WC: Team Finland

[FiLe]

Marjamäki has balls after all with the roster selections and captain selections. I love to see that and I hope it stays this way and no more over coaching during the tournament please.

Marjamäki has never been overly conservative with his player selections. A proponent of the so called "Erkka school" he is not, at least in this regard.

As for lineup predictions, Marjamäki revealed in the media meeting today that he intends to build the top-six around Aho-Teräväinen and Granlund-Rantanen -pairings, meaning the line I kinda wanted to see won't be reality. I'm not awfully disappointed though, since on a closer thought, I guess one of the players even in a line like that would still have to be more defense-oriented than the rest, at least somewhat, so using one of your top scorers for a role like that would be kind of a waste.

That being said, it will be interesting to see who will be the third wheel on both of these pairings. The team will have its first practice tomorrow, so I guess we'll be wiser then. Savinainen didn't look bad last weekend as a complementary player for the Aho-TT duo, but I kinda wonder if Late is still going to keep being bold and put Mäenalanen there.

It also will be interesting to see then how Marjamäki will utilize Kapanen. IMO he's not the perfect player to complement either of aforementioned NHL duos. Again, when I think more closely, he could really be sort of an ideal third line winger. Speedy, with knack for secondary scoring, and useful on PK (he even himself mentioned how he's developed on this in Toronto).

Something like this, p'haps?

Pesonen - Granlund - Rantanen
Mäenalanen - Aho - Teräväinen
Savinainen - Suomela - Kapanen
Jormakka - Niemi - Anttila

Built the top-six on existing chemistries. Line three is technically built out of the "leftover" parts with no existing chemistries to speak of, but I still like its internal rolings. When I was trying to figure who best complements the fourth here, I actually thought, "who of our lineup is most like Pihlström?" Jormakka may not be as physical, but he sure is speedy, not to mention an excellent forechecker. As an additional upside, his scoring knack's somewhat better than Pillu's. He'd be on his off wing here, but he actually did play through most of the camp on the left. Part of Late's master plan?

Another way to build the bottom-six:

Manninen - Suomela - Kapanen
Savinainen - Niemi - Anttila

Throughout the camp, Manninen was more or less a staple to Suomela's wing, so it would be another pair to build upon. They didn't actually produce all that much, but I guess there was some reason our coach liked them together. Not everything is decided after points.

But eh, we'll see tomorrow.

 

[illone84]

@illone84

I'd be quite surprised if they'd decide to lock down the entire team from the get-go. Some may be long shots, but there's technically a potential addition in each of the ongoing series. Besides Nashville and San Jose/Vegas, I'd say there's no reason to see what happens to Pittsburgh and Boston. Määttä and Rask may not appear as probable as some other names, but as long as it's not 100% certain they decline, there's little reason to simply lock them out of the spots.

As for the names you mentioned, well... as was noted above, Donskoi may be injured. He missed the latest game of the ongoing series. His injury was reported as DTD, but even if he does come back, there's a fair chance it's something more serious than what was reported. You don't sit a top-six player in the playoffs for a minor DTD. Personally, I wouldn't be awfully bummed if Donskoi did end up declining though, since in our current roster he'd be more of a luxury than a piece we desperately need. I actually see much more use for Haula. I trust Aho and Granny to be quite apt down the middle, especially on big ice, but a bona fide elite centre would still open a ton of new options.

As for Nashville, Tolvanen looks like the most likely addition. I know I myself mentioned Saros earlier in this thread, but I may not have fully paid mind to the fact that his contract is ending. So the odds of getting him are not radically greater than getting Rinne or Rask, and may even be worse.

They will no doubt leave spots open, perhaps even as many as three skaters and one goalie (initially only adding 2+7+12) but it's a little early to speculate with potential additions. Could be we end up getting nothing, or we end up getting slightly out-of-touch and jet-lagged Tolvanen, or we get a jackpot that includes Rinne, Tolvanen, Haula and Määttä. Or some other permutation that is possible with the players still in their day jobs.

Thanks File for the detailed answer.
Damn, Saaros' contract never crossed my mind. Too bad.

I'm assuming Salomäki's contract is ending this season as well.

Rinne, Tolvanen, Haula and Määttä, would be nice!

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Why are people trying to put Kapanen in our bottom 6?

 

[FiLe]

I'm assuming Salomäki's contract is ending this season as well.

Rinne, Tolvanen, Haula and Määttä, would be nice!

