Like in those tweets posted to this very thread only three posts up. I naturally thought you were referring to them.
WC: Team Finland
- Thread starter Jarey Curry
- Start date
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No official word yet, but Säteri is considered the designated starter, and they usually get the first game.
QnebO
Wheel, snipe, celly
- Feb 11, 2010
- 9,763
- 644
About the lines:
For once, I like some Marjamäki move, this is really refreshing. Maybe his learning. He clearly has loaded two lines and doesnt care about the two other lines, and thats how it should be done. Rock em star bois let em play and others are pros, they can do that dirty stuff and keep it 0-0 on their part. There is no stopping a line where aho is, if you give him good two other players, the professors going to dominate. Granlund too, pretty much. Teräväinen is going to dominate in big rink with Aho, and theres no stopping kappys speed nowadays, not in the big rink. And Rantanens all around game will complement one of the loaded lines very well. Its just going to be beuatiful.
I think we're now advancing to tear weaker countries apart and everything looks good, unless Marjamäki tries to tell the first two lines how to play, then it could end up bad. But I think he understands the value of a good cup of <shut up and let them play.
For once, I like some Marjamäki move, this is really refreshing. Maybe his learning. He clearly has loaded two lines and doesnt care about the two other lines, and thats how it should be done. Rock em star bois let em play and others are pros, they can do that dirty stuff and keep it 0-0 on their part. There is no stopping a line where aho is, if you give him good two other players, the professors going to dominate. Granlund too, pretty much. Teräväinen is going to dominate in big rink with Aho, and theres no stopping kappys speed nowadays, not in the big rink. And Rantanens all around game will complement one of the loaded lines very well. Its just going to be beuatiful.
I think we're now advancing to tear weaker countries apart and everything looks good, unless Marjamäki tries to tell the first two lines how to play, then it could end up bad. But I think he understands the value of a good cup of <shut up and let them play.
I think that the team is indeed designed to tear the mid level countries apart. We will have less trouble against those type of countries in contrary to the previous years in the form of more scoring from us. This may be a strong team vs Euro top countries as well, which will be our game of death opponent. Sweden would be very hard though but they will win that group so as long as we don't finish 4th in our group and if we can get one of RUS, CZE, SUI or SVK, then I think that we will make it to the semifinal stage.
The weakness is probably vs NA teams with our defense but it's not that big deal since we can't face them in the QF. I still think that Finland will upset one of USA or Canada in the starting group though.
EverybodyLovesRay
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2008
- 636
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He's home in Finland. He needs his rest and full summer of training and getting ready for next season.
BB88
Registered User
- Jan 19, 2015
- 41,758
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He said he's missed the last 2 offseasons for injuries so he wants a healthy offseason for once.
Moving forward get Pokka out and Honka instead on him for pp1. Heiskanen as well needs to get into offensive role.
Could be that Pokka was just Heiskanen's placeholder due to Heiskanen being ill on that PP1 unit and Late saw this as a chance to test Pokka and not mess with the PP2 defensive pairing since they are probably locked.
More likely explanation is that Pokka was picked to that unit because he's a righty. With Heiskanen, that unit would have five lefties. So if there's someone threatening Pokka's spot, it's Honka - and I admittedly was a bit surprised he wasn't there in the first place.
If Heiskanen is going to have room in the PP units, it's Nutivaara who should be making room for him. Alternately, they could play a bit of musical chairs and bump Honka up to PP1, then have Heiskanen - Nutivaara man the blueline in PP2. They'd be losing the matching handednesses, but it'd be lessened by the fact that PP2 still has a RH shot in Kapanen.
kelsier
Registered User
- Aug 17, 2013
- 4,280
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Well the first two periods looked like it was Aho vs the South Korea. The young man was just dominating and doing what he wanted on the ice. Just kind of showed how you do goals with NHL style, meanwhile half the team was just usually scrambling around the net doing something. Luckily there are at least a few guys there who can tap the puck into the net this year. Although the bottom lines are again like grinders. Hadn't seen Kapanen in the lion jersey for such a long time and I was kind of wary of what he could do while remembering all the disappointments in the past. In the first period he had a 2 on 1 with Granlund, who made a fast pass that Kasperi didn't expect at all, and you are kind of supposed to be ready to receive any type of pass on those occasions. But it seemed like he was too slow to even react. He was floating a lot too and some of the problems relating to game awareness were still visible.
