The Core and its flaw, imo.

[ACC1224]

Watched a bit of a game last night. After a goalie stopped a shot one of the forwards took a shot at him.....the other team went berserk....and then everyone on the ice was involved.
The leafs rarely ,if ever, respond this way....and lately their d men have been ragdolled all over the ice and they still don't respond.

Question....is this a team strategy?
And...how much effect does it have on winning and losing , especially in the playoffs?

The book is out that if you push them they don't like it. I don't think anyone can deny that this is a strategy any team will employ against the Leafs. Teams will continue to do it until it stops being successful.

 

[81Leafs50]

fans in Toronto still talking about size and toughness meanwhile the TB Lighnting are back to back champions. Nuff said.

 

[ShaneFalco]

fans in Toronto still talking about size and toughness meanwhile the TB Lighnting are back to back champions. Nuff said.

Ok ?

 

[Dekes For Days]

You're right, I named three of the top four teams, not the seventh (as you did). If you are using that as some way to demonstrate me shooting myself in the foot, you're being nonsensical.

I didn't say you were "shooting yourself in the foot". I just legitimately didn't understand why you were saying that only the top-3 teams can be contenders like it's some hard rule, while simultaneously including the 4th place team. We're currently 6th btw, not 7th (and spending a large portion of the season in the top-5), which would mean we're a contender by your new criteria as well.

Also for the record, the last 10 cup winners placed on average in the top 6 of the league standings.

The average rank of the last 10 cup winners is 6.3. We are 6th, and have a higher point percentage than 9 out of those 10 teams had. We're also not being unsustainably propped up by anything (if anything, the opposite), and we're pretty solid in all positions.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes we have seen them pushback. No they dont do it all the time. Id like to see more of it.

If you want to see more of it, you're allowed to want that, but I think it's important to recognize that no team does it "all the time", and it really has no relation to why we've lost.

 

[mclaren55]

I didn't say you were "shooting yourself in the foot". I just legitimately didn't understand why you were saying that only the top-3 teams can be contenders like it's some hard rule, while simultaneously including the 4th place team. We're currently 6th btw, not 7th (and spending a large portion of the season in the top-5), which would mean we're a contender by your new criteria as well.

The average rank of the last 10 cup winners is 6.3. We are 6th, and have a higher point percentage than 9 out of those 10 teams had. We're also not being unsustainably propped up by anything (if anything, the opposite), and we're pretty solid in all positions.

In terms of points (the way the NHL ranks teams), we are 7th. I assume you are using Pts% to determine ranking?

 

[Gary Nylund]

In terms of points (the way the NHL ranks teams), we are 7th. I assume you are using Pts% to determine ranking?

The NHL uses PTS%. We're 6th.

 

[mclaren55]

fans in Toronto still talking about size and toughness meanwhile the TB Lighnting are back to back champions. Nuff said.

Yea they are, because of size and toughness to go along with their skill and vezina level goaltending.

 

[mclaren55]

The NHL uses PTS%. We're 6th.

Is that why when I look at their site it says 7th, without me selecting the category I want for ranking?

 

[Dekes For Days]

In terms of points (the way the NHL ranks teams), we are 7th. I assume you are using Pts% to determine ranking?

Yes, we are 6th by point percentage, which is how the NHL actually ranks teams whenever ranking is significant and games are not equal (waivers, 2020 playoffs, etc.).

 

[Koolboss]

Respectfully, why are you here? If this is your opinion, then drop the team and enjoy life.

Don't mind dropping some of the poster here but dropping the team is not so easy mate

 

[Mess]

If Leafs fans are worried about toughness then they should tell the GM to stop trading players like

Mason Marchment (@$800,000) FLA RW.. 26 games 11 goals 16 assists 27 points [1.04 PPG] +26 & 23 Pims
for
Denis Malgin (playing the Swiss league) .

 

[mclaren55]

Yes, we are 6th by point percentage, which is how the NHL actually ranks teams whenever ranking is significant and games are not equal (waivers, 2020 playoffs, etc.).

Ok, but that isn't the case for us currently, so shouldn't points be used? We are only 1-2 games back of some teams, and 1-4 games ahead of others. I could see if we were the Islanders or something, just seems like a bit of a reach.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ok, but that isn't the case for us currently, so shouldn't points be used?

But it is the case for us currently. We haven't played the same number of games, so points can be misleading. Pittsburgh hasn't been a better team this year. They have 2 more points, but that's only because they've played 2 extra games.

 

[Machinae]

This team needs toughness and grit, they need a guy with size and skill to play in the top 6.

They should call Arizona and ask about this guy named Nick Ritchie..

 

[Northernguy10]

Posted this a while back:

From mapleleafhotstove - I would add in the first game JT went back to play his former team. No effort, no respect:

We need no reminder of the Toronto Maple Leafs’ recent history (recent as in just the last year and a half) in these “it’d sure be embarrassing if they lost!” games, but I guess we’ll do it briefly anyway because game previews require us to write words in them:

• The David Ayres game (which was flaunted by the Canes organization as a lovely cherry-on-top of the Leafs‘ shit sundae on Monday)
• The time when the Leafs led 3-0 in Game 3 vs. CBJ with a chance to take a stranglehold over the series, lost 4-3 in OT, and nearly lost the series in four after a horrible Game 4 performance in which they staged a miraculous 3-0 comeback at the end, only to get shut out in a series-deciding Game 5
• The time when the Leafs were leading 5-1 against Ottawa at home and lost 6-5 in overtime
• The time when the Leafs went into Vancouver as the Canucks were returning from a Covid outbreak that ravaged the team for over three weeks and lost both games
• The time when the Leafs led 3-1 in the series against the Habs and somehow lost three in a row including another shutout loss (basically) in a series-deciding game
• Literally four days ago when the Leafs lost 7-1 to the Wilkes-Barre Penguins

and another poster at the time added:

Also missing Kaskisuo's first NHL game, and the team let him get shelled.

