Ismellofhockey
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- Mar 31, 2002
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The Czechoslovak split and what it meant for their national teams
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Kaizer
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As I know they began their way from Div. 3. Not All stars played with them at that level. Only Visnovsky was with team there as I know. But when they made Div. 1 (1996 as I know) they can bring all their stars together and be very competitive team - it helped them to won first medal at WC 2000 in St. Petersburgh and gold medals at WC 2002.Ismellofhockey said:
http://www.slovakradio.sk/rsi/ru/sport/image/1405_hokej5.jpg
http://www.slovakradio.sk/rsi/ru/sport/image/1405_hokej6.jpg
http://www.slovakradio.sk/rsi/ru/sport/image/1405_hokej3.jpg http://www.slovakradio.sk/rsi/ru/sport/image/1405_hokej1.jpg
http://www.slovakradio.sk/rsi/ru/sport/image/1405_hokej2.jpg
They have very consistent team in terms of roster. All their stars always play for national team (we have to study from them about it) and that makes them so dangerous.
Probably, #12 Peter Bondra will tell you more about it.
Well, I was too young in 93 to remember. I started watching hockey in 96 and we were in the WC's by then.
We got relegated to Div 3 in 93, thats what I know. We got straight up to the top Division in 2 years and have been there since.
We have had a worse program for developing players and nothing new has happened in this area since socialism fell. In the next 10 years, we wont have many talents as there have been 0 new stadiums built in the last 5-7 years and everything is getting more expensive.
Players (I think) decided where they wanted to go and play, but mostly went by birthplace (I think).
There are talks about our hockey leagues connecting again, so maybe we will be back in a CZE-SVK League again. Its still very far though.
We got relegated to Div 3 in 93, thats what I know. We got straight up to the top Division in 2 years and have been there since.
We have had a worse program for developing players and nothing new has happened in this area since socialism fell. In the next 10 years, we wont have many talents as there have been 0 new stadiums built in the last 5-7 years and everything is getting more expensive.
Players (I think) decided where they wanted to go and play, but mostly went by birthplace (I think).
There are talks about our hockey leagues connecting again, so maybe we will be back in a CZE-SVK League again. Its still very far though.
I remember discovering Slovakia during the 1994 olympics. Their performance was a positive surprise as no one expected them to be that close from the top 6 considering that most of team Czechoslovakia's players were now playing for the Czech Republic. After this tournament, they were expected to quickly reach the top pool and did so, winning the 1994 C pool and the 1995 B pool. They then needed two years to establish themselves in the top 8, and are a contender since 2000.
Following Slovakia's rise was interesting, and considering that they neither have the player depth, nor the league level of the other best european countries, it will be interesting to see if they can stay a perennial contender in the futur.
Following Slovakia's rise was interesting, and considering that they neither have the player depth, nor the league level of the other best european countries, it will be interesting to see if they can stay a perennial contender in the futur.
I remember the 94´ olympiques. Boy did I love their firstline back then, well I only remember 2/3 of it. A really young Miroslav Satan and a 40 y/o Peter Stastny. I think Satan even won the scoring league in the 94 olympiques.
Like stv11 said the Slovak league level isn't the best. My old team in Sweden brought in 4 guys from the Slovak top league who had posted really good numbers there. They didn't accomplish anything at all in 3rd tier swedish hockey and got sent home one by one.
However they do have a few really strong club teams, like Dukla Trencin, HS Kosice and Slovan Bratislava that will keep producing good players. I have also heard reports on that they have a strong eliteprogram for promising young players from a really young age. My bet is that they will keep producing a few really good players but never on a level so that they could be a constant powerhouse. Once in a while when they get together a good mix they will be able to challenge the best.
It will also be exciting to see if a country like Germany, Latvia, Swiss, Belarus, Denmark or Norway will take their game to a new level. I think these countrys made really good strides in the late 90´ to close the gap but now it seems that a few of them have taken a step back.
Like stv11 said the Slovak league level isn't the best. My old team in Sweden brought in 4 guys from the Slovak top league who had posted really good numbers there. They didn't accomplish anything at all in 3rd tier swedish hockey and got sent home one by one.
However they do have a few really strong club teams, like Dukla Trencin, HS Kosice and Slovan Bratislava that will keep producing good players. I have also heard reports on that they have a strong eliteprogram for promising young players from a really young age. My bet is that they will keep producing a few really good players but never on a level so that they could be a constant powerhouse. Once in a while when they get together a good mix they will be able to challenge the best.
It will also be exciting to see if a country like Germany, Latvia, Swiss, Belarus, Denmark or Norway will take their game to a new level. I think these countrys made really good strides in the late 90´ to close the gap but now it seems that a few of them have taken a step back.
