Rumor: Teuvo Teravainen is heading to market July 1.

[GIN ANTONIC]

It's probably ultimately just a difference in how we see things. In the same way that i think Mitchell Marner is a massively overrated "defensive player". Same sort of deal. He's positionally sound, lots of good little stick plays, racks up takeaways, etc. But overall just a player i'd call "fine" defensively, because that missing physicality component is still a big factor imo. As well as just the "reactive" rather than "proactive" nature of their defensive games. But he also gets his Selke votes...because that award has sort of lost the plot as far as i'm concerned. Become sort of the "Art Ross for players who don't noticeably suck defensively". But i'm obviously the outlier on that feeling. Per the way that award is voted every year now.

I mean no one is saying he's prime Bergeron or Hossa or anything like that. But on a team that is known to play a strong defensive game he is one of the better defensive forwards. He wouldn't be on the PK and in the situations he's in if he wasn't. The coach is Rod Brind'Amour so there's that.

Everything is relative though. How many players on the ice are below average, average, and above average defensively? Out of Carolina's 12 forwards he's probably in the 3-5 range. So he's above average to me. He's not Aho and he's not prime Jordan Staal. You could put him in the conversation with Fast and then like Martinook, Jarvis, Drury are all also capable but play different types of games. So, on the Hurricanes, who are generally an excellent defensive team he is at least average for the forward group, if not firmly above average. Now take that across the league where you are comparing him to the top 12 forwards on other teams who aren't as good as Carolina.

So, ya, he's good defensively and everything more or less points to that during his career. If you view that as 'fine' then no worries.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

canes are going for a big fish?

No, they value long term cap flexibility above all else. And if that means some guys they could have retained on expensive but relative to the market discount deals walk, so be it.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Makes sense, signing a 30 year old winger in free agency is a bad idea 90% of the time.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Makes sense, signing a 30 year old winger in free agency is a bad idea 90% of the time.

60% of the time it works everytime.

 

[biturbo19]

I mean no one is saying he's prime Bergeron or Hossa or anything like that. But on a team that is known to play a strong defensive game he is one of the better defensive forwards. He wouldn't be on the PK and in the situations he's in if he wasn't. The coach is Rod Brind'Amour so there's that.

Everything is relative though. How many players on the ice are below average, average, and above average defensively? Out of Carolina's 12 forwards he's probably in the 3-5 range. So he's above average to me. He's not Aho and he's not prime Jordan Staal. You could put him in the conversation with Fast and then like Martinook, Jarvis, Drury are all also capable but play different types of games. So, on the Hurricanes, who are generally an excellent defensive team he is at least average for the forward group, if not firmly above average. Now take that across the league where you are comparing him to the top 12 forwards on other teams who aren't as good as Carolina.

So, ya, he's good defensively and everything more or less points to that during his career. If you view that as 'fine' then no worries.

Yeah. I think that's probably the real difference here. I see him as "fine" because to me, he's one of those guys who hovers somewhere around "average". Maybe slightly above average. But I wouldn't describe it as a standout trait or something way above average.

It's one of those, "how many #1D are there in the league?" sort of questions i guess. I don't think there are 32 of them. Some people do for some reason. It's just a difference in how you define things i guess.


Which is where i end up on Teuvo being "fine" defensively. I define it more by "standout" defensive players like Aho, Staal, et al...a huge bulk of guys who are just "fine"...and then a bunch of scrubs who are not good enough. But it's really just semantics and terminology and where we draw the boundaries on things anyway.

 

[NotOpie]

The Canes have about $24 mil to work with but depending on whether they want to lock up Jarvis and Necas those two could take up half of that......and then there's the issue of whether or not they lose Pesce and Skjei and who's going to replace them if they do.

Not to be too picky but the Canes essentially have $28.2 million in cap space. Nadeau, Blake, Suzuki, and Seeley are almost certainly going to start out in Chicago. So you have to back their salaries out of CapFriendly's estimates.

If one or more of those guys make the team out of camp, that's a nice problem to have as they are all on ELCs or, in the case of Suzuki, a "show me" second contract.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Yeah. I think that's probably the real difference here. I see him as "fine" because to me, he's one of those guys who hovers somewhere around "average". Maybe slightly above average. But I wouldn't describe it as a standout trait or something way above average.

It's one of those, "how many #1D are there in the league?" sort of questions i guess. I don't think there are 32 of them. Some people do for some reason. It's just a difference in how you define things i guess.


Which is where i end up on Teuvo being "fine" defensively. I define it more by "standout" defensive players like Aho, Staal, et al...a huge bulk of guys who are just "fine"...and then a bunch of scrubs who are not good enough. But it's really just semantics and terminology and where we draw the boundaries on things anyway.

To piggy back off of your 'How many 1D are there in the league' conversation... I think the differentiation here is that you feel a guy like Teuvo is 'average' or 'fine' as you put it in terms of what you expect from a 'good/great' defensive forward. Like you have a definition or criteria of what that is.

I'm saying if you took all the forwards in the league and rated their defensive abilities Teuvo is probably in the top 20-30% of forwards.

So maybe we're both right.

 

[biturbo19]

To piggy back off of your 'How many 1D are there in the league' conversation... I think the differentiation here is that you feel a guy like Teuvo is 'average' or 'fine' as you put it in terms of what you expect from a 'good/great' defensive forward. Like you have a definition or criteria of what that is.

I'm saying if you took all the forwards in the league and rated their defensive abilities Teuvo is probably in the top 20-30% of forwards.

So maybe we're both right.

Yeah. I think that's ultimately the difference. I don't believe he's quite in that range. More the 50-60% range. On the right side of average, but not "special" either.


I don't think we really disagree all that much. Just a matter how we quantify it. Or exactly how far we think he walks into that other realm of impactful defensive players.