Also missing leading Boston 3 games to 2 in 2019, and then not showing up in either of the next two games.

Also missing having a lead over Boston in 2018 heading into the third period of Game 7, and losing.


It's not JUST losing, it's the way they lose with no heart, no fight, no push-back. "Too easy to play against" - we here it from the Leaf players themselves annually, and yet some posters here just will not have it. No spreadsheet can capture that

When I played and coached the battle on the ice was a combination of skill and toughness. Even though the game is more skill based these days "smart" toughness is still a major part in the game. Toughness is much more than fighting, it's battling for pucks and playing with heart and tenacity. It's backing each other up no matter the circumstances. That feeling of togetherness is massive in how your success as a team plays out. This team has a culture problem and plugging in a player here and there may help to some extent but in the big picture doesn't get you where you want to go. It's obvious how other teams look at us and the methods they use to beat us. I've heard "Draft for skill and trade for toughness" ..Well maybe it's time to actually follow that mantra. No I'm not talking about goons but guys that can play and battle on a consistent basis to support Matthews and Marner in particular.

 

[ShaneFalco]

When I played and coached the battle on the ice was a combination of skill and toughness. Even though the game is more skill based these days "smart" toughness is still a major part in the game. Toughness is much more than fighting, it's battling for pucks and playing with heart and tenacity. It's backing each other up no matter the circumstances. That feeling of togetherness is massive in how your success as a team plays out. This team has a culture problem and plugging in a player here and there may help to some extent but in the big picture doesn't get you where you want to go. It's obvious how other teams look at us and the methods they use to beat us. I've heard "Draft for skill and trade for toughness" ..Well maybe it's time to actually follow that mantra. No I'm not talking about goons but guys that can play and battle on a consistent basis to support Matthews and Marner in particular.

Exactly - toughness doesn't necessarily mean face punchers. But when your captain takes repeated cross-checks to the back and everyone just skates away...... wow. Goalie can get run over and maybe Spezza comes to his aid. Pathetic really

 

[Cleetus]

blame the fans and the media, they are skating too slow, they dont play hard enough!, not getting pucks in deep, over spending on players.... lmao what a horrible take!

 

[AvroArrow]

Not sure if it's been posted but insane stats

From the start of the season up to January 7th - .923 svp (1st in the NHL) 2.41 gaa (2nd in the NHL)

Since January 7th til now - .883 svp (29th in the NHL) 3.50 gaa (25th in the NHL)

I don't know what happened to Soup, but the stats are as bad as the eye-test.

 

[Mess]

When I played and coached the battle on the ice was a combination of skill and toughness. Even though the game is more skill based these days "smart" toughness is still a major part in the game. Toughness is much more than fighting, it's battling for pucks and playing with heart and tenacity. It's backing each other up no matter the circumstances. That feeling of togetherness is massive in how your success as a team plays out. This team has a culture problem and plugging in a player here and there may help to some extent but in the big picture doesn't get you where you want to go. It's obvious how other teams look at us and the methods they use to beat us. I've heard "Draft for skill and trade for toughness" ..Well maybe it's time to actually follow that mantra. No I'm not talking about goons but guys that can play and battle on a consistent basis to support Matthews and Marner in particular.

Can you imagine if the Leafs had Wendel Clark playing LW with Matthews and Marner right now
&
Mark Osborne -- Peter Zezel and Billy Berg as our 3rd line?

 

[Apotheosis]

fans in Toronto still talking about size and toughness meanwhile the TB Lighnting are back to back champions. Nuff said.

The same Tampa's who's entire blue line average height is 6'3.

 

[Dreakmur]

2019-2020
Leafs - 70GP | 36W | 25L | 9OTL | 81pts
Columbus - 70GP | 33W | 22L | 15OTL | 81pts

Lets not try to pretend like the Leafs had a much better record than Columbus to push the narrative you want.

The leafs were the 8th seed based on a tie-breaker. Columbus only made the playoff qualifying round because they expanded beyond 8 teams. That’s not a narrative, that’s a fact. Being tied with the Leafs doesn’t make Columbus good…

 

[Mess]

The leafs were the 8th seed based on a tie-breaker. Columbus only made the playoff qualifying round because they expanded beyond 8 teams. That’s not a narrative, that’s a fact. Being tied with the Leafs doesn’t make Columbus good…

Toronto was the 3rd highest scoring team and Columbus the 3rd lowest and when the series was discussed not many Leaf fans were taking CBJ serious against Leafs vaulted offense in a best of 5.

 

[Dreakmur]

No, "expected" statistics are valuable information about a team's offensive generation and defensive suppression. "Expected cups" aren't a thing, and I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that we won this non-existent thing.

If irony could kill, you’d be in jail for this post.

No, they weren't "bad teams". They were average to above average teams that got excellent goaltending for a stretch to cover for a lot of their flaws.

Yes, there were below average teams that wouldn’t have qualified for the playoffs under normal rules.

If we’re an excuse or two away from losing to teams like that, we’re not contenders.

 

[Dreakmur]

Toronto was the 3rd highest scoring team and Columbus the 3rd lowest and when the series was discussed not many Leaf fans were taking CBJ serious against Leafs vaulted offense in a best of 5.

The team still has a lot of talent, and there are sometimes hints that some of the players finally get it. Matthews has figured it out mostly. Nylander at least doesn’t get worse I think he playoff. Marner is the guy who shows no progress, and unless he changes, o don’t see him being here for an successful run.