The Core and its flaw, imo.

[meefer]

I well expect some ridicule here, but here goes. As a group, perhaps the most talented group in the league: Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander and Rielly. They are good at hockey. I'm not sure they are so good at leading a team to the Grail, Morgan getting a bit of a pass as I'll explain.

8 games back from the all star game and we're on a 3W/5L streak of uninspired hockey. Nothing has looked particularly great, perhaps with the exception of our top line scoring well. Looking back I pin the moment of change on the hit Kase took near the end of the first in the game against Calgary. Thankfully, it didn't wreck him, but could have, and Morgan Rielly took it upon himself to step up for a teammate (hence the 'pass'). I remember posting that moment as being a great step taken by one of the leaders on the team, and that it should galvanize them in the 2nd period of the game. Boy, was I wrong. The Flames continued to bump and bruise us in the 2nd and we got outscored 4-0 in the 2nd without so much as a reaction of anger from any of the above. I am not suggesting any of them should drop the gloves, but a bit of pushback would be nice to see, some anger, some f*ck you attitude, some balls. Matthews, you're a big boy, if the refs aren't calling the shit you take, take matters into your own hands and stuff your glove in the guy's face, throw an elbow, do something to protect yourself and show the bastards you're not going to take their shit. JT, you're going through it now, I suspect a hangover from Covid, but fella, when you're getting whacked along the boards refukingspond! Mitch, you know where everyone on the ice is, the refs as well, bring a little of Marchand's nastiness to your game and see the waters part. Willy, you're jacked, use it! 8 hits so far this year ain't going to cut it. And for God's sake, back your teammates, ram the guys that are shoving a downed teammate, show them you care, do a Rielly! They'll play harder for you and each other, and we might actually have a team that does what a team should do, back each other til the bitter end.

We win fancy, we win skills, we win run-and-gun, we don't win tough. Foligno, for as much grief as he takes here, tried to follow the unspoken code of protecting the team after JT got injured last year. Had he seen the replay he'd have known the nature of the event, but bad back and all he threw into it. As much as anything else it was that aspect of him as a player that I think caused Dubas to bring him in. Spezza the year before. From our core, nothing.

For the record, I'm not tossing in a towel with this take, nor am I asking for someone to be traded. I like them all, I think their actually a damned talented group, I just desperately want to see them stop being pushovers. If they step up and quit the passiveness, I believe so too will the team and we'll be in much better shape come the playoffs. Rant over.

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[dubplatepressure]

So, the same problem it has been for years, right?

 

[centipede2233]

Listen, the team was poorly constructed. The cap allotment is too top heavy. Dubas is willing to risk his job on the core, and he eventually pay the price for his stubbornness.

 

[hotpaws]

Dubas f***ed this team by wasting 11m on JT .

 

[CabanaBoy5]

You’re not wrong in your assessment. At least one of the big four should be someone with some grit, bite, and pushback. A leader like a Messier. A tough player like Clark who will stand up for his teammates. A take-no-crap player like Gilmour. This is where investing $11 million in a player like Tavares was a mistake especially when we had 3 others with no feistiness.

How does Dubas correct this? One of the big 4 has to go. It should be Tavares but that’s not going to be easy given contract and age. I think it’s going to have to be Nylander. You don’t trade talents like Matthews and Marner.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Your core must have a superstar dman, or goalie. Reilly is good, not super, not a Chara, not a Hedmen, and Soup....not even average.

 

[ACC1224]

Fresh topic

 

[ShaneFalco]

They care so deeply apparently but don't stick up for eachother and haven't for years no matter who is brought in. Spezza is one of the few who shows push-back. Not willing to go to war in the playoffs and when things are looking down for them, they become fragile and fold.
Prove me wrong this year and I'll gladly eat my words

 

[Havoc]

Core is fine. We have the same problem Tampa had. The rest of the team gets bullied by the playoff depth of other teams. If Matthews and Marner have to do all the scoring and be the most grittiest guys (Matthews) we already lost.

We need players to wear the opponent down when the big 4 are on the bench. That's it. (And goaltending maybe ).

It's not a cap issue. 2 of our big 4 can compete with each other for the selke as well people don't understand the advantage we have with these guys over the boring parity riddled NHL Management for whatever reason tries to fill the bottom 6 with "lite" versions of the core 4. Guys like Mik who wish they were high flying in the top 6 and Engvall doing spin backs and stick handling east-west (with zero puck protection, you or me can go poke that thing off his stick) like he's Nylander.

Until they fill the bottom 6 with the right "type" we're going no where. Core 4 is being wasted.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Dubas f***ed this team by wasting 11m on JT .

