there's other options between cavemen and top heavy skill based?

 

[Zybalto]

you have some good ways to look at but I think you need to Bob Ross this a bit and complete the full picture.

you are focused on goaltending in elimination games.

a series is a culmination of all games.

as measured by save percentage, we had the 2nd best performance in net over the 2021 playoffs.​

We were also one of the best defensive teams in the first round led by arguably the best defensive line in the first round, the Matthews/Marner line. It sure makes things easier to stop the puck when way more shots/chances are going the other way. Measured over the entire playoffs, we had the best defensive team out of all 16 (although I'd like to stick to the first round)

There are always multiple teams that fall in the first round for the reasons the Leafs did. The 1st place pens only lost to the Islanders because of the massive difference in net. Team save% in that series was 92.33% to 88.83% while the Pens had the better of the play and were also one of the best defensive teams in the first round. Thats how important goaltending is. Jarry was a disaster. You switch the goalies and the Isles dont make it out of the first IMO.The Oilers were a hyper version of goaltending difference and depth issues but that was more on their keeper being worse than Campbell though.......it didnt mean McDavid and Drai wernt two of the best players in the first round and Crosby had great underlying numbers too.....but it still remains he only has 5 points the past two playoffs due to facing Price and Varly playing lights out back to back while his keeping was subpar. On the surface it looks like Crosby played like crap though. He didnt.

It's true, gotta look at the complete picture.

 

[Maple Leaf]

dubas thinks the nhl is the ohl

 

[FiveHoleo]

Maybe this new thread can bring about an answer to this question

Let’s grant that statistics have a place in the game. They can factor into personnel decisions, tactics and the like.

but it’s more than just numbers.

it’s doing something with them.

As Dubas once said, “Basically, there is a big difference between raw statistics and data gathering and using that data to incorporate into your process as a team”

Question:
What evidence is there that he is any good at running a department that will incorporate data into their process as a team?

The failure of the team in the playoffs is a pretty good indication he is incorporating data into his processes. If he weren't they would be making moves to make the team a playoff winner instead of just getting good prices for borderline top 9 players with sweet underlying statistics who will disappear once the games mean something. The proof is in the coach's goofy refusal to change any lines or tactics as the series against Montreal slipped away. The numbers say the Leafs are the best, our job is done.

 

[Stephen]

Maybe there's other options between cavemen and top heavy skill based?

The acquisitions of guys like Foligno, Simmonds, Bogosian, Ritchie, Gabriel, etc. over the past couple of seasons would suggest that Dubas is trying to find a balance of non skill elements to high end skill that works in all situations.

 

[Pookie]

The acquisitions of guys like Foligno, Simmonds, Bogosian, Ritchie, Gabriel, etc. over the past couple of seasons would suggest that Dubas is trying to find a balance of non skill elements to high end skill that works in all situations.

How do you have a balance when you play Marner 27 mins?

his core needs grit. Not a bottom 3 role guy.

 

[Stephen]

How do you have a balance when you play Marner 27 mins?

his core needs grit. Not a bottom 3 role guy.

That's a deeper philosophical question and a franchise changing move that seems to be reserved for the next regime, if applicable.

 

[Racer88]

The acquisitions of guys like Foligno, Simmonds, Bogosian, Ritchie, Gabriel, etc. over the past couple of seasons would suggest that Dubas is trying to find a balance of non skill elements to high end skill that works in all situations.

That’s really hard to do when you have spent all the money on 4 guys.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

We were also one of the best defensive teams in the first round led by arguably the best defensive line in the first round, the Matthews/Marner line. It sure makes things easier to stop the puck when way more shots/chances are going the other way. Measured over the entire playoffs, we had the best defensive team out of all 16 (although I'd like to stick to the first round)

There are always multiple teams that fall in the first round for the reasons the Leafs did. The 1st place pens only lost to the Islanders because of the massive difference in net. Team save% in that series was 92.33% to 88.83% while the Pens had the better of the play and were also one of the best defensive teams in the first round. Thats how important goaltending is. Jarry was a disaster. You switch the goalies and the Isles dont make it out of the first IMO.The Oilers were a hyper version of goaltending difference and depth issues but that was more on their keeper being worse than Campbell though.......it didnt mean McDavid and Drai wernt two of the best players in the first round and Crosby had great underlying numbers too.....but it still remains he only has 5 points the past two playoffs due to facing Price and Varly playing lights out back to back while his keeping was subpar. On the surface it looks like Crosby played like crap though. He didnt.

It's true, gotta look at the complete picture.

Im not going to comment on the rest of the post but I wonder if the Matthews/Maner line being the best defensively might also have to do with how Montreal tried to play them. Basically get the Danault line to match against them with their sole purpose to stop M&M from scoring. If neither line scored that is a big win for Montreal.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

The acquisitions of guys like Foligno, Simmonds, Bogosian, Ritchie, Gabriel, etc. over the past couple of seasons would suggest that Dubas is trying to find a balance of non skill elements to high end skill that works in all situations.

Agreed, the issue is there isn't the cap to get those type of players (who can still play the game well) in the top 6 and have the skill to compliment the big 4. Hopefully Ritchie can be that guy?

