The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[oilers4life5]

Man I still hate not keeping both these players. Frustrating. We are going to burn more assets to improve.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I mean Janmark has more points than every forward not named McDavid or Draisatl currently.

He's really having an incredible year. He's also the only one of our senior forwards that has continued to play at a level approaching what we saw in playoffs. Good for Janmark. Nothing but work and results from him. A few other players on the club could be looking at his work rate.

 

[TheNumber4]

Hope they both fail. And I don’t care if that ain’t classy. They are either Oilers or they are nothing to me.

 

[Drivesaitl]

There’s a lot of editorializing going on in that article so I’ll just post the direct quote:

“But I also wanted a little bit more opportunity too." Foegele said on Friday, via NHL.com, "Obviously having (Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl), the two best players in the world, it's hard to get ice, right? So for me, I was like, I think I'm at that stage in my career where I can take on more and I wanted a bigger role."


Foegele had the exact same attitude coming out of Carolina. His chip on his shoulder playing against the Canes also came from a perceived lack of “opportunity” (Top 6 Minutes).

But there was reasons for that lack of trust. His hands would always fail him right at the end of a great play. It was like he had the yips and couldn’t finish. He got better in Edmonton as time went on. No doubt time training with McDavid every offseason helped with that.

And he was given opportunity plenty of times in Edmonton. He got time with McD and Drai. Not anyone’s fault he didn’t take it and run with it. Hyman took it and ran with it.

I’ll also say, the reason he “moved on” is also cause the Kings paid him what we were unwilling to pay him after 2 completely shit post seasons. One where he was completely invisible and the second where he was worse than invisible and actively hurt us with bad turnovers. So he leaves out an important reason why he left: “money”.

Side note, on Oilers Plus they had a segment on the girlfriends trip. And I swear it was Foegeles girlfriend when asked about living in Edmonton, scoffed and laughed at the idea. The only girlfriend to show a lack of class when answering that question.

Thank you for posting this. It wasn't at all the blame game that the headline hinted at.

As for the Kings paying for players that are invisible in playoffs, well, all of them are now. heh

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

He's really having an incredible year. He's also the only one of our senior forwards that has continued to play at a level approaching what we saw in playoffs. Good for Janmark. Nothing but work and results from him. A few other players on the club could be looking at his work rate.

Just also goes to show how once again the depth isn't producing. I'm so tired of this problem.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Hope they both fail. And I don’t care if that ain’t classy. They are either Oilers or they are nothing to me.

A lot of posters say this but I'm just not built this way. To me players that have been around here, I start getting attached. I loved hockey the most when teams would have much the same players every year. Newer generations of fans love the EA and gaming trade influence and embrace the change. I think theres too much change in a lot of lineups. I would prefer Winnipeg model where the players stay on mostly and with less roster change. Broberg I didn't have so much attachment to as he wasn't here in lineup long enough. But I loved Holloway immediately and felt he was a player we could use. Always loved McLeod. Foegele I had a mixed relationship with because he just wasn't digging down a lot of the time and giving all he's got. Always felt Foegele could hit 40-50pt seasons.

 

[TheNumber4]

A lot of posters say this but I'm just not built this way. To me players that have been around here, I start getting attached. I loved hockey the most when teams would have much the same players every year. Newer generations of fans love the EA and gaming trade influence and embrace the change. I think theres too much change in a lot of lineups. I would prefer Winnipeg model where the players stay on mostly and with less roster change. Broberg I didn't have so much attachment to as he wasn't here in lineup long enough. But I loved Holloway immediately and felt he was a player we could use. Always loved McLeod. Foegele I had a mixed relationship with because he just wasn't digging down a lot of the time and giving all he's got. Always felt Foegele could hit 40-50pt seasons.

I won’t blame any of these guys for moving on. It wasn’t even their fault. But I won’t cheer for them. I don’t cheer for any random player on some other team, and that’s what these players are when they leave. I can still like their game though and there’s plenty of players in the League that I like based off their play, but I’m just done cheering for them. For me, Oilers above all else. Which is completely homeristic, but I don’t care, that’s always where my loyalties have been and I can’t change that.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I won’t blame any of these guys for moving on. It wasn’t even their fault. But I won’t cheer for them. I don’t cheer for any random player on some other team, and that’s what these players are when they leave. I can still like their game though and there’s plenty of players in the League that I like based off their play, but I’m just done cheering for them. For me, Oilers above all else. Which is completely homeristic, but I don’t care, that’s always where my loyalties have been and I can’t change that.

