Olympics: Team Canada 2018 Roster discussion

[habsrule4eva3089]

Once Duncan Keith retires there will be no more elite left hand dman in the nhl that is Canadian.

We went from

Niedermayer
Pronger
Keith

to

Keith
Vlasic
Bouwmeester

to

Keith
Vlasic..

and then in 2022

Who knows, the next generation just isn't any good. I agree with the notion 2018 is the last Olympics for maybe a decade if not more that we will see a Canadian team that can DOMINATE.

We'll have to enjoy it, it'll never be like this again for a very long time. This is truly the peak during the Golden Era for Canadian Hockey.

 

[86Habs]

Once Duncan Keith retires there will be no more elite left hand dman in the nhl that is Canadian.

We went from

Niedermayer
Pronger
Keith

to

Keith
Vlasic
Bouwmeester

to

Keith
Vlasic..

and then in 2022

Who knows, the next generation just isn't any good. I agree with the notion 2018 is the last Olympics for maybe a decade if not more that we will see a Canadian team that can DOMINATE.

We'll have to enjoy it, it'll never be like this again for a very long time.

Jay Bouwmeester will only be 39 years old in 2022, and probably good for another whirl as an elder statesman.

(Only half kidding)

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Jay Bouwmeester will only be 39 years old in 2022, and probably good for another whirl as an elder statesman.

(Only half kidding)

Lol well Niedermayer still had his legs at 37 during 2010 so who knows lol.

If only Bouwmeester can stay 30 forever, he was a complete beast in Sochi, his game was made to play on an Olympic surface.

 

[86Habs]

Pietrangelo can play the left side effectively (he did so at the World Cup), Rielly will be in strong consideration for a role on future teams (post-2018) and Ryan Murray could be a good depth defensive d-man for us. Or, when Babcock moves on whoever the future head coach is might not care quite as much as Babcock did about the LHS/RHS split.

 

[xxxx]

If NHL players do compete in S. Korea next year, enjoy it, as it will be the final best on best tournament that Canada will play as the odds on favorite. and odds on favorite is not a guarantee of winning anything.

That is insane. The 2020 World Cup will likely have another peak for Canada, and it won't much different in 2022. I say that the gap between Canada and the world be even wider by that time.

The main age group for 2022 olympics will be players who are now 18-25 (and will be 23-30 by that time). In this age group, Canada is blowing everyone out of the water offensively, and defensemen are maybe not miles ahead, but still overall better and deeper.

 

[1Gold Standard]

That is insane. The 2020 World Cup will likely have another peak for Canada, and it won't much different in 2022. I say that the gap between Canada and the world be even wider by that time.

The main age group for 2022 olympics will be players who are now 18-25 (and will be 23-30 by that time). In this age group, Canada is blowing everyone out of the water offensively, and defensemen are maybe not miles ahead, but still overall better and deeper.

I said best on best. gimmicky World Cups or any other of the formats the NHL has planned for their international agenda don't count.

and I don't agree with your overall talent assessment of where things will be by 2022 and there are a few others who don't agree with you as well.

so, we'll just have to wait and see and hope we do get true best on best tournaments to judge where things really stand come 2022.

 

[xxxx]

I said best on best. gimmicky World Cups or any other of the formats the NHL has planned for their international agenda don't count.

Since when is not the classic WC (without Europe and NA) best-on-best for you?

and I don't agree with your overall talent assessment of where things will be by 2022 and there are a few others who don't agree with you as well.

That's fine. But the thing is that Canada has the edge in the players that are now 18-25, and will be 23-30 in 2022. Like, a clear edge. The rest of those rosters will be filled up with few youngsters (from drafts 2017-2021), but even more spots will be filled with players who are now 26+ and will be 30+ in that time. So, players like Kane, Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos, Doughty, Pietrangelo, etc. In this age category Canada has also quite clear edge. So I'm not sure how could any nation come close in that olympic tournament in 5 years, let alone overtake our number one position. If someone has any arguments for it, I would really like to hear it.

 

[xxxx]

Once Duncan Keith retires there will be no more elite left hand dman in the nhl that is Canadian.

We went from

Niedermayer
Pronger
Keith

to

Keith
Vlasic
Bouwmeester

to

Keith
Vlasic..

and then in 2022

Who knows, the next generation just isn't any good. I agree with the notion 2018 is the last Olympics for maybe a decade if not more that we will see a Canadian team that can DOMINATE.