Yeah, Salomäki will be RFA. Then again, I don't really see why they'd even bother with him. If he was with the team now, I wouldn't scoff at him, but when you bring in late-tournament additions, they should be game changers in some way. A fourth line grinder is not such a player, even if he is NHL caliber in his role.

As for the supposed "jackpot", do I actually believe in it? Not really. But ATM, it's still not impossible, and would be damn nice, that goes without question.

Rinne (Säteri)

Nutivaara - Honka
Määttä - Kivistö
Heiskanen - Pokka
Riikola

Tolvanen - Granlund - Rantanen
Aho - Haula - Teräväinen
Savinainen - Suomela - Kapanen
Jormakka - Niemi - Anttila
Pesonen

That would be a very strong gold medal candidate, right there.

 

[FiLe]

Why are people trying to put Kapanen in our bottom 6?

Can't speak for others, but I thought I explained my reasoning pretty well. But let's repeat...

1. He's not the right type to complement either Aho-TT or MiG-Rantanen. (My opinion, will be curious to see if Marjamäki disagrees.)
2. As a player type, he's pretty much a third line winger's prototype. Speedy, not a natural scorer but has decent instincts regardless, and good on PK.
3. Did you even take a look at our player list? It's loaded with offensive skill. Only Niemi and Anttila are your typical fourth liners. Even in the third line, Kapanen would be having some reasonable talent by his side.

 

[Loffer]

Why are people trying to put Kapanen in our bottom 6?

The guy has wheels and energy, not brains or anything like that to a similiar extent. A perfect fit to a bottom 6 role. Might even score a couple while hustling around.

 

[Mestaruus]

Something like this, p'haps?

Pesonen - Granlund - Rantanen
Mäenalanen - Aho - Teräväinen
Savinainen - Suomela - Kapanen
Jormakka - Niemi - Anttila

Built the top-six on existing chemistries. Line three is technically built out of the "leftover" parts with no existing chemistries to speak of, but I still like its internal rolings. When I was trying to figure who best complements the fourth here, I actually thought, "who of our lineup is most like Pihlström?" Jormakka may not be as physical, but he sure is speedy, not to mention an excellent forechecker. As an additional upside, his scoring knack's somewhat better than Pillu's. He'd be on his off wing here, but he actually did play through most of the camp on the left. Part of Late's master plan?

Another way to build the bottom-six:

Manninen - Suomela - Kapanen
Savinainen - Niemi - Anttila

Throughout the camp, Manninen was more or less a staple to Suomela's wing, so it would be another pair to build upon. They didn't actually produce all that much, but I guess there was some reason our coach liked them together. Not everything is decided after points.

But eh, we'll see tomorrow.

In the same interview Marjamäki said that Pesonen will most likely continue as a center, so he probably won't start in the wing of Granny & Rants. There are 5 centers when excluding Mäenalanen so one will be a surplus and of course the easiest one to move from center to wing is Pesonen but something tells me the way he mentioned Pesonen as a center along with Niemi is that he isn't considered as a winger on a top line. A winger with some bottom line is a good possibility though.

If trying to read between the lines, he mentioned Suomela before Pesonen and Niemi when it came to centers. So won't be a shocker to anyone when Suomela is the center of 3rd line in tomorrow's practices. Lastly he said that Mäenalanen will be a center or a wing. So I'm guessing winger first and if injuries happen he can go to center.

My guess for tomorrow's practice lineups & for Korea game:

Kapanen-Granlund-Rantanen
Savinainen-Aho-Teuvo
Pesonen-Suomela-X
X-Niemi-Anttila

So many choices for the X' that I'm not even going to start guessing.

I think that Kapanen & Rantanen will be tested together despite of the U20 chemistry issues. It's not my wish but I think it will be the case. Then they will be separated if it doesn't go as well as they hope and end result when real games start vs Denmark or USA could be something like you/File suggested.

Latvia and Korea will be pieces of cake and can be considered as practice games anyways. It's like a continuation to the previous two EHT weekends which also had back to back games. After that the real games start where DEN & GER are stronger than they usually are.

 

[Razamanaz]

Marjamäki has never been overly conservative with his player selections. A proponent of the so called "Erkka school" he is not, at least in this regard.

As for lineup predictions, Marjamäki revealed in the media meeting today that he intends to build the top-six around Aho-Teräväinen and Granlund-Rantanen -pairings, meaning the line I kinda wanted to see won't be reality. I'm not awfully disappointed though, since on a closer thought, I guess one of the players even in a line like that would still have to be more defense-oriented than the rest, at least somewhat, so using one of your top scorers for a role like that would be kind of a waste.