Oh, its fine. Just that we all have differing reactions. For instance I didn't stop being a Ryan Smyth fan just because he wasn't here. Continued to follow him, watch him. With some players you just embrace them, and no comparison, but something in McLeod I really liked. Holloway too. Sometimes I'm more a fan of hockey rather than just the logo. From around 93-2005 and then again from 2007-15 it was mostly what one had to do to continue being a fan and following. Remember going to around 50 games here where you would only see one good or even NHL looking team on the ice. So thats kind of where I come from. I was here for WHA when the team wasn't much (until Gretz) and here for the glory years and after when it was tough sledding. For sure I followed Gretz, Mess, Coffey, Fuhr, Anderson away from here. The Rangers cup win was essentially an Oilers Alumni win.

Your explanation makes complete sense.

Just also goes to show how once again the depth isn't producing. I'm so tired of this problem.

With some like Ryan it wasn't even possible that they would produce. But others like Connor Brown are supposed to be producing. He's been junk. I get particularly on that guy because he sold himself to the team two years running now and said a bunch of things he's failed to deliver on both seasons. Before coming here he said he was a healthy bill of goods and would be prepared to have his best season. Then after the season he said he was still struggling physically and would be ready to go this season. Now whats his excuse?

 

[TheNumber4]

Oh, its fine. Just that we all have differing reactions. For instance I didn't stop being a Ryan Smyth fan just because he wasn't here. Continued to follow him, watch him. With some players you just embrace them, and no comparison, but something in McLeod I really liked. Holloway too. Sometimes I'm more a fan of hockey rather than just the logo. From around 93-2005 and then again from 2007-15 it was mostly what one had to do to continue being a fan and following. Remember going to around 50 games here where you would only see one good or even NHL looking team on the ice. So thats kind of where I come from. I was here for WHA when the team wasn't much (until Gretz) and here for the glory years and after when it was tough sledding. For sure I followed Gretz, Mess, Coffey, Fuhr, Anderson away from here. The Rangers cup win was essentially an Oilers Alumni win.

Your explanation makes complete sense.


With some like Ryan it wasn't even possible that they would produce. But others like Connor Brown are supposed to be producing. He's been junk. I get particularly on that guy because he sold himself to the team two years running now and said a bunch of things he's failed to deliver on both seasons. Before coming here he said he was a healthy bill of goods and would be prepared to have his best season. Then after the season he said he was still struggling physically and would be ready to go this season. Now whats his excuse?

Hm. Your Smytty example makes me think I may have over spoken. I can’t lie and say I didn’t miss him. That one hit the heart strings. And yeh imma miss Clouder. Shoulda been an Oiler for life.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Right, but it didn't have to be that way had management not slept on it. We lost two valuable pieces for basically nothing as there isn't a chance in hell the draft picks they returned will turn into something as useful as them.

This has been repeated so many times now that people basically take it as truth at this point.

The players waited for better offers. No one was "sleeping". We could not afford to pay that kind of money for futures.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This has been repeated so many times now that people basically take it as truth at this point.

The players waited for better offers. No one was "sleeping". We could not afford to pay that kind of money for futures.

Instead we paid it for Skinner and Arviddson, Ryan, Brown etc who's futures seem not so bright. We could certainly have afforded to retain our players had the GM not gone on an odd shopping trip.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Instead we paid it for Skinner and Arviddson, Ryan, Brown etc who's futures seem not so bright. We could certainly have afforded to retain our players had the GM not gone on an odd shopping trip.

And do you think the players are worth their salaries on a window team?

Again, they were offered reasonable contracts for their age and situation by all accounts. They rejected them because someone might be willing to overpay.

O-V-E-R-P-A-Y.

Ryan and Brown are lazy arguments, they are at or near league minimum and thus have zero bearing on the discussion. If you itch to bring up Brown's bonus (again) we both know it's irrelevant since it was signed last summer.

And yeah I find it pretty reasonable to bring in guys like Skinner and Arvidsson. Only problem is the coach seems a bit surprised at what kind of player Skinner is.