But, he could have gotten $12 m from another team. That means we had to get him.

 

[mclaren55]

Dubas f***ed this team by wasting 11m on JT .

I said this when we signed him, and my friends said I was an idiot. He was an unwarranted addition that was "nice to have" but definitely not what we needed. This is only going to become more evident as he ages. No team has won a cup with their second line centre making 11mil for a reason.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The core and team are perfectly fine, and they're not "pushovers".

The biggest flaw of this team is its fans and media.

 

[mydnyte]

Core is fine. We have the same problem Tampa had. The rest of the team gets bullied by the playoff depth of other teams. If Matthews and Marner have to do all the scoring and be the most grittiest guys (Matthews) we already lost.

We need players to wear the opponent down when the big 4 are on the bench. That's it. (And goaltending maybe ).

It's not a cap issue. 2 of our big 4 can compete with each other for the selke as well people don't understand the advantage we have with these guys over the boring parity riddled NHL Management for whatever reason tries to fill the bottom 6 with "lite" versions of the core 4. Guys like Mik who wish they were high flying in the top 6 and Engvall doing spin backs and stick handling east-west (with zero puck protection, you or me can go poke that thing off his stick) like he's Nylander.

Until they fill the bottom 6 with the right "type" we're going no where. Core 4 is being wasted.

if ref's ever called the playoffs like they should, it wouldnt be an issue.

its like the refs think its their job to dumb the game down for the neanderthal type players in the playoffs, and force them all to play 'Cherry' style hockey, when that isnt what the league is about.

Imagine the NBA letting star players get pushed around and man handled as soon as the playoffs started, its unheard of. If you breath on, or look at a 'star' sideways in the playoffs, they call a foul!

The 'talent' that sells the NHL needs to be allowed to play in the playoffs and not get abused (and teams shouldnt need to adjust their rosters to protect their star players for the playoffs either), because that actually, is not part of the game!

 

[Fogelhund]

Typical HF boards post, when we lose a few games. We will go on a winning streak shortly, and it will all go away.

 

[mydnyte]

The core and team are perfectly fine, and they're not "pushovers".

The biggest flaw of this team is its fans and media.

I'd say defensive zone brain farts, and the offensive zone turnover rush chances they give up on a regular basis are the biggest flaws.

they commit too much to offense, and ignore the fact that, any turnover is an odd man rush the other way.
they need to be creative in the o-zone, but, always be ready to get back and defend at a moments notice.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Typical HF boards post, when we lose a few games. We will go on a winning streak shortly, and it will all go away.

You could have written the same thing the last 5 years. It's not losing a few games (or turning around and going on a winning streak), it's the same issues that crop up every year as they get closer to the playoffs

 

[hotpaws]

if ref's ever called the playoffs like they should, it wouldnt be an issue.

its like the refs think its their job to dumb the game down for the neanderthal type players in the playoffs, and force them all to play 'Cherry' style hockey, when that isnt what the league is about.

Imagine the NBA letting star players get pushed around and man handled as soon as the playoffs started, its unheard of. If you breath on, or look at a 'star' sideways in the playoffs, they call a foul!

The 'talent' that sells the NHL needs to be allowed to play in the playoffs and not get abused (and teams shouldnt need to adjust their rosters to protect their star players for the playoffs either), because that actually, is not part of the game!

your right we should change the way the game has always called because Dubas built a soft team

the funny thing is i don't remember anyone complaining when we use to manhandle the Sens every spring , why do you believe that is ?

 

[ACC1224]

if ref's ever called the playoffs like they should, it wouldnt be an issue.

its like the refs think its their job to dumb the game down for the neanderthal type players in the playoffs, and force them all to play 'Cherry' style hockey, when that isnt what the league is about.

Imagine the NBA letting star players get pushed around and man handled as soon as the playoffs started, its unheard of. If you breath on, or look at a 'star' sideways in the playoffs, they call a foul!

The 'talent' that sells the NHL needs to be allowed to play in the playoffs and not get abused (and teams shouldnt need to adjust their rosters to protect their star players for the playoffs either), because that actually, is not part of the game!

I wouldn't expect that to change anytime soon.
Probably better for the team to adjust than to hold their breath that things will change.

 

[Apex Predator]

Your core must have a superstar dman, or goalie. Reilly is good, not super, not a Chara, not a Hedmen, and Soup....not even average.

thats an overreaction based on the last month. I think Soup is an average goalie. The last season and a half he’s shown he can play, just not at a high level consistently. To me that’s an average goalie at least.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'd say defensive zone brain farts, and the offensive zone turnover rush chances they give up on a regular basis are the biggest flaws.