That being said, it will be interesting to see who will be the third wheel on both of these pairings. The team will have its first practice tomorrow, so I guess we'll be wiser then. Savinainen didn't look bad last weekend as a complementary player for the Aho-TT duo, but I kinda wonder if Late is still going to keep being bold and put Mäenalanen there.

It also will be interesting to see then how Marjamäki will utilize Kapanen. IMO he's not the perfect player to complement either of aforementioned NHL duos. Again, when I think more closely, he could really be sort of an ideal third line winger. Speedy, with knack for secondary scoring, and useful on PK (he even himself mentioned how he's developed on this in Toronto).

Something like this, p'haps?

Pesonen - Granlund - Rantanen
Mäenalanen - Aho - Teräväinen
Savinainen - Suomela - Kapanen
Jormakka - Niemi - Anttila

Built the top-six on existing chemistries. Line three is technically built out of the "leftover" parts with no existing chemistries to speak of, but I still like its internal rolings. When I was trying to figure who best complements the fourth here, I actually thought, "who of our lineup is most like Pihlström?" Jormakka may not be as physical, but he sure is speedy, not to mention an excellent forechecker. As an additional upside, his scoring knack's somewhat better than Pillu's. He'd be on his off wing here, but he actually did play through most of the camp on the left. Part of Late's master plan?

Another way to build the bottom-six:

Manninen - Suomela - Kapanen
Savinainen - Niemi - Anttila

Throughout the camp, Manninen was more or less a staple to Suomela's wing, so it would be another pair to build upon. They didn't actually produce all that much, but I guess there was some reason our coach liked them together. Not everything is decided after points.

But eh, we'll see tomorrow.

 

[Razamanaz]

No way Pesonen in that first-line, bro!

 

[santeri]

Why are people trying to put Kapanen in our bottom 6?

Kapanen, Teräväinen and Rantanen all like to play as RW. Makes sense to keep them in their favorite position + having Kapanen makes the third line much more dangerous

 

[Mestaruus]

Kapanen, Teräväinen and Rantanen all like to play as RW. Makes sense to keep them in their favorite position + having Kapanen makes the third line much more dangerous

While it's a good point, I think it's also very important to keep the NHL forwards in two lines for getting on the same page faster. I'm fine with either way, I just think that Marjamäki will stick them in two lines. When it was first announced that Granny & Aho are centers, day later it was announced that Kapanen is coming to WHC. I'm pretty sure that they already knew about Kapanen joining when they announced Granny & Aho as centers. It would support the idea of Kapanen being in top-6 lines.

The point here is to get the game working as fast as possible because there's not much time so one way to do it is to sacrifice some NHL players' favorite positions and stick them to another position. This was already done by moving Granny and Aho to centers, while they could produce more in the wing so I got no doubts that they would move Kapanen to LW and not get the maximum out of his potential either. He does shoot from the right so LW can't be that bad for him anyways.

 

[Legend Leinonen]

I've also a hunch Kapanen will start in top 6 role. I think it's very possible he has more offensive skill capabilities than some think. He just has not been given chance to showcase those sides of his game in Toronto.

 

[FiLe]

In the same interview Marjamäki said that Pesonen will most likely continue as a center, so he probably won't start in the wing of Granny & Rants. There are 5 centers when excluding Mäenalanen so one will be a surplus and of course the easiest one to move from center to wing is Pesonen but something tells me the way he mentioned Pesonen as a center along with Niemi is that he isn't considered as a winger on a top line. A winger with some bottom line is a good possibility though.

If trying to read between the lines, he mentioned Suomela before Pesonen and Niemi when it came to centers. So won't be a shocker to anyone when Suomela is the center of 3rd line in tomorrow's practices. Lastly he said that Mäenalanen will be a center or a wing. So I'm guessing winger first and if injuries happen he can go to center.

I wouldn't read too much into it. To me, Marjamäki appeared to be commenting the centre situation in general, as in listing options down the middle and trying to convince people that they're not short of capable centres.

If Aho and Granny are confirmed as centres and you think Suomela will be 3C, then Pesonen will still be mainly a winger - or he'll be outside the lineup. Because somehow I doubt he gets the nod for 4C before Niemi. And in such a setup, he could well be one of the top-six pieces.

Or not. If I was running a betting agency, I'd actually give the best odds to Kapanen and Xavi for getting to be the top-six third wheels. It's just that experience has taught me there will be something in the lineup that does not feel like the most obvious solution.

