WC: Team Finland

[Mestaruus]

At this point Saros might be the better choice over Rask. Rask allowed some bad goals against the Bolts and isn't playing even near his best. Saros has done what he's capable of and has basically done that ever since he left Finland. He's a great goalie.

I love all 3 of those goalies tbh. They are all in top-4 goalies of Finland that haven't retired yet in my opinion. Raanta being one of the 4. Koskinen #5, not going to start with the others. Those are the ones I'd put in the net if my life depended on winning a game.

 

[Gsus]

What about when Saros' agent reminds him of the huge raise he's about to receive this summer, as long as he keeps his keister glued to that bench?

I agree with everything else that's been said about Saros, he's as good as any actual NHL starter we have and would be a huge asset, but his contract situation does make his arrival perhaps the most unlikely of the three.

Sorry, completely forgot about his contract expiration. That makes it definitely harder to get him.

 

[Ippenator]

Yep, Pokka has definitely entered the Berg/Kukkonen/Mäntylä club. And almost certainly not by his own fault. He simply happened to get picked over somebody else some random one-minded Karelia Cap happened to consider better, even if that is purely debatable.

What is your thing with Berg, Kukkonen and Mäntylä really? I wasnt discussing any of them. Anyway I have always appreciated Berg and Kukkonen. Good and reliable defencemen and both so much better than Pokka, that it’s not even funny.

But yeah, I could put Pokka to the pretty much similar category with midget-Mäntylä, which is useless for the national team in the top tournaments, and definitely not an NHL caliber player.

 

[FiLe]

What is your thing with Berg, Kukkonen and Mäntylä really? I wasnt discussing any of them. Anyway I have always appreciated Berg and Kukkonen. Good and reliable defencemen and both so much better than Pokka, that it’s not even funny.

But yeah, I could put Pokka to the pretty much similar category with midget-Mäntylä, which is useless for the national team in the top tournaments, and definitely not an NHL caliber player.

All three were, at some point or other, receiving same kind of irrational hate from people as you seem to be targeting Pokka now. Perhaps you were not among those who targeted them, but your behavior with Pokka still matches that of those fans hating Berg/Kukkonen to a T.

The revealing factor here is hating some player based on one's mental image on him, not based on how said player is actually doing. And so far Pokka has been just okay. He was okay over the camp, and he's been okay in these two games here. If you figure he won't be okay once the opposition gets tougher, and you actually see someone like McDavid making him look foolish, feel free to come and criticize him then. However, even in such a case, don't spout off a list of possible players who would have fared better than him, especially if there's no actual earlier proof of them playing against such competition and doing fine. Because then you're pitting your own projection of said players doing better against the actual performance of the player you dislike, and that's intellectually dishonest. That's another dead giveaway of this "hater fan" mindset I'm talking about. They have this nasty tendency to mix up their own perceptions with reality, and call the former the latter.

 

[Ippenator]

All three were, at some point or other, receiving same kind of irrational hate from people as you seem to be targeting Pokka now. Perhaps you were not among those who targeted them, but your behavior with Pokka still matches that of those fans hating Berg/Kukkonen to a T.

The revealing factor here is hating some player based on one's mental image on him, not based on how said player is actually doing. And so far Pokka has been just okay. He was okay over the camp, and he's been okay in these two games here. If you figure he won't be okay once the opposition gets tougher, and you actually see someone like McDavid making him look foolish, feel free to come and criticize him then. However, even in such a case, don't spout off a list of possible players who would have fared better than him, especially if there's no actual earlier proof of them playing against such competition and doing fine. Because then you're pitting your own projection of said players doing better against the actual performance of the player you dislike, and that's intellectually dishonest. That's another dead giveaway of this "hater fan" mindset I'm talking about. They have this nasty tendency to mix up their own perceptions with reality, and call the former the latter.

I don’t hate Pokka for sure. But he is a horrible skater for the top level international tournaments and his puck handling skills are definitely average. He is the type of player that a nihilistic coach might like though, as he doesnt take much of risks and plays even overly safely. But he is the kind of player whom has to play that way, because his skating and puck skills dont let him take risks in a well enough controlled way that brings after all much better offence for the team, when they are done with enough puck skill and good enough skating.

Very nihilistic coaches tend to like these kind of players and choose them often to their teams too easily over more skilled but less experienced players. This is exactly a big reason why I dislike Marjamäki so much. He has of course shown at least some signs of learning as a national team coach and getting a bit more courageous and offensive minded with his choices and system.

But after watching all of Kärpät games in the 2015-2016 Liiga season, I bitterly realized that he is exactly this nihilistic and passive risk avoider whom kills the play for his teams, latest at some point when the stakes become higher. I even named his playing style as handbrake hockey, as it made every single great skater even look slower and more passive than they really should have been. Now he has definitely better players than he has had so far in any tournament after the World Cup, so for sure he should start getting them to play well too.