Anyway, I think Aho could become even better than S. Koivu was in the prime. What a fantastic and such a complete player. The team getting to the finals will largely be up to his shoulders. Getting gold medal won't be easy for sure.
I'm nearly more interested in the WJHC nowadays than men's world championships. Decided to tune in to see Aho and Rantanen. Both had good games. Perhaps the Jets will drop the Preds out of Stanley Cup and we could luck out with getting Tolvanen (and drop Kapanen to lower lines where he belongs).
Anyway, I think Aho could become even better than S. Koivu was in the prime. What a fantastic and such a complete player. The team getting to the finals will largely be up to his shoulders. Getting gold medal won't be easy for sure.
I'm nearly more interested in the WJHC nowadays than men's world championships. Decided to tune in to see Aho and Rantanen. Both had good games. Perhaps the Jets will drop the Preds out of Stanley Cup and we could luck out with getting Tolvanen (and drop Kapanen to lower lines where he belongs).
That's true. 4 leftie forwards in that unit so it cries for a defenseman who is a rightie.
Late must have had some idea that Pokka is more reliable defensively than Honka which I think is true, but ironically that's exactly how the goal happened with Pokka loosing the puck. I mean the idea being that the 4 forwards would have more space to create their offense, while Pokka would be the better choice to stop any shorthanded goals over Honka.
Pokka loosing that puck against Korea could be just some little cockines against a weak country that wouldn't happen against a top country, I hope. So I don't see any big problem here.
Yeah, I've a feeling too that Pokka is going to stick to PP1, at least for now. Korea's sole goal, while it was all due to Pokka's mistake, can't really be used against him in this regard, since it wasn't a shorthanded one.
If Heiskanen is going to make it to a PP unit, it has to be Nutivaara out and Miro in. As an aside, I noticed Heiskanen getting some PK minutes tonight. While Nutty is not a bad choice for PP either, it'd still kinda feel more logical if their duties were reversed in this sense.
It probably won't happen in the next game though, if Marjamäki insists on having a practice first. Since Latvia is next in a back-to-back, they won't run a full one tomorrow.
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Or they get one lefty forward out from the PP1 and spread a bit the forward wealth to the 2nd PP line, and with that solve the situation with D-men on the powerplay. I would honestly like that, and also Pokka out from the powerplay lines completely. He is pretty much useless there honestly.
Nashville is one Game away from out. But Rinne plays not good Playoffs i think he will Not come and Saros has mi contract. Is there a Chance to get him without a contract?
Rask will Not Come or?
Donskoi was injured
Looks Not good for additions, or?
Rask will Not Come or?
Donskoi was injured
Looks Not good for additions, or?
Loffer
Registered User
- Sep 22, 2011
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Herning, Denmark, WHC and the rejuvenated pack of Lions - this all is music to my old cataract plagued eyes, art to my half-deaf tinning ears if you get the point (in this aspect I somehwo remind of the venerable Jorge from Il Nome della Rosa (the Name of the Rose) who remined in his turn of Jorge Luis Borges, the curious literal illusionist of Latin America with Garden of Forking Paths) Something that seems to rejuvenate and refresh yourself also, crossing over sense modalities and mixing them up with healing effects like coming of spring - or "summer coming over the Starnbergersee with a shower of rain"), "mixing memory and desire" (T.S. Eliot, Waste Land). Mixing not only emotions and senses but also the old dogmas and elements of team building as if in the iconic line "man in the wind and the west moon" (Dylan Thomas, And death shall have no dominion).
So, I salute you, Larry the Lion Hill. Keep the top lines tight and trimmed for scoring. And if possible let Aho play every second shift. Thank you, Thank you for the music visible, and for the art singing in my ears. This is art, music, life and hockey. Thank you.
l'Offer
So, I salute you, Larry the Lion Hill. Keep the top lines tight and trimmed for scoring. And if possible let Aho play every second shift. Thank you, Thank you for the music visible, and for the art singing in my ears. This is art, music, life and hockey. Thank you.
l'Offer
We both know Marjamäki won't start messing up with PP units after a single game where they had no more than two opportunities and went 1/2 (it's also kinda silly to start forming antipathies against someone in so short an order), but I agree, in theory we'd have the necessary pieces for what you suggest. Pluck Granlund and Pokka out of PP1, replace them with Heiskanen and Kapanen, who is not the greatest shot, but his speed and defensive abilities should make him an apt blueliner. Then have Granny running PP2. Shots would have to come from the blueline, though, since Suomela's isn't the greatest either.