Moreover, Marjamäki said that most of the players already know what are the initial roles intended for them. Which is another reason why it wouldn't be shocking that Kapanen would actually be a bottom-sixer. When they were interviewing him, and got asked what he brings to the team, he emphasized how he intends to bring "speed, good energy, be good on PK". To me, that does not sound like the talk of a player who's slated for a top-six role.

Eh, as fun as it is to speculate, I'm certainly aware how pointless it really is. We'll see tomorrow.

 

[Mestaruus]

When they were interviewing him, and got asked what he brings to the team, he emphasized how he intends to bring "speed, good energy, be good on PK". To me, that does not sound like the talk of a player who's slated for a top-six role.

Rantanen is not a PK guy at all and he's paired with Granlund. Granlund has played PK all season in Minnesota I believe and I expect him to keep doing it so Kapanen does fit there and could form a PK unit with Granny. Pesonen would fit as well and bring more to the PK faceoffs but Kapanen is a NHL player and I do think Marjamäki sticks them together for that reason so I think it's Kapanen-Granny-Rantanen and they break it later on in the tournament if it won't work.

I think that the 3rd line won't form our second PK unit, but two of it's players would form our 3rd option for PK since sometimes games require that if the refs are taking a big role by calling every penalty.

#1 PK: Niemi-Anttila
#2 PK: Granlund+X/Kapanen/Pesonen?

 

[Mestaruus]

Kapteeni Mikael Granlundille kovaa suitsutusta - joka suhteessa Leijonien johtaja:”Huippujätkä ja huippupelaaja”

Marjamäki's last comment here is interesting, that he would would put all NHL star forwards in one basket on PP.

 

[Finlanche]

Kapteeni Mikael Granlundille kovaa suitsutusta - joka suhteessa Leijonien johtaja:”Huippujätkä ja huippupelaaja”

Marjamäki's last comment here is interesting, that he would would put all NHL star forwards in one basket on PP.

Only wierd thing here would be that they all play left and our two best dman(debatable) are also left, so do they go 5 lefties or put Honka on the PP?
Or would he really mean by "all" that they go with 5 forwards with Kapanen also?

 

[FiLe]

Rantanen is not a PK guy at all and he's paired with Granlund. Granlund has played PK all season in Minnesota I believe and I expect him to keep doing it so Kapanen does fit there and could form a PK unit with Granny. Pesonen would fit as well and bring more to the PK faceoffs but Kapanen is a NHL player and I do think Marjamäki sticks them together for that reason so I think it's Kapanen-Granny-Rantanen and they break it later on in the tournament if it won't work.

I think that the 3rd line won't form our second PK unit, but two of it's players would form our 3rd option for PK since sometimes games require that if the refs are taking a big role by calling every penalty.

#1 PK: Niemi-Anttila
#2 PK: Granlund+X/Kapanen/Pesonen?

Granlund - Kapanen does sound like an effective PK pair, but running the primary PK mates in the same line in the regular rotation is usually more or less an afterthought.

And it's not just the PK bit we should get fixated on. Kapanen's whole description of his supposed role in the squad didn't really sound like the talk of someone who's slated for a top-six role. Sure, could be Kapanen was commenting his internal role within his line, but players rarely veer into such minutia - and few are even capable of it.

While it's of course possible and plausible that Kapanen will be in one of the top lines, he doesn't really *have* to be in one of them. And that's actually kinda difficult thought to wrap one's head around, since usually you'd have so little regular NHLers in the team that it would be perfectly natural to presume they get top line postings, even if they're more like middle-six players who provide secondary scoring in their day jobs. We do, however, have so many actual top shelf NHL forwards in this squad that it actually opens the possibility to use Kapanen in a role that's closer to the one in his club team. In fact, it could also explain why Marjamäki felt so bullish about picking a squad like this and leaving so many grinders at home - he figures Kapanen can do all one of them could do... and more.

 

[FiLe]

Marjamäki's last comment here is interesting, that he would would put all NHL star forwards in one basket on PP.

Normally, it'd be the waste of a playmaker to not have Aho and Granlund in separate units, but with a squad like this, it's actually another thing he could afford to do. In such a scenario, he'd still have Suomela for running PP2. And plenty of options to complete the unit. Pesonen, Savinainen, Palola, Mäenalanen...

Only wierd thing here would be that they all play left and our two best dman(debatable) are also left, so do they go 5 lefties or put Honka on the PP?
Or would he really mean by "all" that they go with 5 forwards with Kapanen also?

To me, the "all eggs" obviously refer to TT, Aho, Granlund and Rantanen. The unit would be naturally be complemented by a d-man - most likely Honka, since he's a righty while all the forwards here are lefties.