Douggy
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Hmm... so do people seem to think that the Slovaks are in a 'golden age' and will eventually fall to the level of Switzerland/Latvia/Belarus??
Ismellofhockey
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- Mar 31, 2002
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So basically they were relegated to Div.III and had to win their way up, their hockey program is worse off and players were given the choice to join with either team like the old USSR players.
Thanks for the info!
With things going so poorly for the Liberals in Quebec and Canada, sovereignty being a real possibility made me wonder if Quebec could have it's own team playing in the 2008 WC which it hosts. 2008 is also Quebec City's 400th anniversary so a Quebec-Canada matchup in 2008 in Quebec City would just be pure havoc and countless riots.
Too bad it can't happen it would have been the one thing to lessen the blow of separation.
Thanks for the info!
With things going so poorly for the Liberals in Quebec and Canada, sovereignty being a real possibility made me wonder if Quebec could have it's own team playing in the 2008 WC which it hosts. 2008 is also Quebec City's 400th anniversary so a Quebec-Canada matchup in 2008 in Quebec City would just be pure havoc and countless riots.
Too bad it can't happen it would have been the one thing to lessen the blow of separation.
ALF AmericanLionsFan
Registered User
e-e
Registered User
stv11 said:
it's hard to say. back in czechoslovakia days czech players played for czech teams and slovaks for slovak team. that was almost exclusively. exceptions ware only cases of "army services" where every young man had to spand 2 years in army. there were 2 army clubs (dukla jihlava - czeck team and dukla trencin - slovak team).
and any player played where he was accepted. so players like ruzicka played in trencin and liba in jihlava for example.
in late 80's and early 90's 2 of slovak teams (vsz kosice, dukla trencin) were top 3 teams in czechoslovakia league. kosive took the gold in 1985/86 and 1997/88 and trencin a year letter (however i might mistaken on that one).
as for national team....it wasn't secret that a slovak player must be way better that czech player to make the team. so only few slovaks played for natioanl team. but that didn't mean that there wasn't talent.
back in those days...10 teams played in elite lique....7 czech teams and 3 slovak team. exept two mentioned above there was slovan bratislava which produced also great players (rusnak, pasek, stastny brothers,...)
the problem in early 90's when czechoslovakia split was that every good player left slovakia (NHL, AHL, sweden ligue, and ) and in late 90" to czech lugue as well.
another 7 (i quess) teams joined kosice, slovan and trencin to create slovak super - extra - ultra - ligue and exept ciger there wasnt a valuble player. since that day slovak ligue officialy sucks!
everbodu that can play hockey plays otside of slovakia.
What I wrote was a little unclear. By "most of team Czechoslovakia's players were now playing for the Czech Republic", I mean that the 94 czech team was very close from the 93 czechoslovakian team. Slovakia's performance at the 1994 Olympics was a surprise to most international hockey followers because most of its players were unknow at this level.
Shareefruck
Registered User
Damn.. If Czechs and Slovaks were still one nation, their best team might even be as stacked/well rounded as Canada's.
Goalies: Vokoun, Hasek, Cechmanek
Defensemen: Chara, Kubina, Hamrlik, Zidlicky, Visnovski, Fischer, Kaberle
Goalscorers: Elias, Jagr, Palffy, Hossa, Demitra, Lang, Satan, Hejduk, Havlat, Gaborik, Nagy, Straka
Defensive Forwards: Holik, Handzus, Dvorak, Rucinsky, Vasicek
and I'm pretty sure I'm missing some guys..
Goalies: Vokoun, Hasek, Cechmanek
Defensemen: Chara, Kubina, Hamrlik, Zidlicky, Visnovski, Fischer, Kaberle
Goalscorers: Elias, Jagr, Palffy, Hossa, Demitra, Lang, Satan, Hejduk, Havlat, Gaborik, Nagy, Straka
Defensive Forwards: Holik, Handzus, Dvorak, Rucinsky, Vasicek
and I'm pretty sure I'm missing some guys..
i think it is way better after the separation. Both teams are top of the world. In former Czechoslovakia, Slovak players had to be much better than Czechs to be nominated. In 1992 Ziggy Palffy was the top player in the league, but Ivan Hlinka did not nominate him. He said he was too young and he prefered player like Rosol. 
94 Olympis were great. First line of Satan, Stastny and Palffy played some great hockey. As well as former USSR countries like Ukraine, Belarus and Kazachstan were relegated to Div 3. Countries like France and Italy played at top level which was pretty strange. We won Div 3 in 94 and Div2 in 95, both played in Slovakia. We first played at top level in 96. Later we established in top 8. In 2000 in St. Petersburg we surprised and won silver medals. Since that time we are always medal candidates.