As I already said though, we won't see the units getting shuffled, at least not yet. They likely have to add a forward for that. Getting Donskoi (looks unlikely) or Tolvanen (looks somewhat more likely ATM) would no doubt force a round of musical chairs. In case they get neither, even adding Palola might do it, if they aren't happy with the units' performance by then.
Of course, if the main reason for railing against the setups this early is because you want to see Heiskanen in, dumping on Pokka is (again) barking up the wrong tree. The simple and elegant solution is simply to have him and Nutivaara switching duties.
The Cannon of Tesoma
Registered User
^
Yes, it would be absurd to begin tinker with unproven PP-lineups after one game against Korea. Totally irrational start to blame anybody for it's yet unseen performances.
Yes, it would be absurd to begin tinker with unproven PP-lineups after one game against Korea. Totally irrational start to blame anybody for it's yet unseen performances.
The thing is that as long as I have been watching Pokka’s career, it has been obvious to me that he is by no means a very good defenceman. And especially on the power play he just does not have the kind of skills that could seriously help the team. He is also a slow and pretty horrible skater for WHC level and in the big rink, so he is also quite a risk on the power play because of his average puck handling skills that can too easily lead into extremely dangerous turnovers. I have no favorites because of the names that read in their backs, but purely because of whom I think have the skills that benefit team Finland the most. I like both Heiskanen’s and Nutivaara’s skills and skating very much, and I believe that they would help the powerplays work in the best way.
I don’t know what changes Marjamäki is able to do over his stubborness at the moment, but I anyway presented what I simply think as better options. The favoritism towards Pokka is anyway clear, and it has potential to damage the team if it continues long enough. He is that bad for this level of play that he shouldn’t be in the team, let alone playing any powerplays.
You're going too far. Pokka was a member of the silver-winning team in 2016 and was no liability to it at all. He definitely has a place in this team, given we don't have better options available for his player type, like Ristolainen, Vatanen or Hietanen.
What may be an issue is that he constantly has to play in the upper reaches of his talents in his current role. Ideally, he would be a third-pair, all-around defenseman, which is what he was in the 2016 squad. But beggars can't be choosers. He's not hopeless with the puck, after all. So, while I agree in principle that maybe he isn't the ideal player to man the blueline on man advantage, you have no grounds for making claims like "he shouldn't be here at all", when history has very much shown he does have his uses if given the proper role.
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He can play in a limited role so that he benefits the team pretty ok. But the thing is that I don’t believe that Marjamäki will be able to use him like that over his clear favoritism. And anyway I seriously see that there would have been clearly better options for the team. Even though you disagree, I see it so that Jokiharju and Juolevi would have been better options because of their clearly better puck moving skills.
Not every defenceman needs to be a defensively optimal player at their own end, if they can move the puck away quickly and with accuracy. That way the play will not have to be so much at our end to defend in the first place. Also if you seriously think that they would have had too much defensive problems (which I disagree with), just pair them with the most defensively sound defencemen.
Anyway I would have taken even Niko Mikkola, Mikko Lehtonen or Veli-Matti Vittasmäki over Pokka. And If Jani Hakanpää would have been healthy, he would have been my number one option, even ahead of Jokiharju or Juolevi.
Hakanpää would have been a lock to make this team, no question. But there's no point in mentioning him in this context since he wasn't available. Pokka obviously had the rest beat because of his previous experience and more suitable handedness. And Mikkola and Vittasmäki would be no options for Pokka's current role to begin with, so mentioning them is kinda pointless too.
Jokiharju in his current form is a right-handed, slightly less defensively-responsible version of Petteri Nummelin (a trait which I fully expect to improve once he matures), so he definitely would have required sheltering to work. But the coach obviously didn't want to micromanage in regards to when to let him on the ice and when not, so Pokka had him beat from the get-go. What I do agree on is that Jokiharju could have been a better option for PP blueliner than Pokka. But as a reminder for future, if you intend to count Pokka's defensive lapses against him throughout the tournament, it will definitely be hypocritical if you keep on saying you would have preferred Jokiharju.
I have said it numerous times before here, but I will say it again - age and experience should not matter at all, when you have very skilled younger players against mediocre skilled more experienced players. When there is skill enough the youth becomes in fact an asset, because it brings courage and active play to the game. Mediocre skilled but experienced guys kill the game offensively for their own team and cause the team to have to spend more time defending at their own end. This is exactly what players like Pokka cause to the team.