 

[Pookie]

That's a deeper philosophical question and a franchise changing move that seems to be reserved for the next regime, if applicable.

Reserved for the next regime because the current one is incapable of a course correction?

Fletcher was here for a couple years before he dealt Clark for Sundin.

is Kyle not capable of such a decision?

 

[Pookie]

We were also one of the best defensive teams in the first round led by arguably the best defensive line in the first round, the Matthews/Marner line. It sure makes things easier to stop the puck when way more shots/chances are going the other way. Measured over the entire playoffs, we had the best defensive team out of all 16 (although I'd like to stick to the first round)

There are always multiple teams that fall in the first round for the reasons the Leafs did. The 1st place pens only lost to the Islanders because of the massive difference in net. Team save% in that series was 92.33% to 88.83% while the Pens had the better of the play and were also one of the best defensive teams in the first round. Thats how important goaltending is. Jarry was a disaster. You switch the goalies and the Isles dont make it out of the first IMO.The Oilers were a hyper version of goaltending difference and depth issues but that was more on their keeper being worse than Campbell though.......it didnt mean McDavid and Drai wernt two of the best players in the first round and Crosby had great underlying numbers too.....but it still remains he only has 5 points the past two playoffs due to facing Price and Varly playing lights out back to back while his keeping was subpar. On the surface it looks like Crosby played like crap though. He didnt.

It's true, gotta look at the complete picture.

If goaltending is a factor... didn’t Dubas trade for Campbell?

can’t the stats help our goalies out?

if Goaltending is the difference maker... that can overcome skill upfront... trade a core piece for a really good one.

I assume he can identify a really good one right?

 

[Racer88]

If goaltending is a factor... didn’t Dubas trade for Campbell?

can’t the stats help our goalies out?

if Goaltending is the difference maker... that can overcome skill upfront... trade a core piece for a really good one.

I assume he can identify a really good one right?

That’s kinda what I have been thinking. All we hear is the team that sent us golfing had this great goalie that shut down our dominating team……..when does our great goalie get here?

 

[Slyfox]

Unfortunately the NHL has two set of rules one for the regular season and one of the playoffs. To win in the playoffs you need a different set of skills or hope the NHL decides to call the rulebook. Dubas has realized this but imo course corrected to much towards grit and veteran leadership. This group seems more balanced. Hopefully McDavid calling out the refs causes the NHL to change the rules in the playoffs

 

[ULF_55]

That's a deeper philosophical question and a franchise changing move that seems to be reserved for the next regime, if applicable.

And for this past playoffs shows it requires you have a healthy lineup.

The newly acquired grit was unable to perform for health reasons.

So 1st line MIA and the players brought in were MIA.

As much as Dubas is the GM he will never be able to heal the sick or try harder on the ice.

 

[ITM]

That’s kinda what I have been thinking. All we hear is the team that sent us golfing had this great goalie that shut down our dominating team……..when does our great goalie get here?

Campbell played great. Our club, with a Rocket winner and a top ten scoring winger couldn't contribute one goal in three games to close the series.

Price played great in those three games. Then he continued to play great against teams that may have sent our club packing in subsequent rounds.

Jack Campbell wasn't remotely the problem anymore than Sundin watching the games in Sweden was the problem.

There's a story about Gretzky going into the Islanders room after they won their fourth Cup. Instead of seeing a party Gretzky walked into a quiet room of champions putting ice on injuries. He's stated, from that moment on he understood what was required.

Sadly, as I've mentioned countless times here, our club is waiting to truly understand how to win. And it's more likely than not going to take losing in the second round, the Conference Finals and the Cup Finals to do so.

THEN, if there's a team that's left with identity and experience, then, we can expect something great.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Knies iT]

The acquisitions of guys like Foligno, Simmonds, Bogosian, Ritchie, Gabriel, etc. over the past couple of seasons would suggest that Dubas is trying to find a balance of non skill elements to high end skill that works in all situations.

Muzzin, Clifford, Foligno, Simmonds, Bogosian, Ritchie, Gabriel, Sabourin, and offered Hakaanpa the CAR deal.

Lou acquired Martin, Boyle, and….?

Dubas needs to find a way to add a top 6 player like the above (no, Ritchie is not that), but to say he’s allergic to this style of player is hilarious.

 

[ULF_55]

Muzzin, Clifford, Foligno, Simmonds, Bogosian, Ritchie, Gabriel, Sabourin, and offered Hakaanpa the CAR deal.

Lou acquired Martin, Boyle, and….?

Dubas needs to find a way to add a top 6 player like the above (no, Ritchie is not that), but to say he’s allergic to this style of player is hilarious.

Funny thing is they didn't lose because of grit they lost because they didn't score.

Teams have to get scoring from all lines and that didn't happen.

 

[Stephen]

Reserved for the next regime because the current one is incapable of a course correction?

Fletcher was here for a couple years before he dealt Clark for Sundin.

is Kyle not capable of such a decision?

Well, we can debate as fans all we want but the management team doesn’t see it as a course correction to make a Sundin for Clark deal. So if the recipe doesn’t work it will naturally fall on the next management team to make that move. Until then…

 

[Knies iT]

Rate Dubas At The Trade Deadline

“Fire Dubas even though I support his moves.”