We'll have to enjoy it, it'll never be like this again for a very long time. This is truly the peak during the Golden Era for Canadian Hockey.

Canada is fine.

There is a lot of LH-ed talents for the future: Rielly, Murray, Brodie, Nurse, Morrissey, Theodore, Sanheim, Bealieau, Chychrun, Matheson, Chabot, H.Fleury...I wouldn't be afraid to say that in 2022, we'll be having three real-star defensemen on the left side.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Marchand Crosby Bergeron
Benn Getzlaf Seguin
Toews McDavid Carter
Tavares Scheifele Stamkos
Giroux O'Rielly

Keith Weber
Vlasic Doughty
Pietrangelo Burns
Murray Letang

Price
Holtby
Crawford

 

[chunkylover53]

Pietrangelo can play the left side effectively (he did so at the World Cup), Rielly will be in strong consideration for a role on future teams (post-2018) and Ryan Murray could be a good depth defensive d-man for us. Or, when Babcock moves on whoever the future head coach is might not care quite as much as Babcock did about the LHS/RHS split.

Marchand Crosby Bergeron
Benn Getzlaf Seguin
Toews McDavid Carter
Tavares Scheifele Stamkos
Giroux O'Rielly

Keith Weber
Vlasic Doughty
Pietrangelo Burns
Murray Letang

Price
Holtby
Crawford

What's Ryan Murray doing there? guys like Rielly, Gio, Brodie, Muzzin will be lefties that make it before him.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

What's Ryan Murray doing there? guys like Rielly, Gio, Brodie, Muzzin will be lefties that make it before him.

Tough call, but his defensive game is very impressive and he is the main minute muncher on one of the top teams in the league right now. His performances for the rest of the year and playoffs will determine his selection.

He was more impressive then Rielly during the latter games at the Worlds as well.

 

[xxxx]

Tough call, but his defensive game is very impressive and he is the main minute muncher on one of the top teams in the league right now. His performances for the rest of the year and playoffs will determine his selection.

He was more impressive then Rielly during the latter games at the Worlds as well.

In my opinion Rielly was better at both, the World Championships and World Cup, but it's good to have two good young defensemen.

 

[xxxx]

I just wish Canada could send two teams....it hurts me to not have so many great players on the team...

Team Red

Brad Marchand - Sidney Crosby - Patrice Bergeron
Jamie Benn - Tyler Seguin - Mark Stone
Eric Staal - Ryan Getzlaf - Corey Perry
Rick Nash - Ryan O'Reilly - Wayne Simmonds

Jake Muzzin - Drew Doughty
Jay Bouwmeester - Brent Burns
Mark Giordano - Kris Letang

Braden Holtby, Corey Crawford


Oh, so you think there can't be another, similarly good team? That would be crazy, right?


Team White

Logan Couture - Connor McDavid - Mark Scheifele
Taylor Hall - Claude Giroux - Steven Stamkos
Matt Duchene - Jonathan Toews - Jeff Carter
John Tavares - Jason Spezza - Mitch Marner


Duncan Keith - Shea Weber
Marc-Edouard Vlasic - Alex Pietrangelo
Morgan Rielly - P.K. Subban

Carey Price, Devan Dubnyk


Ok, but wait. There is no way you could create another solid team, that could perhaps win a medal, right? Right? Wrong.

James Neal - Joe Thornton - Jordan Eberle
Sean Monahan - Ryan Johansen - Nathan MacKinnon
Jaden Schwartz - Nazem Kadri - Tyler Toffoli
Jonathan Drouin/Jeff Skinner - Kyle Turris - Sam Reinhart
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

T.J. Brodie - Brent Seabrook
Ryan Murray - Aaron Ekblad
Ryan Ellis - Travis Hamonic
Tyson Barrie
Colton Parayko

Marc-Andre Fleury, Roberto Luongo, Martin Jones/Matt Murray


Snap.