There will most likely be one d-man in both units. Heiskanen is the safe bet for the other. What's the interesting question is who would be the RH shot in this unit? Kapanen isn't exactly a shooter. Palola feels like the natural choice, but does he have room in the lineup?

 

[Mestaruus]

I'm a bit uneasy about all 4 on same PP unit as well. If Late does this, he really needs to give them that 1 min and 20 secs of PP if there's a good chance for it.

It could be just a way to start the games and see who click the best together. Further on in the tournament drop one of them to the second PP unit and move a right handed man in to PP1.

Tomorrow's practices will tell a lot about PP as well.

 

[Razamanaz]

Antti Suomela, that chap I like a lot. But not only for his hockey skills. Antti is my name ... but I ain't anti against the rest o' the world!

 

[Kaako Kappo]

The guy has wheels and energy, not brains or anything like that to a similiar extent. A perfect fit to a bottom 6 role. Might even score a couple while hustling around.

He's a good finisher and has brains. He has been stuck with 4th line plugs his entire short NHL career. In the Marlies he was THE guy on his team after Nylander left and I'm pretty sure he'll play a top 6 role for the Leafs eventually.

 

[Razamanaz]

Finland have already won both the European Championship (JYP Jyväskylä) and the World Championship U-18 back in Ryssland; and those victories were so both beautiful so. Why not go all the way this time around?

 

[Sanf]

Marjamäki has never been overly conservative with his player selections. A proponent of the so called "Erkka school" he is not, at least in this regard.

As for lineup predictions, Marjamäki revealed in the media meeting today that he intends to build the top-six around Aho-Teräväinen and Granlund-Rantanen -pairings, meaning the line I kinda wanted to see won't be reality. I'm not awfully disappointed though, since on a closer thought, I guess one of the players even in a line like that would still have to be more defense-oriented than the rest, at least somewhat, so using one of your top scorers for a role like that would be kind of a waste.

That being said, it will be interesting to see who will be the third wheel on both of these pairings. The team will have its first practice tomorrow, so I guess we'll be wiser then. Savinainen didn't look bad last weekend as a complementary player for the Aho-TT duo, but I kinda wonder if Late is still going to keep being bold and put Mäenalanen there.

It also will be interesting to see then how Marjamäki will utilize Kapanen. IMO he's not the perfect player to complement either of aforementioned NHL duos. Again, when I think more closely, he could really be sort of an ideal third line winger. Speedy, with knack for secondary scoring, and useful on PK (he even himself mentioned how he's developed on this in Toronto).

Something like this, p'haps?

Pesonen - Granlund - Rantanen
Mäenalanen - Aho - Teräväinen
Savinainen - Suomela - Kapanen
Jormakka - Niemi - Anttila

Built the top-six on existing chemistries. Line three is technically built out of the "leftover" parts with no existing chemistries to speak of, but I still like its internal rolings. When I was trying to figure who best complements the fourth here, I actually thought, "who of our lineup is most like Pihlström?" Jormakka may not be as physical, but he sure is speedy, not to mention an excellent forechecker. As an additional upside, his scoring knack's somewhat better than Pillu's. He'd be on his off wing here, but he actually did play through most of the camp on the left. Part of Late's master plan?

Another way to build the bottom-six:

Manninen - Suomela - Kapanen
Savinainen - Niemi - Anttila

Throughout the camp, Manninen was more or less a staple to Suomela's wing, so it would be another pair to build upon. They didn't actually produce all that much, but I guess there was some reason our coach liked them together. Not everything is decided after points.

But eh, we'll see tomorrow.

I agree with most of in here. I know that people speculate that they would try to find old chemistry with Mäenalanen and Teräväinen. I would still rather put Savinainen on that line. First didn´t like the idea of Pesonen in first line, but thinking it more if there is some player who can get best out of him its Granlund. I mean Granlund managed to to fool people and make old Selänne look the best player in 2014 olympics. Pesonen may not be the player that he was 5 years ago, but he is not wild card on this level.

Suomela. Talking about wild cards. I liked what I see from him this season but this is still big step. Complitely agree everything that you have said about Kapanen. Third line is the hardest one. I guess I would go with Manninen on the other wing. 4th line seems good like that...

 

[illone84]

Donskoi looks pretty good here.

Hope we can get him or Haula!

 

[santeri]

updated guess on lines:

Palola - Granlund - Rantanen
Savinainen - Aho - Teräväinen
Mäenalanen - Suomela - Kapanen
Pesonen - Niemi - Anttila
extras: Jormakka, Manninen