94 Olympis were great. First line of Satan, Stastny and Palffy played some great hockey. As well as former USSR countries like Ukraine, Belarus and Kazachstan were relegated to Div 3. Countries like France and Italy played at top level which was pretty strange. We won Div 3 in 94 and Div2 in 95, both played in Slovakia. We first played at top level in 96. Later we established in top 8. In 2000 in St. Petersburg we surprised and won silver medals. Since that time we are always medal candidates.
Rogalo
Registered User
2agingmonk said:
Bullsh.... There is no guarantee that the team would preform well as Czechoslovakia - especially with the tension between the nations. And believe me, there would have been tension if we continued to be a federation. Someone wrote the following on this forum and it is VERY TRUE: "If the tectonic plates have´nt moved, Pangea would have been one hellova team"
e-e
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Rogalo said:Bullsh.... There is no guarantee that the team would preform well as Czechoslovakia - especially with the tension between the nations. And believe me, there would have been tension if we continued to be a federation. Someone wrote the following on this forum and it is VERY TRUE: "If the tectonic plates have´nt moved, Pangea would have been one hellova team"
agree...it's much better for both countries that they have their own national team. there was always tension between czechs and slovaks in national team...the czechoslovakia finnished 7th in 1986 in moscow after the gold in prague 1985 because of the "great chemistry" in dressing room....does anybody rember a fight between peter slanina(slovak) and oldrich valek(czech) regarding czech - slovak relationschip in national hockey team of 80's?
after few years emotions on both sides calmed down and many people cheer for each other teams.
but games czechs against slovaks will probably be always something special for both sides.
i hope czech will take the gold from vienna this year
But thats like saying one tectonic plate now could be one team. EVEN if the tectonic plates havent moved, there would have been different nations = different teams.Rogalo said:Bullsh.... There is no guarantee that the team would preform well as Czechoslovakia - especially with the tension between the nations. And believe me, there would have been tension if we continued to be a federation. Someone wrote the following on this forum and it is VERY TRUE: "If the tectonic plates have´nt moved, Pangea would have been one hellova team"
==============================================================2agingmonk said:
"might even be"??!!
Much better for sure...No one could ever beat them
2agingmonk said:
Well, in fairness, I guess you'd have pretty impressive lineup if you combined ANY 2 of the 5 or 6 top hockey nations. Sweden - Finland? Russian - USA?
Shareefruck
Registered User
Compared to Canada's best possible lineup? I dunno about thaat.attis76 said:==============================================================
"might even be"??!!
Much better for sure...No one could ever beat them
Bertuzzi. Lemieux. Heatley
St. Louis. Sakic. Iginla
Smyth. Thornton. Yzerman
Walker. Primeau. Doan
Pronger. Niedermeiyer
Stevens. Blake
Foote. Redden ( MacInnis? )
Brodeur. Belfour. Luongo
Spares: Peca, Gagne/Morrow, Jovanovski/Bouwmeester
Canuck21t
Registered User
Ismellofhockey said:
It is very simple. Czechoslovakia was not monolithic state. It was FEDERATION. Just like the USA. When you are born in LA, I guess you become citizen of California and USA. In Europe (except UK) the system is a bit different. You are citizen of state of your parents. When you are born to Czech parents in Finland you get citizenship of the Czech Republic. But it is not important.
Simply those who had Slovakian citizenship in Federation became citizens of Slovakia. Those who were citizens of Czech Republic in Federation became automatically citizens of new Czech Republic. There were some exceptions (for mixed families etc. but again it is not important).
So the Federation just broke into 2 souvereign countries. Otherwise nothing has changed (junior systems etc).
I'd like to correct an info about only few Slovaks playing for Czech clubs and only few Czechs playing on Slovakia before 1989. For example Big Nedo (Vaclav Nedomansky - famous Czech player) played for Slovan Bratislava - Slovakian team. I could name tens of players.
I wouldn't say that you had to be far better player (as Slovak) to make team Czechoslovakia. There used to be good relationships between players. It changed after 1989 as Slovakia wanted to become souvereign Republic. Just recall guys like Peter Stastny, Miro Satan etc.
Finally. There is very little chance for new Czecho - Slovakian league. Nowadays only 2 Slovakian teams could play such a league - there are no more economically strong clubs that could compete with Czech teams. This league would probably help to Slovakian hockey but for Czechs it would be big step back. But as a fan I must say I am missing teams like Dukla Trencin or Slovan.
Rogalo
Registered User
12# Peter Bondra said:
Neser
But you do agree with me, or not? I mean a Czechoslovak team would have been a disaster. I am not thrilled with this fact (Im half Slovak) but that is just how things are and there is nothing anyone can do about it...I agree with you. Its better there are 2 teams than 1.Rogalo said:Neser
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