 

[chunkylover53]

Guys like Perry and Getzlaf might be on their way out...doesn't hurt to transition from the old to the young...don't want guys to overstay when the young ways are outperforming ala 2006.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron
Benn - McDavid - Seguin
Tavares - Carter - Stamkos
Hall - Toews - Mackinnon
Stone, O'Rielly

Keith - Weber
Vlasic - Doughty
Pietrangelo - Burns
Subban - Letang

Price
Holtby
Dubnyk

 

[drewstar]

Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron
Benn - McDavid - Seguin
Tavares - Scheifele - Stamkos
Couture - Toews - Carter
Duchene

Keith - Burns
Vlasic - Letang
Pietrangelo - Doughty
Weber

Price
Holtby
Dubnyk

 

[xxxx]

Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron
Benn - McDavid - Seguin
Tavares - Scheifele - Stamkos
Couture - Toews - Carter
Duchene

Keith - Burns
Vlasic - Letang
Pietrangelo - Doughty
Weber

Price
Holtby
Dubnyk

Funny, I have been thinking about this line as well. For now, Getzlaf has that spot and Scheif is the 13th forward, but things can change. I also like the new looks of those D pairings. If it was up to me though, I would probably go with both Subban and Letang, or at least one of them, because of their skating and game-breaking abilities, and leave Pietrangelo home, and took Rielly instead, who is also great skater. It's also important to include young blood for the future, to get him used to the game-play of such a team so he's fully comfortable next time when he's going to be playing more important roles. That's also the reason why I look at including a player like MacKinnon or Marner up front, because I'm fairly certain that Marner will be a big and importat player for Canada one day, and there is hopefully still a chance of MacKinnon breaking through and being the 90point superstar he can certainly be. Inclusion to such a team could help him.

 

[drewstar]

Funny, I have been thinking about this line as well. For now, Getzlaf has that spot and Scheif is the 13th forward, but things can change. I also like the new looks of those D pairings. If it was up to me though, I would probably go with both Subban and Letang, or at least one of them, because of their skating and game-breaking abilities, and leave Pietrangelo home, and took Rielly instead, who is also great skater. It's also important to include young blood for the future, to get him used to the game-play of such a team so he's fully comfortable next time when he's going to be playing more important roles. That's also the reason why I look at including a player like MacKinnon or Marner up front, because I'm fairly certain that Marner will be a big and importat player for Canada one day, and there is hopefully still a chance of MacKinnon breaking through and being the 90point superstar he can certainly be. Inclusion to such a team could help him.

Assuming we have an OLY w/ NHLers on the big ice, skating will be at a premium and Letang absolutely should be one of the top 3 RHD in that case. Weber's speed is declining but I have a feeling the TC brass will include him anyway.

Rielly would also be my choice to get the 3rd LHD spot if they don't opt to play Pietrangelo in that role.

I paired Letang with Vlasic as the perception is that he is the weakest on the defensive side of things among Burns/Doughty/Letang.

MacKinnon is someone I gave serious consideration as a top 13 forward but at this point in time, does he bring anything to the table that would supercede Bergeron/Seguin/Stamkos/Carter other than youth and speed? If he had been more productive in Colorado this year I would have included him but that has not been the case.

TC hates Subban barring a regime change that doesn't include Babcock. And if a new RHD was to step in it'd likely be Letang, with Ekblad also getting consideration along with Subban.

 

[JackSlater]

TC hates Subban barring a regime change that doesn't include Babcock. And if a new RHD was to step in it'd likely be Letang, with Ekblad also getting consideration along with Subban.

How do we know that Hockey Canada dislikes Subban? We can guess that Babcock doesn't like him that much, but that's about it. Subban is a bit unlucky in that he has had to compete against the by far the strongest crop of right handed defencemen any country has had in hockey history, all while Canada is coached by someone who has a strong preference for defencemen playing on their strong sides.

A guy who should be getting serious consideration for any editions of team Canada at this point is Stone. I wouldn't call him a lock for a position at the highest level or anything, but he is a serious competitor depending on what Hockey Canada wants.

 

[1Gold Standard]

How do we know that Hockey Canada dislikes Subban? We can guess that Babcock doesn't like him that much, but that's about it. Subban is a bit unlucky in that he has had to compete against the by far the strongest crop of right handed defencemen any country has had in hockey history, all while Canada is coached by someone who has a strong preference for defencemen playing on their strong sides.

A guy who should be getting serious consideration for any editions of team Canada at this point is Stone. I wouldn't call him a lock for a position at the highest level or anything, but he is a serious competitor depending on what Hockey Canada wants.

not a lock yet, but damn...do I love where his game is at. Based on his level of play he should be replacing Bergeron as Sid's RWer if Patrice doesn't show signs of recovery...and soon. On my depth charts Bergeron has fallen to B Team 3rd.line center, but he does get the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

[JackSlater]

not a lock yet, but damn...do I love where his game is at. Based on his level of play he should be replacing Bergeron as Sid's RWer if Patrice doesn't show signs of recovery...and soon. On my depth charts Bergeron has fallen to B Team 3rd.line center, but he does get the benefit of the doubt for now.