So far it’s looking promising, but I just don’t trust him to let his team continue this actively and offensively for the rest of the tournament until I really see it happen. If it happens after all, I will gladly admit that he proved me after all wrong. But still, Pokka shouldn’t in my opinion be in the team. Hopefully though he will not at least be a real liability against the best teams in the tournament.

 

[rduck1]

Trivia time: Who was it on the top pairing with Esa Lindell in Malmö, 2014? Was it Ristolainen? No? Honka? No? Hmmm... Who could it have been that ol' Kulta-Karri put his faith in...

(the point here being that if multiple top coaches put this much faith in the same player, chances are the player has some merit)

 

[Ippenator]

Trivia time: Who was it on the top pairing with Esa Lindell in Malmö, 2014? Was it Ristolainen? No? Honka? No? Hmmm... Who could it have been that ol' Kulta-Karri put his faith in...

(the point here being that if multiple top coaches put this much faith in the same player, chances are the player has some merit)

Unfortunately that player hasn’t developed much from those times, so what he did as a teenager does not matter much at the adult level after all. At least at the absolute top level that is the NHL and the international top tournaments.

 

[Loffer]

I remember Pokka from that KK behind the bench and TT on the ice led WJC gold medal robber team in which there was also this herra Haapala circling around his absolut sobriety, a dude who faked his injury (forearm/wrist) vs. Canada in the quarter final match (?) after drawing a penalty shot so that TT could go and capitalize the million bucks chance - a gimmick which again aroused resentment in the Canada camp and especially among Canadian HFB fans the latter blaming the kid of foul play which if happened in the NHL would cost this cunning, clever and resourceful Barky’s Little Helper a stinging payback in the form of severe physical abuse on ice meaning manly beating mittens dropped and this time noway to run or hide, least behind cowardly theatrical antics until some pimple faced youngster from vast opens of Alberta or Manitoba or rugged shores of Nova Scotia noted with gloating satisfaction something like ”that little weasel with ten years old girl’s physics will never get to the NHL”. Little did he know and Mr. Henry Haap Area made it all the way, well, almost made it, made it to the gates of the Show, well, admittedly, partially due to his homie Barky the Barkov who enjoys certain ”established status” in Miami and around the league but nevertheless. To relate this narrative back to Pokka now. I do recall him but not from any isolated scandalous episode a la HH (what we’ve got here btw is a trio of magical, decisive geminates KK, TT, HH and even on the top of that the gwg architect RR, this cannot be a coincidence but a SIGN!). I remember Mr. Cold Face Poker as a solid piece in the all the way to the end wall gone team causing havoc, fear and loath in the sweet and neat land of Swedu Peters, I remember his wide shining smile, uninhibited goal celebration (so, he did contribute with a measurable success, I reckon), supporting role next to Esa Lindell, if I remeber also with certain correctness, maybe not. Some Stoat insider also related here that Poks enjoyed remarkable popularity within the Uleoborgian teen pissis scene which I found delightful and worth mentioning. Will he make it? Maybe not, yet I do remember him as I do remember HH, not quite the same way but with subtle differences in their respective presences and parts in this success story of capital geminates and the greatest win you can sincerely win in the great game of hockey. Oh, and one more thing, he is not PP but IIRC VP or ViP which is not bad either, not bad at all.

 

[MMANumminen]

Any news of Donskoi and Rask?

 

[Snaibberi]

2 easy wins. Aho has superb start and whole team is on fire... But instead of being happy on those things this thread concentrates to talk how bad Pokka is?

I know, that i dont have NHL scout eyes or have any deeper knowledge of hockey, than what i can see... But Pokka has been as good as any other defender in the team.

So please... SHUT UP and concentrate to good things until some bad things happen.

 

[thestudent]

My only fear is that somehow this teams makes it to the quarter finals and Berry Hill is seen as some kind of genius for getting them that far.

BTW, what's up with Hartikainen ?

 

[sooni]

My only fear is that somehow this teams makes it to the quarter finals and Berry Hill is seen as some kind of genius for getting them that far.

BTW, what's up with Hartikainen ?

Well you can´t blame coach for everything. He have changed almost everything of Finnish play style. Respect where it should go. Hartikainen declined because of injuries.

 

[torniojaws]

I wouldn't say Aho's start is superb. It is pure magic. Come on. After two games he is one similar game (6 points) away from tying the all-time Finnish point record (16). And the next game is against Norway.

But I hope the other lines can get their game going on too. Otherwise we're in trouble against Canada and USA, if they can shut down Aho. And after this kind of performance, they will certainly pay extra attention to him.

 

[sooni]

Any news of Donskoi and Rask?

Too early... I think it should take couple of days before they are calling them... there is always team meeting after season ending. Boston had away game too... My prediction is that both will decline. Donskoi had some kind of injury and Rask is done for this season.