 

[Spawn]

Just also goes to show how once again the depth isn't producing. I'm so tired of this problem.

We've actually been getting a bit more depth production of late. The big thing that's still hurting our production is our top 6 wingers are still blisteringly cold (and also hurt in Arvidsson and Hyman's case).

 

[ManofSteel55]

We've actually been getting a bit more depth production of late. The big thing that's still hurting our production is our top 6 wingers are still blisteringly cold (and also hurt in Arvidsson and Hyman's case).

This. We need to temper expectations for some of our forwards, but there is a group of four that are underperforming statistically that haven't helped us out at all in the standings - Nuge, Jeff Skinner, Hyman and Arvidsson. Coincidentally, all of the guys who should be our top six wingers.

 

[AM]

P

This. We need to temper expectations for some of our forwards, but there is a group of four that are underperforming statistically that haven't helped us out at all in the standings - Nuge, Jeff Skinner, Hyman and Arvidsson. Coincidentally, all of the guys who should be our top six wingers.

I would rather they be cold now then 5 months from now.

 

[oobga]

Hope they both fail. And I don’t care if that ain’t classy. They are either Oilers or they are nothing to me.

A pox on both their houses!

 

[ManofSteel55]

P

I would rather they be cold now then 5 months from now.

Absolutely. I'll be more worried if this is still an issue in February.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

This has been repeated so many times now that people basically take it as truth at this point.

The players waited for better offers. No one was "sleeping". We could not afford to pay that kind of money for futures.

The Blues structured their contracts so they would pay as much as possible without giving up better assets. I doubt either Broberg or Holloway were expecting the contracts they were offered. The Blues overpaid without a doubt, but they still got two reasonably good young players coming off a deep playoff run. The Oilers get a couple of picks that they'll no doubt piss up the wall like virtually every draft pick they had the past half decade.

The Oilers blew their load on Arvidsson and Skinner who have both shown exactly why their former teams moved on from them so far. Sorry, but the fact that neither could get signed before their offer sheets falls squarely on management. If we had only lost one that would be far easier to digest. Instead we wasted valuable picks and development time for nothing.

 

[Fishy McScales]

The Blues structured their contracts so they would pay as much as possible without giving up better assets. I doubt either Broberg or Holloway were expecting the contracts they were offered. The Blues overpaid without a doubt, but they still got two reasonably good young players coming off a deep playoff run. The Oilers get a couple of picks that they'll no doubt piss up the wall like virtually every draft pick they had the past half decade.

The Oilers blew their load on Arvidsson and Skinner who have both shown exactly why their former teams moved on from them so far. Sorry, but the fact that neither could get signed before their offer sheets falls squarely on management. If we had only lost one that would be far easier to digest. Instead we wasted valuable picks and development time for nothing.

Again, you have repeated this to yourself until it became true.

There were reports the players were aware offer sheets might be coming, or they were just waiting and hoping. RFA's often get signed late.

Obviously Armstrong structured it so as to make the compensation as low as possible with the salary as high as possible. Yes? That is why the Oilers didn't match. What are we even arguing about there?

 

[Drivesaitl]

And do you think the players are worth their salaries on a window team?

Again, they were offered reasonable contracts for their age and situation by all accounts. They rejected them because someone might be willing to overpay.

O-V-E-R-P-A-Y.

Ryan and Brown are lazy arguments, they are at or near league minimum and thus have zero bearing on the discussion. If you itch to bring up Brown's bonus (again) we both know it's irrelevant since it was signed last summer.

And yeah I find it pretty reasonable to bring in guys like Skinner and Arvidsson. Only problem is the coach seems a bit surprised at what kind of player Skinner is.

Reasonable offers according to who? Clearly the offers were lowballs to players that the Oilers devalued throughout and they ended up losing them because of it. I maintain that Broberg is worth more and same price as say Arviddson. I maintain McLeod and Holloway are better to have then say Connor Brown, Skinner, and Ryan. You know collectively we're paying MORE for these players right?

My argument was that the players could have been retained. Of course they could have. When no results are occurring with the players brought in you just default to "they aren't being used properly"

lol so now Browns contract, which is eating cap this year is irrelevant because the contract was signed last year. Thats really your view?