He's up there. I liked Stone at the WC last year and he's been consistently good this year and the last two seasons. I would still give Bergeron the benefit of the doubt right now, as he is still the best defensive forward in hockey, has some proven chemistry with locks and has been better than his numbers indicate, but Stone is getting really close. Another issue for Stone is that Carter is having a very elite season.

 

[86Habs]

He's up there. I liked Stone at the WC last year and he's been consistently good this year and the last two seasons. I would still give Bergeron the benefit of the doubt right now, as he is still the best defensive forward in hockey, has some proven chemistry with locks and has been better than his numbers indicate, but Stone is getting really close. Another issue for Stone is that Carter is having a very elite season.

I honestly don't see Stone as a replacement for Bergeron in the short-term. While Stone is unarguably having the better offensive season and is probably the best player I've ever seen at creating neutral zone turnovers and stealing pucks, Bergeron is still on a higher level than him in terms of defensive play, penalty killing, and driving possession. Bergeron also offers the RHed faceoff balance on Crosby's line that allows the coaching staff to deploy that line in any game situation (strangely, the best Canadian faceoff men - Crosby, Toews, Duchene, O'Reilly, Thornton - are all LHed). As you said, Carter is having a monster season, so if NHLers do participate in South Korea Stone's best best (imho) is to outperform someone like Duchene, O'Reilly, Couture or MacKinnon for a bottom six/13th/14th forward role.

He's certainly in the mix for me. I personally like Scheifle and his 2-way game and C/RW versatility for a roster spot, and am intrigued by what MacKinnon can do on the larger ice surface. Based on performance, though, Stone merits very strong consideration.

 

[JackSlater]

I honestly don't see Stone as a replacement for Bergeron in the short-term. While Stone is unarguably having the better offensive season and is probably the best player I've ever seen at creating neutral zone turnovers and stealing pucks, Bergeron is still on a higher level than him in terms of defensive play, penalty killing, and driving possession. Bergeron also offers the RHed faceoff balance on Crosby's line that allows the coaching staff to deploy that line in any game situation (strangely, the best Canadian faceoff men - Crosby, Toews, Duchene, O'Reilly, Thornton - are all LHed). As you said, Carter is having a monster season, so if NHLers do participate in South Korea Stone's best best (imho) is to outperform someone like Duchene, O'Reilly, Couture or MacKinnon for a bottom six/13th/14th forward role.

He's certainly in the mix for me. I personally like Scheifle and his 2-way game and C/RW versatility for a roster spot, and am intrigued by what MacKinnon can do on the larger ice surface. Based on performance, though, Stone merits very strong consideration.

Stone is in tough on the right side as things are crowded on that front. Bergeron, Seguin, Carter, Stamkos, Stone, MacKinnon, Scheifele, maybe to a lesser degree Giroux seem like Canada's RW candidates. Everyone has issues. Bergeron and Carter are now in their 30s and presumably will regress before long. Seguin and especially Stamkos can have trouble staying healthy. MacKinnon is in a toxic situation in Colorado and doesn't bring anything defensively. Stone is slow. Scheifele has pretty limited experience in big games and isn't a great skater at this point. There is more to it than that, but to me Stone is firmly in the mix, especially because I can see him as a guy who can fit in on any line.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Burns most be a lock. 64 points in 60 games, big and physical.

Played good in WCH and WC.

He has been legit for several years now.

 

[GetThePuckOuttaHere*]

Young guns the old guys may be checking over their shoulder for in 2018, and perhaps looking up to in 2022, Who have a fair chance to burst out, that fit the "Team Canada" speed and determination game fairly well: Domi, Monahan, Hamilton, MacKinnon, Huberdeau, Ekblad, Toffoli (one of several of these guys hit by a down year this year), Dumba, Johansen, Henrique, Ceci, Couturier, Brayden Schenn, Matt Murray, Parayko, Drouin, Marner, Reilly, Horvat, Scheifele.

Other potential 2022 players (Nolan Patrick, Joe Veleno, etc. not withstanding): Chychrun, Steel, Dubois, Jost, Bean, Chabot, Strome, Reinhart, Bennett, Mantha, Barzal, Beauvillier, Konecny, Fabbri, Morrissey.

Also, please don't pass over Brodie again...

And, lastly, everyone seems to hate on them, and the stats show why, but every time I see Darnell Nurse and Ryan Murray play, they're one of the best defenders on the ice. I guess I've only seen their good games.