 

[Finnswiss]

I'm glad to see how strong Finland started in the tournament. But there is one problem. The team depends too much on the Aho-Teräväinen line. If Aho has a bad day or one of them get injured - what I hope will not happen of course - Finland will struggle. Because Granlund can't yet play his potential in the tournament. So far he couldn't convince really, I hope he can improve his performance in the next games.

 

[sooni]

I think that they should change Granlund as winger. He have always produced as a winger... Savinainen-Aho-Teräväinen. Granny-Suomela-Rantanen, Kapanen-Manninen-Jormakka, Mäenalanen-Pesonen-Anttila.

 

[torniojaws]

I think that they should change Granlund as winger.

Paskanmarja put him in center? It figures this particular coach still tries hard to torpedo the team via stupidity. Did he even follow the career of Granlund in the past 3 years? His production doubled after he was moved from center to wing in Minnesota.

 

[MMANumminen]

Definitely Granny-Suomela-Rantanen would be good idea to try. Kapanen-Pesonen-Mäenalanen could create some offence too.
I don't want to criticize anyone too early but Jormakka and Manninen could sharpen up a bit. Also I don't get it yet why is Mörkö Anttila playing in NT? He hasn't even been physical. Although you can't get much hits if you have the puck all the time

 

[Loffer]

Granny needs some time to get it going but to get it going for real at the C position might take too long, so long the games come to an abrupt end in the fertile low sea land of Danes, Dunes, ghost kings and haunted princes plus the choirs of howling wind mills on empty shores before that, that is, the needed adjustment and transformation of Bruce, the gift from heavens to an enhanced ”Mikke” if hurried is likely to take the shape of a frustrating boxing match with shadows, something not altogether different from a tragic Hamletian journey into the labyrinth of one’s hallucinatory past.

Wind mills are good for ecology and nature but not for an individual fighting them, their metaphorical counterparts in vain. And in this very case the personal battle within a greater collective battle has some typical characteristics of such a futile fight against inanimate massives unwilling to follow suit or obey one’s command, a well-known unwanted donquixotean end result.

Time is not on his if anyone’s side in this or in any other urgent matter in need of a quick fix and sudden change. Time favours slow and deep changes of a character, not fast, situational and tactical ones of the environment a character is operating in. Berry Hill must understand this (basic truth) and make the demanded corrections before the next outing. If he is to be a coach of his formal stature and status.

 

[morkkis35]

Paskanmarja put him in center? It figures this particular coach still tries hard to torpedo the team via stupidity. Did he even follow the career of Granlund in the past 3 years? His production doubled after he was moved from center to wing in Minnesota.

Hasnt he mostly played as a Center in international game or do I remember Wrong? He's been quite successfull in the past in Nationalteam.

 

[Wasted Talent]

Hasnt he mostly played as a Center in international game or do I remember Wrong? He's been quite successfull in the past in Nationalteam.

You remember wrong, he has played on Immonen's or Koivu's wing on the national team. WJC might be the last time he played C on international ice.

 

[Razamanaz]

Ville Pokka.

The hound dog of Finland hockey o' today?

What it seems anyway.

Poor Pokka.

He seems to have to take pretty much lip - and that for no reason at all. In what should/could be the time of his hockey-carrier this far.

Well, he ain't maybe been the perfect ice-skatin' Santa Claus of Finlands' defensive corps so far in the tournament - but then again he ain't been more worse than anyone else back there.

So give that young guy a freakin' break for God's sake, some of you complainers out there!

Who just seems to put the spotlight (and your evil eye) on that spotlight kid.

But complainers complain.

I know. It's their breath of air.

And they seem to love to complain even when there is nothing to complain about; remember ... and do come back when/if disaster strikes the young backbone of Finland.

Coz; everything should be just honky dory and easy livin' for Finland now when they've started this Denmark tournament better than ever and like explosive (Finnish dynamite!) and slaughtered everything that comes their way.

So just cut it cry babies.

 

[FiLe]

You remember wrong, he has played on Immonen's or Koivu's wing on the national team. WJC might be the last time he played C on international ice.

As was said earlier in this thread, he played center in Sochi after Barkov was injured. He also played center in the 2013 WHC when he joined mid-tournament.

And both times, he was more or less our best player.

---

I know MiG has looked a bit underwhelming especially in contrast to Aho, but let's keep in mind that he's only arrived to Europe barely a week ago. So jet lag might be still be an issue. Aho & TT flew over as soon as the regular season ended, and they had two whole weeks to just chill and relax while they were mulling over their decision. So no doubt they've been more ready to take on the challenge.

Give it a few days and a couple of games and Granny's bound to look a lot better. And the same should apply to Rantanen.

 

[kooma 13]

I just wish that they will move Kapanen out of Granlund and Rantanen line. Thats it.

 

[Wasted Talent]

As was said earlier in this thread, he played center in Sochi after Barkov was injured. He also played center in the 2013 WHC when he joined mid-tournament.

I might have forgotten about 2013 but I'm almost certain Immonen was centering Granlund and Selänne in Sochi after Barkov's injury.