You can try to act like you know these things better than me, but that’s not how it really is. You seem to be exactly a guy for whom Marjamäki is a great coach and does things always right. There we just disagree, and even though he has obviously learned at least something during his time as the national team coach, he is still a weakness for the Finnish national team as long as he is the head coach. It’s about his philosophy mostly that I think that makes him a weak international level coach.
Choosing Pokka to the team and even playing him on the power play is exactly a good example of the weakness that Marjamäki has as a coach. And as you seem to think otherwise then we just simply disagree, like many times before.
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Pokka is 23 years old!He is by no means a worn face, let alone a lost cause. He may never be an NHLer, but he has everything it takes to develop into a reliable top shelf euro d-man who will be an asset to many a WHC team to come.
But at the same time, I can also see he's developing into the Aki Berg/Lasse Kukkonen/Tuukka Mäntylä of his generation, as in a player the Karelia Caps just seem to hate for some incomprehensible reason, but whom multiple NT coaches will still pick to multiple major tournaments.
This is hilarious. Last year at the same time, when were discussing the reasons as to why Marjamäki is bad, I was being told that "he coaches a boring brand of hockey and has lost too many games this season". My counter-argument was, let us see if he can learn from his mistakes, and the games were meaningless EHT ones anyway. And he actually ended the season with somewhat respectable result, being only the third Finnish NT coach - after Hannu Aravirta and Doug Shedden - who managed to win a WHC QF game on his first try. But this wasn't good enough for the retractors, because Marjamäki was still coaching "boring" hockey and had "lost too many games".
Guess what? A year later, Marjamäki has already fixed *everything* people criticized him of back then. The game has been more active and "entertaining" all season, and the NT under him has won about 3/4 of all its games. Finland even won the Euro Hockey Tour for the first time in four years. Even the myth that he can't attract NHLers was soundly debunked. So you'd think his detractors would be happy... noooooo. They still [female dog] and moan about him, and call him the great NT coaching cancer.
It's ridiculous how friggin' irrational some people are. Once you're on their crap list, there's no getting out of it, no matter what you do. I wonder if even winning gold in these games would be enough. Perhaps some would - grudgingly - admit that *maybe* he wasn't such a bad coach after all, but I bet some would still be saying it was because of the players, who managed to win despite the coach.
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He is by no means a worn face, let alone a lost cause. He may never be an NHLer, but he has everything it takes to develop into a reliable top shelf euro d-man who will be an asset to many a WHC team to come.
But at the same time, I can also see he's developing into the Aki Berg/Lasse Kukkonen/Tuukka Mäntylä of his generation, as in a player the Karelia Caps just seem to hate for some incomprehensible reason, but whom multiple NT coaches will still pick to multiple major tournaments.
This is hilarious. Last year at the same time, when were discussing the reasons as to why Marjamäki is bad, I was being told that "he coaches a boring brand of hockey and has lost too many games this season". My counter-argument was, let us see if he can learn from his mistakes, and the games were meaningless EHT ones anyway. And he actually ended the season with somewhat respectable result, being only the third Finnish NT coach - after Hannu Aravirta and Doug Shedden - who managed to win a WHC QF game on his first try. But this wasn't good enough for the retractors, because Marjamäki was still coaching "boring" hockey and had "lost too many games".
Guess what? A year later, Marjamäki has already fixed *everything* people criticized him of back then. The game has been more active and "entertaining" all season, and the NT under him has won about 3/4 of all its games. Finland even won the Euro Hockey Tour for the first time in four years. Even the myth that he can't attract NHLers was soundly debunked. So you'd think his detractors would be happy... noooooo. They still [female dog] and moan about him, and call him the great NT coaching cancer.
It's ridiculous how friggin' irrational some people are. Once you're on their crap list, there's no getting out of it, no matter what you do. I wonder if even winning gold in these games would be enough. Perhaps some would - grudgingly - admit that *maybe* he wasn't such a bad coach after all, but I bet some would still be saying it was because of the players, who managed to win despite the coach.
Did I say that Pokka is old? But he has enormously more experience than Jokiharju or Juolevi whom he is 5 and 4 years older respectively. You don’t think there is a big difference with age and experience between them? But the difference is as big at least skillwise too, just not in the favor of Pokka unfortunately.
And yes Marjamäki is still a weakness for Finland as a coach, even how much you are his fan, it still doesn’t change how it is in reality.
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