If you watched other teams as much as you watch the Leafs, with as much focus and emotional investment as you have in the Leafs, you would recognize that other teams - even the best, toughest, most successful playoff teams - make defensive zone brain farts and give up offensive zone turnover rush chances just as much (and sometimes more) than us, especially during their cold stretches like we're going through right now. We are a good defensive team, we don't give up an abnormal amount of odd man rushes, and odd man rush chances aren't the automatic goal that some people like to treat them as. In fact, the majority of the time, odd man rush chances and even breakaways should be saved, with even just league average goaltending.

Every successful team ever has and will allow a number of high-quality chances throughout a hockey game. What we have mainly had during this stretch is our goalies giving up an abnormal number of goals and bad rebounds on the relatively normal number of chances we've allowed.

And whatever small issues we may have, Matthews/Marner breaking their hands on somebody's face wouldn't solve a single one of them - just create more.

 

[geo25]

I well expect some ridicule here, but here goes. As a group, perhaps the most talented group in the league: Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander and Rielly. They are good at hockey. I'm not sure they are so good at leading a team to the Grail, Morgan getting a bit of a pass as I'll explain.

8 games back from the all star game and we're on a 3W/5L streak of uninspired hockey. Nothing has looked particularly great, perhaps with the exception of our top line scoring well. Looking back I pin the moment of change on the hit Kase took near the end of the first in the game against Calgary. Thankfully, it didn't wreck him, but could have, and Morgan Rielly took it upon himself to step up for a teammate (hence the 'pass'). I remember posting that moment as being a great step taken by one of the leaders on the team, and that it should galvanize them in the 2nd period of the game. Boy, was I wrong. The Flames continued to bump and bruise us in the 2nd and we got outscored 4-0 in the 2nd without so much as a reaction of anger from any of the above. I am not suggesting any of them should drop the gloves, but a bit of pushback would be nice to see, some anger, some f*ck you attitude, some balls. Matthews, you're a big boy, if the refs aren't calling the shit you take, take matters into your own hands and stuff your glove in the guy's face, throw an elbow, do something to protect yourself and show the bastards you're not going to take their shit. JT, you're going through it now, I suspect a hangover from Covid, but fella, when you're getting whacked along the boards refukingspond! Mitch, you know where everyone on the ice is, the refs as well, bring a little of Marchand's nastiness to your game and see the waters part. Willy, you're jacked, use it! 8 hits so far this year ain't going to cut it. And for God's sake, back your teammates, ram the guys that are shoving a downed teammate, show them you care, do a Rielly! They'll play harder for you and each other, and we might actually have a team that does what a team should do, back each other til the bitter end.

We win fancy, we win skills, we win run-and-gun, we don't win tough. Foligno, for as much grief as he takes here, tried to follow the unspoken code of protecting the team after JT got injured last year. Had he seen the replay he'd have known the nature of the event, but bad back and all he threw into it. As much as anything else it was that aspect of him as a player that I think caused Dubas to bring him in. Spezza the year before. From our core, nothing.

For the record, I'm not tossing in a towel with this take, nor am I asking for someone to be traded. I like them all, I think their actually a damned talented group, I just desperately want to see them stop being pushovers. If they step up and quit the passiveness, I believe so too will the team and we'll be in much better shape come the playoffs. Rant over.

I couldn't agree more. As this group stands it collectively does not have the grit/determination to get there. I am just afraid Dubas will spend our great looking prospects to save his hide. Furthermore, the coach isn't the one to lead this bunch either...regardless of their regular season, mirage causing record. When games get tough they fold like a cheap tent. All the talent in the world but...in the playoffs determination, hard work & grit win out every time (need goaltending too!)

 

[Dreakmur]

The core and team are perfectly fine, and they're not "pushovers".

The biggest flaw of this team is its fans and media.

We already won two expected cup, but the media won’t report it!

 

[ACC1224]

We already won two expected cup, but the media won’t report it!

Is blaming the fans the dumbest thing ever posted here?

 

[Dekes For Days]

We already won two expected cup

Not sure what an "expected cup" is, or where you got the idea we won any.

We do have a very good team though, and are one of the biggest contenders for the real cup this year.

 

[mclaren55]

Not sure what an "expected cup" is, or where you got the idea we won any.

We do have a very good team though, and are one of the biggest contenders for the real cup this year.

I disagree with the “one of the biggest contenders”. Unless you are including the top 1/3rd of the league under the same qualification. Tampa, Florida, and Carolina would be the three “biggest contenders” in my book. No shot this team the way it is constructed goes to the finals.