Coach surprised about what kind of player Skinner is? I was saying that in July. J Skinner is -9, is underperforming in every aspect, and is arguably the worst player not named Ryan and has had his minutes reduced, been demoted to bottomsix repeatedly. This guy was never going to row as hard as a contender team needs him to do in a profile role. He's never even played on a good club.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We've actually been getting a bit more depth production of late. The big thing that's still hurting our production is our top 6 wingers are still blisteringly cold (and also hurt in Arvidsson and Hyman's case).

Which players and what goals are you considering in this depth production? A late Skinner goal in a blowout? We're getting a lot of goals from D, we're getting a ton of goals from Drai and McD. Which goals are you speaking of? Our bottomsix forwards in particularly are hardly contributing at all. When they do it tends to be against weak opposition and in blowouts.

 

[McBooya42]

JFC people...move on already. This is getting silly.

 

[TheNumber4]

Listened to Spittin Chiclets and Marek brought up a story about how he knew a team that absolutely hated a player for signing an offersheet. To the team it was like the player gave up on them and wanted to leave.

Another story brought up is why Fedorov’s number is not retired in Detroit. There’s bad blood there too by ownership, cause Fedorov signed the offersheet in Carolina.

Holloway looked like a guilty puppy after the offersheet in his interview. I don’t think he wanted to leave, I think he was pressured by his agent and the situation. Maybe I’ll give him a pass.

But Broberg can go f*** himself.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Listened to Spittin Chiclets and Marek brought up a story about how he knew a team that absolutely hated a player for signing an offersheet. To the team it was like the player gave up on them and wanted to leave.

Another story brought up is why Fedorov’s number is not retired in Detroit. There’s bad blood there too by ownership, cause Fedorov signed the offersheet in Carolina.

Holloway looked like a guilty puppy after the offersheet in his interview. I don’t think he wanted to leave, I think he was pressured by his agent and the situation. Maybe I’ll give him a pass.

But Broberg can go f*** himself.

meh. Broberg had upside as a talented PMD and they don't grow on trees. His primary areas of work were settling in and calming to the pace of NHL and growing some strength so that he could withstand NHL physicality and battle better. For the most part he did that. Still some health questions but the player made all the improvements requested.

Feel as if Woody hampered Broberg develoment here and specifically favoring Desharnais over giving Bro more games. Broberg knew the org wasn't making him any priority and moved on. He got paid. I don't blame anybody for going where they are wanted. Its standard issue that people go to work for employers that value them. Its standard recognition this is the right path. to take.

This is business. People getting paid. As fans we want loyalty. Without the dollars signed it doesn't exist.

Could be about Holloway. But he got only 36 games from the club last season. Should've been more.

JFC people...move on already. This is getting silly.

There hasn't been a game on all week. So the discussion inevitably goes back to other than game talking points. I didn't start them. Other people were having the discussion.

 

[TheNumber4]

meh. Broberg had upside as a talented PMD and they don't grow on trees. His primary areas of work were settling in and calming to the pace of NHL and growing some strength so that he could withstand NHL physicality and battle better. For the most part he did that. Still some health questions but the player made all the improvements requested.

Feel as if Woody hampered Broberg develoment here and specifically favoring Desharnais over giving Bro more games. Broberg knew the org wasn't making him any priority and moved on. He got paid. I don't blame anybody for going where they are wanted. Its standard issue that people go to work for employers that value them. Its standard recognition this is the right path. to take.

This is business. People getting paid. As fans we want loyalty. Without the dollars signed it doesn't exist.

Could be about Holloway. But he got only 36 games from the club last season. Should've been more.


There hasn't been a game on all week. So the discussion inevitably goes back to other than game talking points. I didn't start them. Other people were having the discussion.

Broberg needed to be the AHL last year. It was the best thing that could have happened to him and his development. Over ripening for defenceman is never a bad idea. Especially given Brobergs propensity for getting hit and getting hurt. The Oilers made the right call by letting him stew and he came out the better layer because of it.

Maybe he shouldn’t have been yo-yo’d between the NHL/AHL. Maybe. But it’s not like NHL teams don’t have needs too. Sometimes we need injury coverage or serine’s we just plain make a mistake and think he’s ready to step in. Whatever it was I don’t think the what the Oilers did warranted Broberg or his agent crying over it. Many prospects put their head down and go to work instead of crying. Broberg acted entitled like Puljujaarvi before him.